Why does it all come down to race with ESPN reporter Jemele Hill?

[Tweedr01]

Anyone who thinks that racism in society and the NFL is in the reaview mirror is fooling themsleves. As someone who heard many Redskin fan call Doug Williams NI**** in RFK you can stop with that talk.

Are you seriously trying to bring up something that happened almost 30 years ago to make this story relevant? lol, this is what keeps this stuff going. stop pulling the race card and guess what.....people will take it seriously when it is really racial. all this does is create a boy cried wolf mentality and it will make people downplay a situation where race is actually involved.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Thanos, all due respect, but the opinions of a few ignorant fans in 1989 does not confirm that black QBs are being benched by coaches who need to win games due to the color of their skin in 2010.

[Mr. Sinister]

Are you seriously trying to bring up something that happened almost 30 years ago to make this story relevant? .

Situations like that still happen to this day, but yes, it is not relevant in this instance when it comes to coaches.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

People like Hill do nothing but stir the pot. She deserves all the ridicule she receives on her comments. It's not like people view her as anything but a racial homer anyway.

[Predicto]

She may be obsessed with this subject, but I kind of think that you guys are dismissing this issue too readily.

I am pretty sure that a part of the problem that McNabb faced from the angry Philly fans named Vinny was racial, and not just due to coming close but not quite winning a championship. Not all of it, but some. Early in his career John Elway got Denver close to a ring, but never quite got one. Nevertheless, he was a virtual god in Denver for his whole career, long before Terrell Davis finally got him a ring. Same with Jim Kelly in Buffalo, and Fran Tarkenton in Minnesota, and Dan Marino in Miami, and Dan Fouts in San Diego and plenty of others. All came close, none got there, all were beloved anyway. McNabb was an perennial all-pro who was treated like a borderline bum - and I think we all know why.

Anyhow, this point can be overstated (especially if we are talking about headcase Vince Young) but I would not be so quick to dismiss it completely and get mad at a writer who wants to discuss it.

[No Excuses]

In the 14 seasons since the Tenessee Titans moved from Houston, they've had a black starting QB for 13 of them, and this is an organization that has a problem with black QBs?

I do find it interesting that Carson Palmer has not been labelled an underachiever, but then again, neither was McNair who never actually won anything in his 13 year career. All I remember the media saying about him was that he was one tough SOB (which I happen to agree with, by the way.)

And let's not suggest Brett Favre's antics haven't caught up with him. Anyone read Sally Jenkins' piece today?

Carson Palmer isn't free of criticism. I have a lot of family that lives in Ohio and all my cousins who are Bengals fans are absolutely sick of him and so is that entire city. IMO he won't be coming back next year and I don't think Marvin Lewis will either. You just don't hear about it because nobody cares about Cincinnati lol.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

She may be obsessed with this subject, but I kind of think that you guys are dismissing this issue too readily.

I am pretty sure that a part of the problem that McNabb faced from the angry Philly fans named Vinny was racial, and not just due to coming close but not quite winning a championship. Not all of it, but some. Early in his career John Elway got Denver close to a ring, but never quite got one. Nevertheless, he was a virtual god in Denver for his whole career, long before Terrell Davis finally got him a ring. Same with Jim Kelly in Buffalo, and Fran Tarkenton in Minnesota, and Dan Marino in Miami, and Dan Fouts in San Diego and plenty of others. All came close, none got there, all were beloved anyway. McNabb was an perennial all-pro who was treated like a borderline bum - and I think we all know why.

Anyhow, this point can be overstated (especially if we are talking about headcase Vince Young) but I would not be so quick to dismiss it completely and get mad at a writer who wants to discuss it.

McNabb was booed when he was drafted because the Philly fans wanted....Ricky Williams. That's not exactly a check mark in the "racist" category. Beyond that, I'm sure the FAN reaction to black players will always have a small racial element to it. But that is what it is. There are probably just as many black fans who hate seeing white RBs/WRs on their teams too. Ignorance is certainly still out there among fan bases, but it's a very small part of it.

Do you believe that coaches include race in their decisions to play/bench players in the NFL right now?

[Predicto]

McNabb was booed when he was drafted because the Philly fans wanted....Ricky Williams. That's not exactly a check mark in the "racist" category.

I'm not talking about the initial drafting. I'm talking about ten years of never warming up to a guy who won two thirds of his games and led them to the playoffs every single year.

Beyond that, I'm sure the FAN reaction to black players will always have a small racial element to it. But that is what it is. There are probably just as many black fans who hate seeing white RBs/WRs on their teams too. Ignorance is certainly still out there among fan bases, but it's a very small part of it.

Do you believe that coaches include race in their decisions to play/bench players in the NFL right now?

No. But I think they subconsciously include fan reaction and owner reaction in their decisions. Overt racism is gone in sports. But overt racism is not the only thing that can happen.

[Bang]

Anyone who thinks that racism in society and the NFL is in the reaview mirror is fooling themsleves. As someone who heard many Redskin fan call Doug Williams NI**** in RFK you can stop with that talk.

As for Vince Young its more being a pampered athlete his entire professional career including his time at Texas. Its obvius that his spuuort system has failed him.

As for Ms. Hill I commend her for her courage for calling this out. Her comments section has been filled with douchebag vitriol for her entire tenure, but hey she pulled the race card.

Racism does not go away cuz a few ES posters says so.

The probloem is that Jemele hill writes of nothing in the real world.

She writes about millionaires. She writes about people who live charmed lives, and who earn more in a year than 90% of America.

In all honesty, can you find me another corporate entity of the size of the NFL that has as many minority millionaires? There's a little over 1500 players in the league, the majority of which are black, and none of them make under $400,000 a year.

I'd lay dollars to donuts you can't, unless it's from another professional sports league.

