Is Sanatana done?

[darrelgreenie]

He isn't close to done. He's just not a #1 wide out.

Moss is ideal in the slot right now. Armstrong looks like he can develop into a #2 but the guy is incredibly inconsistent. He got caught jogging on a go route today and dropped a few balls. For those wondering why McNabb can't seem to hit him in stride look at that jogging play and tell me if you can accurately predict where the hell he's going to be on any given play.

We need to draft a #1 like Dez Bryant has been for the cowboys. Sadly that is hard as hell to come by so, pray. lol

I don't think Moss is ideal for the slot because he lacks the toughness to make catches over the middle, and he doesn't catch well in traffic.

He's Steve Smith without the hands and physicality and anger.

This is how i see Moss: an outside the numbers WR, average hands, he's dynamic after the catch he's the quintessential 'get the ball in space WR' and can take it the house on any one of these simple routes a bubble screen, hitches, a go route.

He's good on vertical routes and vertical double moves: post routes, corner routes, post-corner, stcick-nod he's decent on some deep comebacks and the occasional deep dig/in

I don't think he tracks the ball well when he's in motion nor is great at out jumping a DB for the ball. He's a much better receiver when's essentially stationary gets to look at the ball coming in then runs after the catch.

But like many WRs he's also inconsistent.

But when Moss is featured in the routes he's good at in high volume he can be a top tier WR: 84-1,483-17.7- 9 TDs -in Gibbs offense w/ Brunell throwing him the ball

79-1,044-13.2-6 TDs w/ Zorn and Campbell

[addicted]

Andre Johnson is 100x the WR santana is, so stop.

Who are we supposed to compare WR's to when someone says that Moss isn't getting the job done? Sure Andre Johnson is the better WR and he is the best WR in the game today but Moss gets no respect from some people like you and it makes me sick. 100x times better? If I were Moss I'd leave this year since his own fans think so poorly of him like you. If you are the 11th ranked WR in the game today then you are a number one WR and just because your not tall doesn't mean your not playing like one. Shanny has said it before and I agree. Moss is a number one WR. So I'm not going to "stop" anything and I think after several seasons with 1500 yards and this year that you'd be able to see that. And this post comes a week after he helped us win last week with his 106 yards and TD performance.

That being said, Moss should be a #2, but he's pressed into being our #1 because there aren't other options at this point. We just need at TRUE #1 WR.

We have a "true WR" and his name is Santana Moss. What we need is someone to step up as the number two WR. Who do we have doing that? Armstrong with his 23 catches on the year, with his zero games with 100 yards and only 3 games with over 50 yards receiving? The same problem facing the WR's this year has been here every year. We don't have a number 2 WR to compliment Moss and that limits the entire team. I do think we would be very potent with Moss and someone like Jackson or Rice to compliment each other but no one on this team this year has steped up to take that number 2 spot. If you want to put the problems of the WR's on the players or team then blame the stubbornness of the team to not replace Galloway sooner and forcing Armstrong and Austin to produce or for McNabb throwing too much to Galloway or for not targeting Armstong more.

*I still laugh at the fact that during the preseason, Joey T. said Moss had some of the best hands he's ever seen....hahahahahaha...homerism at it's finest.

Moss is 11th in catches in the league, his hands are fine. He's human and made a few bad plays today. No one in the league is sure handed to never do that. This is a huge over reaction

[darrelgreenie]

Armstrong with his 23 catches on the year, with his zero games with 100 yards and only 3 games with over 50 yards receiving? The same problem facing the WR's this year has been here every year. We don't have a number 2 WR to compliment Moss and that limits the entire team......If you want to put the problems of the WR's on the players or team then blame the stubbornness of the team to not replace Galloway sooner and forcing Armstrong and Austin to produce or for McNabb throwing too much to Galloway or for not targeting Armstong more.

I agree completely with the above.

But Armstrong could be our No.2 WR if he got the targets of a No.2 WR instead his targets were poached by Joey Galloway.

I put that on Kyle and the offensive staff for putting Old man Joey on the field in crucial situations.

McNabb is gonna throw to the open WR and whenever Joey G is on the field he's gonna be open because the defense is gonna cover everyone else.

[BadKarma]

Pretty sure we restructured the Moss deal to extend through 2013 but he is on a cap friendly deal meaning we can cut him in the offseason if we need to.

