Vikings Game Continues To Show Basic Pattern for Redskins

[bulldog]

Line play is critical in the NFL. You can't win without major and continuing investment in both the OL and DL.

Where the Redskins have lost games this year by and large it has been to teams that had a dominant inside DT or an OL that could establish a consistent run game.

The Rams, who are still a talent bare team in some areas, DO have a front seven that can rush the passer. The Lions likewise are limited, but have a solid defensive front.

The Redskins were beaten in both contests because of individual DL making plays against our OL and QB.

Today, you could point to the Banks run of course. But the Redskins are so limited right now that with or without that run we scratched out 13 points against a team that gave up 31 last week.

We ran for 30 yards. We allowed the qb to get hit how many times?

The Redskins are 5-6 and are going to have a real dogfight on their hands to get to 8-8 to finish out the season.

Blame Perry Riley or the officials or the bad bounce of the ball off the Santana Moss drop, but the bottom line is you can look at the offensive and defensive statistics (just like you can in the NBA) and see in a second why this team lost, and continues to lose these types of games.

[GoDeep81]

We also continue to make stupid mistakes.. Even if the team is talentless, I was expecting Shanny to demand desciplined play, at the very least.. But game after game we still have silly false starts and game deciding blocks in the back.. Stuff that players who have thier head in the game, shouldn't make.. I guess were so banged up noone is scared of loosing their job??

[bulldog]

a lot of these mistakes are the result of a talent gap. guys are holding or failing to execute on the offensive line because they are not big enough, strong enough, quick enough or experienced enough to make the play.

in the case of Moss and Armstrong I think we are talking about players who are ideally suited to being #2 and #3 receiver or even #3 and #4 on a contending team.

we are expecting them to beat #1 and #2 corners consistently.

on defense the Redskins weren't able to stop the Vikings on that last drive and get the ball back to the offense when 41 year old Brett Favre was able to roll out and bootleg for 10 yards!

a faster defense with younger players running side to side would NEVER have allowed a 41 year old guy with stress fractures in his foot to beat them for a first down that far down field.

[Dead Money]

Thank you Bulldog. Once a team feels out both our OL and DL they adjust and take advantage where the glaring advantages occur. And they're numerous. The line play is horrendous on both sides of the ball and everybody crying about the skill guys are out of their minds. McNabb's not helping things, but thats a whole nuther subject. Trent Williams could be great or a turd. Surrounding him with more talent to demand greatness would be a great start, the path we're on now doesnt look good.

However, we have some "fast" players on defense... Too many of them (cough Orakpo...cough Macintosh) biting on fakes and play action is what caused that old man first down run. They bite all the time.

Doughty was the primary reason for at least 6 plays in this game that lead to scores or big first downs. He's not an NFL safety, he may have been at one time, but not anymore. Safety is a mess this year.

[ABSTRACT]

Thank god a thread was made that analytically breaks this debacle down. I just hope that we do the right things in the offseason. We make the same mistakes every year..it's pretty hilarious. The basics of football are ignored. It's also hilarious that the position of the game that got us three superbowls is ignored every offseason (the O-line). A franchise that has a legacy because of the HOGS should keep OL (and DL) at #1 priority. Shanny did try by bringing in Trent Williams and J. Brown so hopefully he continues this offseason by scouting the best big uglies out there.

The priorities (through FA and Draft) should be Center, Guards, DEs, NT, OLB, and WR!!!!

[bulldog]

My suggestion would be to DRAFT offensive and defensive linemen and SIGN runners or receivers in free agency.

The odds of drafting wide receivers is not great league-wide and I would prefer to pay for a capable younger veteran WR who is sure to produce rather than a rookie.

We simply need younger talent across the board on the OL and DL.

At this point it should be best position available along the lines.

DT/NT is a huge problem on defense. Center and OG are poor on offense. Right tackle is also a potential need area.

[Newera]

The mistake is that this team should had committed to the youth movement from the get go. They are finally realizing it's at max a .500 team.

[SMOSS89]

My suggestion would be to DRAFT offensive and defensive linemen and SIGN runners or receivers in free agency.

The odds of drafting wide receivers is not great league-wide and I would prefer to pay for a capable younger veteran WR who is sure to produce rather than a rookie.

We simply need younger talent across the board on the OL and DL.

At this point it should be best position available along the lines.

DT/NT is a huge problem on defense. Center and OG are poor on offense. Right tackle is also a potential need area.

I have a feeling that's what they will do in the offseason. Just a hunch

[SWFLSkins]

This should be required reading before posting, one can dream.

[Destino]

It's all on Dan Snyder that while every one thinks he's made a change continues to show a lack of vision. The fact that Shanahan is the lead guy in the front office shows that nothing has changed. He still doesn't get that the coaches are interchangeable pieces and that the NFL is not college football with coach built "programs". The team needs to have an identity above the head coach and the coaches need to be chosen that conform to that identity. That is how you avoid having a roster that needs a complete over haul each time a new coach comes in. Martyball to Pitch and Catch to Gibbs smash mouth to Zorn's trickery to Kyle's new age. Every coach brings an entirely new identity to the franchise. Why? Marty wanted control, Spurrier didn't, Gibbs did, Zorn didn't, Shanahan does. A different vision at the top constantly.

Snyder can do all the interviews he wants on ESPN but until he finds the stones to step up and say our team is THIS and hiring everyone beneath him to conform to that vision this team will be good only for short bursts if lucky.

[GoDeep81]

It funny how the threads with any rational thought get < double digit posts, while the "bash" threads get page upon page.. Im guilty of it myself, but I at least try to post in both.

[chipwhich]

You can't draft lineman if you trade picks. Same ol same ol.

It started with Portis and continued through McNabb and Brown.

Same thing every year.