Regarding bringing Moss back; I think he still has something left in the tank, hell if Galloway can still play at 40 then Moss should be kept around if anything because he is an adequate mentor for the youth we have at WR. I am firmly on board with drafting a WR next season assuming we have access to one of the studs, Jones or potentially Green if we can move up.

[addicted]

I agree completely with the above.

But Armstrong could be our No.2 WR if he got the targets of a No.2 WR instead his targets were poached by Joey Galloway.

I put that on Kyle and the offensive staff for putting Old man Joey on the field in crucial situations.

McNabb is gonna throw to the open WR and whenever Joey G is on the field he's gonna be open because the defense is gonna cover everyone else.

Completely agree. What we don't see is how these guys perform in practice with McNabb. Before coming here McNabb was known as a QB who threw the ball to different WR's every year. It was almost a crap shoot trying to figure out who McNabb would throw the ball to the most every year. So my question is why hasn't McNabb gone to Armstrong more like he went to DeSean Jackson and others in years past? Is that on him or the coaches? If it's on the coaches what aren't they seeing in practice to make this happen? If it's on McNabb then what's missing thats stopping trust from building with these guys? The one thing I know is that isn't on Moss

[bulldog]

Moss is not the player at 31 that he was at 26 when the Redskins acquired him.

But he is not the reason why the Redskins are 5-6.

Better play on the OL would give McNabb more time in the pocket and more accurate passing by McNabb would mean more catches for #89.

Moss caused the turnvover today and has been inconsistent at times. But there have also been times he has been open and the ball sailed over his head.

[AzSkinsFan63]

The biggest problem with Moss is that he does not catch the ball with his hands, he always tries to catch it against his body. Moss is always going to drop a few but he is still a valid receiver.

[RonArtest15]

Who are we supposed to compare WR's to when someone says that Moss isn't getting the job done? Sure Andre Johnson is the better WR and he is the best WR in the game today but Moss gets no respect from some people like you and it makes me sick. 100x times better? If I were Moss I'd leave this year since his own fans think so poorly of him like you. If you are the 11th ranked WR in the game today then you are a number one WR and just because your not tall doesn't mean your not playing like one. Shanny has said it before and I agree. Moss is a number one WR. So I'm not going to "stop" anything and I think after several seasons with 1500 yards and this year that you'd be able to see that. And this post comes a week after he helped us win last week with his 106 yards and TD performance.

We have a "true WR" and his name is Santana Moss. What we need is someone to step up as the number two WR. Who do we have doing that? Armstrong with his 23 catches on the year, with his zero games with 100 yards and only 3 games with over 50 yards receiving? The same problem facing the WR's this year has been here every year. We don't have a number 2 WR to compliment Moss and that limits the entire team. I do think we would be very potent with Moss and someone like Jackson or Rice to compliment each other but no one on this team this year has steped up to take that number 2 spot. If you want to put the problems of the WR's on the players or team then blame the stubbornness of the team to not replace Galloway sooner and forcing Armstrong and Austin to produce or for McNabb throwing too much to Galloway or for not targeting Armstong more.

Moss is 11th in catches in the league, his hands are fine. He's human and made a few bad plays today. No one in the league is sure handed to never do that. This is a huge over reaction

What 1500 yard seasons are you talking about? He's a good WR...but NOT a true #1. Take the B&G colored glasses off for a second and think about it. There are major problems w. our receiving corps and Moss is a part of it. He's forced into being our "#1" because of the ridiculous lack of talent at that position. He is putting up good #'s but aside from Cooley, who else is McNabb going to throw to? And it's not a huge overreaction, because he has had some bad drops in the past. There was a point where you could argue that he WAS a #1 WR...that's not the case in 2010. The WR situation needs to be addressed, and I hope that there are changes made going into the 2011 season. As it stands right now, we have one of the worst overall groups in the league.

[addicted]

Pretty sure we restructured the Moss deal to extend through 2013 but he is on a cap friendly deal meaning we can cut him in the offseason if we need to.

You sir are correct:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=nfl&id=867

Contract Information for Santana Moss

5/5/2005: Signed a six-year, $31 million contract. The deal included $11 million in bonuses, all of which were paid in the first two seasons. A $2.955 million "signing" bonus was added to the contract in 2009 in exchange for Moss agreeing to reduce his base salary. 2010: $968,500 (+ $3.3315 million "signing" bonus), 2011: $1.192 million (Voidable Years), 2012: $1.4155 million, 2013: $1.639 million, 2014: Free Agent

Regarding bringing Moss back; I think he still has something left in the tank, hell if Galloway can still play at 40 then Moss should be kept around if anything because he is an adequate mentor for the youth we have at WR. I am firmly on board with drafting a WR next season assuming we have access to one of the studs, Jones or potentially Green if we can move up.