If they draft oline or dline they are usually 5th, 6th, or 7th round scrubs.

[skinpride1]

You are correct we need a high caliber O and D line period!!!!!!!

But for whatever reasons this has been nothing to the front office.

Only one good pick on Trent Willams in a very long time.

[SkinsHokieFan]

The talent gaps are very evident. Today however there was a serious lack of execution which cost the Redskins a very winnable game

Next week the Giants will end any hope the Redskins had of making the playoffs

[Andre The Giant]

Line play is critical in the NFL. You can't win without major and continuing investment in both the OL and DL.

Where the Redskins have lost games this year by and large it has been to teams that had a dominant inside DT or an OL that could establish a consistent run game.

The Rams, who are still a talent bare team in some areas, DO have a front seven that can rush the passer. The Lions likewise are limited, but have a solid defensive front.

The Redskins were beaten in both contests because of individual DL making plays against our OL and QB.

Today, you could point to the Banks run of course. But the Redskins are so limited right now that with or without that run we scratched out 13 points against a team that gave up 31 last week.

We ran for 30 yards. We allowed the qb to get hit how many times?

The Redskins are 5-6 and are going to have a real dogfight on their hands to get to 8-8 to finish out the season.

Blame Perry Riley or the officials or the bad bounce of the ball off the Santana Moss drop, but the bottom line is you can look at the offensive and defensive statistics (just like you can in the NBA) and see in a second why this team lost, and continues to lose these types of games.

Completely agree with your assessment. It seemed like the Vikes were running 5 yards evry first down, we were maybe getting 2. Farve had time to pass most of the game. McNabb was dropped with a four man rush.

Tough to complete passes when your QB has no time.

We need to rebuild the lines.

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

Yep.

The first two picks need to be used on linemen, one on each side of the ball.

Address WR in FA and get younger on the lines.

[fish]

We also continue to make stupid mistakes.. Even if the team is talentless, I was expecting Shanny to demand desciplined play, at the very least.. But game after game we still have silly false starts and game deciding blocks in the back.. Stuff that players who have thier head in the game, shouldn't make.. I guess were so banged up noone is scared of loosing their job??

Today was all coaching - lack thereof. If he can get his team to respond after that Monday Night prison rape, he should have been able to get them to perform against the almost dead, thoroughly dysfunctional Vikings - simple as that. Weh one or two players play poorly - it's on the player. When pretty much everybody plays as bad asthey did today, it's on the coaching staff.

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

The Vikings are more talented than their record.

Really, are we that delusional that we think we're better than this Vikings team, even with AD out of the line-up?

The Vikings have better lines and better skill players. If they had a better QB and hadn't been stuck with a terrible coach most of the season, they'd be a legit playoff contender.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Great post. I think we have about half an OL right now (starters and depth). I think that Williams, Brown, Montgomery, and Lichtensteiger are keepers for a role on the OL. I think MAYBE two of them are starters...Williams is one, obviously. That means that we'll need to continue to draft OL. As for DL, depending on how creative the play-calling will be and how Haynesworth finishes the season, you could make the case that we have a few contributors there too (Haynesworth, Carriker, Kemo maybe). However, I think you could really use a few more studs there too.

I'd love to see this team make a concerted effort to draft OL and DL for two years. Obviously, they can't spend every draft pick there...but it would be nice to add one very good starter on each side of the ball over the next two years (for a total of 2 new starting OL and 2 new starting DL). If we get to that point, I think we will be much more capable of holding our own against some teams and actually beating others in the trenches.

[MumboSauce]

Agreed as much as the team lacks speed and playmakers at the skill position, the biggest problem is the o line, in run blocking and pass protect, and second is the D line ie generating a pass rush with your down lineman without blitzing, and being able to stop the run. They struggle, Kemo is terrible. Orakpo is not a linebacker, Love big Phil but he's done, Andre Carter makes 1 play a game and stinks the rest of it looking lost. The rest are marginal. Fletcher won't hold up much longer he's getting older.

[Rocky21]

Line play is critical in the NFL. You can't win without major and continuing investment in both the OL and DL.

Where the Redskins have lost games this year by and large it has been to teams that had a dominant inside DT or an OL that could establish a consistent run game.

I don't know how so many people (some whose last name is Shanahan) fail to grasp this elementary concept.

[Seabee1973]

You can't draft lineman if you trade picks. Same ol same ol.

It started with Portis and continued through McNabb and Brown.

Same thing every year.

If they draft oline or dline they are usually 5th, 6th, or 7th round scrubs.

sometimes you need to develop those talents those are a lot of times you money guys the guys that can come in and anchor lines for a few years for some reason the skins think they need all stars and first round draft picks at every single position

[skinsfan1523]

I don't know how so many people (some whose last name is Shanahan) fail to grasp this elementary concept.

How exactly does shanahan fail to see this? He brought in many new o line men in the offseason and said it was his number 1 priority to fix it. Rome wasn't built in a day people, damn. I'm willing to give him 3 years to see if were getting better, I will not judge him off this crap we have this year. Stop acting like it's super bowl or bust this year, cause it's not.

[PorkSkins]

It will take three years or more to build an O line. A player here or there doesn't add up to consistency. They need to play together as a unit. The D line is different. You can plug a couple of dominant DE or DT in the line and make a difference. Look at Detroit with Suh and Vander Bosch. It's going to be a slow painful process. I'll give credit to Shanny and Allen for putting a product on the field that has been competitive. But to put it in perspective, 7-9 was my expectation before the season. I hope we don't strike next year because the schedule looks a lot easier. This year has been tough.

[LetThePointsSoar]

Thanks for the dose of sanity, bulldog. Agreed completely, and like many said, I also agree that Shanny fully gets it- hopefully we continue to address improvements to the trenches this offseason and improve that much more going into next season.