We have limited draft picks and WR is so hit or miss in this league. I think our best bet is to sign Jackson to a friendly deal we can get out of if he can't stay sober. I hate his two DUI's but the fact is we need a tall speedy WR to spread the field, Moss to move to the 2 spot, and a possession tough guy to play the slot.

[StillUnknown]

not close to being "done"

he's just not close to being a true #1 WR, of course this has been known for some time now

[addicted]

What 1500 yard seasons are you talking about? He's a good WR...but NOT a true #1. Take the B&G colored glasses off for a second and think about it. There are major problems w. our receiving corps and Moss is a part of it. He's forced into being our "#1" because of the ridiculous lack of talent at that position. He is putting up good #'s but aside from Cooley, who else is McNabb going to throw to? And it's not a huge overreaction, because he has had some bad drops in the past. There was a point where you could argue that he WAS a #1 WR...that's not the case in 2010. The WR situation needs to be addressed, and I hope that there are changes made going into the 2011 season. As it stands right now, we have one of the worst overall groups in the league.

At least he's producing. It's like you just said, the lack of production at that position. This happens every year for us. Moss and Cooley are our receiving threats. You'd think by now that Shanny/Allen would have found someone they like besides Joey Galloway right? Why did it take so long for us to replace him when we had no problem dumping those old RB's earlier in the year. Had we established Armstrong earlier in the year then it would have opened the field more for everyone else. Instead we don't use them as we should and make the defense's job easier. Too much time and chances were wasted on Galloway and that hurt us

[RonArtest15]

At least he's producing. It's like you just said, the lack of production at that position. This happens every year for us. Moss and Cooley are our receiving threats. You'd think by now that Shanny/Allen would have found someone they like besides Joey Galloway right? Why did it take so long for us to replace him when we had no problem dumping those old RB's earlier in the year. Had we established Armstrong earlier in the year then it would have opened the field more for everyone else. Instead we don't use them as we should and make the defense's job easier. Too much time and chances were wasted on Galloway and that hurt us

I agree w. what you are saying....A lot of these problems are inherited due to how the roster was constructed before Allen/Shanny came on. They can only do so much with what they have, but there was NO point to having Galloway on the roster for this long. He was unproductive, and I would have much rather seen a guy like Austin get a shot earlier on than in week 11. Galloway had no future in DC, and even with the jury being out on a guys like Austin, Banks, Armstrong, etc...I think most of us would have been OK with these young guys taking their lumps early on and learning the nuances of the position. There are a TON of holes on this roster. I still think that O-Line is the most pressing need through either the draft or FA. If McNabb is our guy going forth, he needs to be protected. He's proven that in his time in Philly he doesn't need world-beaters at the WR spot to be successful. He needs time to throw. I just hope that our scouting department does their due diligence and properly evaluates some of the WR's coming out in the 2011 draft (Austin Pettis, Terrance Tolliver, Leonard Handerson, or Greg Little come to mind....since we're probably not going to use our 1st rounder on a WR). Hopefully we can get a body in here who can help sooner rather than later.

[NoCalMike]

Moss is caught in-between a rock and a hard place. The guy is not a true #1, but he is forced into the role season after season because this franchise has not found a real legit #1. Moss had one season, in 2005, where he played like a #1 WR, but he is not strong enough and lacks the size to beat the double team besides the rare occasion a secondary gives him the freedom to just burn by them on a post route.

It really comes down to whether he will continue to be worth the money he is set to make in the future, which I have no idea what it is.

It would be hard to see him go, because I honestly feel that if we had a legit #1 & 2 WR....Moss would be a huge mis-match for team's #3 cornerback.

[MDstar08]

This thread is a joke....ugh

[Redskins Reparations]

He is one of the few players on this team that could be traded for a draft pick. I think there would be a team out there to trade at least a 4th...possibly a 3rd.

[Skins3000]

I think this thread is an over reaction. Moss is not done but I do not think Moss is a number 1 more or less our number 2 and Armstrong emerging and hopefully a free agent pick up next year or a talented young wr in the draft.

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

He is the 11th ranked WR in the game today. Is he done? Are you serious!!!!

He had a bad game. At least he didn't get ejected from his game for beating someone up. And while I'm mentioning the Andre Johnson who is argued as the best WR in the game today Santana had more yards then AJ did in weeks 1, 3, 4, 5, and week 11 this year. He isn't done, he's human

The problem with Moss is that he makes mistakes that vets shouldn't make, and the mistakes appear to be tied to a lack of focus.

No one expects him to be Jerry Rice every game, but it is annoying that he has a few games like this every year--games where he doesn't appear to have his head in the game.

He's a veteran and such lack of focus is unacceptable.

He also acted like a complete bonehead several times in the Zorn era, like celebrating some meaningless TD against the Bengals and drawing a flag in the process.

[jfr3ek]

Ya lets part ways with him already. Im tired of these over the hill university of miami bums. Portis and moss are both done. Bring on the youth movement already. Our playoff hopes are over.

[grego]

Not done but cant be counted on for much anymore, drops a ton of passes at this point and gets no YAC anymore either

this. and its not just him. we have NOBODY on the team who can get YAC.

Dude please gimme 3 competent sentences on how AA has played better than santana??

i dont think its such a crazy statement. AA makes plays that i would expect santana to make (like holding onto the ball when getting decked- that was huge). seriously, week in and week out, i see AA doing pretty well, and santana looking 'less well', if that makes sense.

The biggest problem with Moss is that he does not catch the ball with his hands, he always tries to catch it against his body. Moss is always going to drop a few but he is still a valid receiver.

i noticed that today, too. i think thats why that ball was picked- tried to catch it against his body but it was too high.

who else could we have brought in to play wr?

Randy moss? So he could take plays off?

Vincent Jackson? So we could trade draft picks and give everybody on es anuerysms? (sp)

tj housh? So he could be useless?

T.o.? So he and mcnabb can take kindergarten jabs at each other??

Santana is not the problem dude

but none of that means that santana is doing well- it just means that those other guys arent the answer.

in summary, i think a few things that are indisputable are that- he drops too many balls, doesnt catch with his hands, gets NO yac for a guy whose supposed to have wheels, and is 31. i'd say there is reason to think he is on the downside of his career.

[SKINSFAN87]

Not blaming this loss on him at all, but shouldn't your No.1 receiver rise to the occasion a lot more than he has this season? I hate when McNabb throws him the ball. Something bad always seems to happen. He almost plays like he doesn't care.

Isn't his contract up after this season? He'' probably get another fat contract from Snyder just because he likes him.

Santana was a big part of why we lost this game along with perry riley. A huge dropped pass that would have converted a third down and bounce off of the pads for a pick. The skins need to stop annoiting this guy as some sort of savior. I think he is a long shot of being on this team next year, and if stays i'd say that he should be told that he maybe the third receiver on this team at best. The guy is a has been.

[RandyHolt]

most of mcnabbs short passes are off target. If just a little bit, i see it over and over. I dont know if the INT was a perfect throw (one that moss has to get) but i will say I bet it was enough off target to throw Moss off. I hate that route to Moss, I like seeing him used deep more than as a possession guy, in space where he can use his legs to get to balls, not cat like reflexes needed to get the DM off target short pass.

[grego]

most of mcnabbs short passes are off target. If just a little bit, i see it over and over. I dont know if the INT was a perfect throw (one that moss has to get) but i will say I bet it was enough off target to throw Moss off. I hate that route to Moss, I like seeing him used deep more than as a possession guy, in space where he can use his legs to get to balls, not cat like reflexes needed to get the DM off target short pass.

i agree that i see too many passes that are just a little off. but that one to moss was not on mcnabb. any WR that uses his hands to catch- and not his body- catches that one. he jumped up to try to catch it with his chest and since it was too high for that kind of catch, it hits him in his cranium.

not a perfect pass, but if you get paid to catch the ball, its a 100% catchable NFL pass.

[IrepDC]

Cooley continues to drop passes in key situations too. I say key, because it's usually a drive killer. I'm not sure what's up with these veteran guys not being reliable.

[WALL-LE]

who else thinks ryan Fitzpatrick is a beast. We should trade Mcnabb and sing Fitzpatrick.

[grego]

Cooley continues to drop passes in key situations too. I say key, because it's usually a drive killer. I'm not sure what's up with these veteran guys not being reliable.

true. like santana, seems like every week theres one that makes you go 'huh?'.