Winning is what matters. Yes, i'll say it. Racism in the NFL is a thing of the past. The fans are another story, but we're not talking about the idiots in the crowd. We're talking about the people who make the decision to bench Campbell, or to put Young on IR when he's torn a ligament in his throwing hand. A coach who allows race to cloud his judgment does not stay a coach for long.

~Bang

[Predicto]

Winning is what matters. Yes, i'll say it. Racism in the NFL is a thing of the past. The fans are another story, but we're not talking about the idiots in the crowd. We're talking about the people who make the decision to bench Campbell, or to put Young on IR when he's torn a ligament in his throwing hand. A coach who allows race to cloud his judgment does not stay a coach for long.

~Bang

I agree to a point, but again, conscious, intentional racism is not the only issue. I try my damnedest to be colorblind, but when I am walking down the sidewalk and that group of young black men comes around the corner, I start thinking about crossing to the other side of the street.

I'm sure NFL guys try too, but they are just as much prisoners of their background and subconscious mind as the rest of us.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

No. But I think they subconsciously include fan reaction and owner reaction in their decisions. Overt racism is gone in sports. But overt racism is not the only thing that can happen.

Winning is what matters. Yes, i'll say it. Racism in the NFL is a thing of the past. The fans are another story, but we're not talking about the idiots in the crowd. We're talking about the people who make the decision to bench Campbell, or to put Young on IR when he's torn a ligament in his throwing hand. A coach who allows race to cloud his judgment does not stay a coach for long.

~Bang

Predicto, I agree with Bang his point that I quoted above directly addresses your point. If a GM or coach is letting fan reaction/race enter into his decision-making, he's not going to be a GM or coach for long. Even if it did, you're arguing such a small percentage of the decision-making process, that I believe it to be negligible.

You're basically saying that a very small faction of the Raider fans (for example) prefer that Campbell be benched because he's black. So, when the Raider management is deciding who to start at QB, if fan reaction is being weighed in a small way, then a minuscule percentage of a very small factor in the decision has ANYTHING to do with race...and it's indirect. I would think the exact same prejudice would exist when the Browns decide to start Hillis at RB...

[TheLongshot]

I agree to a point, but again, conscious, intentional racism is not the only issue. I try my damnedest to be colorblind, but when I am walking down the sidewalk and that group of young black men comes around the corner, I start thinking about crossing to the other side of the street.

I'm sure NFL guys try too, but they are just as much prisoners of their background and subconscious mind as the rest of us.

If they look like toughs, I'd be nervous if they were black, white, hispanic or any other race. If they don't, I wouldn't feel any more nervous than normal. Most discrimination nowadays has more to do with class than race. It just happens that many blacks and hispanics are in the lower classes.

[Thanos]

The probloem is that Jemele hill writes of nothing in the real world.

She writes about millionaires. She writes about people who live charmed lives, and who earn more in a year than 90% of America.

In all honesty, can you find me another corporate entity of the size of the NFL that has as many minority millionaires? There's a little over 1500 players in the league, the majority of which are black, and none of them make under $400,000 a year.

I'd lay dollars to donuts you can't, unless it's from another professional sports league.

Winning is what matters. Yes, i'll say it. Racism in the NFL is a thing of the past. The fans are another story, but we're not talking about the idiots in the crowd. We're talking about the people who make the decision to bench Campbell, or to put Young on IR when he's torn a ligament in his throwing hand. A coach who allows race to cloud his judgment does not stay a coach for long.

~Bang

All players in the NFL are not millionaires Ask those guys brought up on the practice squad?

I'm still perplexed why Redskins fans are so hung up on drama on the other team?

[adam@section118]

The probloem is that Jemele hill writes of nothing in the real world.

She writes about millionaires. She writes about people who live charmed lives, and who earn more in a year than 90% of America.

In all honesty, can you find me another corporate entity of the size of the NFL that has as many minority millionaires? There's a little over 1500 players in the league, the majority of which are black, and none of them make under $400,000 a year.

I'd lay dollars to donuts you can't, unless it's from another professional sports league.

Winning is what matters. Yes, i'll say it. Racism in the NFL is a thing of the past. The fans are another story, but we're not talking about the idiots in the crowd. We're talking about the people who make the decision to bench Campbell, or to put Young on IR when he's torn a ligament in his throwing hand. A coach who allows race to cloud his judgment does not stay a coach for long.

~Bang

Thank you.

People are quick to sream racism, but if any owner as dumb/stupid/whatever else you want to add here enough to let race get in the way of football decision he or she will not be a coach, gm, or executive for long.

This article is almost as annoying as the guy on CNN who brings race up any time sports are discussed.

Is racism gone? NO. We still have a lot of work to do However, to cry racism is alive and well today is the NFL is a bit of a joke. A damn shame that we can not discuss sports without these ignorant racism colums popping up year after year. Lord forbid these athletes be benches because of poor games (or injuries) and not becuase they are black, white, green, purple or pink.

The only color owners care about is green. If the teams are not winning, you will see changes, regardless of race.

[adam@section118]

If they look like toughs, I'd be nervous if they were black, white, hispanic or any other race. If they don't, I wouldn't feel any more nervous than normal. Most discrimination nowadays has more to do with class than race. It just happens that many blacks and hispanics are in the lower classes.

I agree. I think classism (is that is word) is more common, and least from what I have seen (granted at a young age that is how many young people measure success and failure)

All players in the NFL are not millionaires Ask those guys brought up on the practice squad?

I'm still perplexed why Redskins fans are so hung up on drama on the other team?

Serious question, how much do those guys make?

I know guys riding the bench start at 300K or 400K, IDK abour practice squad guys.

I would still argue they make more then most people, though one could argue they spend more time traveling and trying to get try outs....but that is a discussion for another thread

[TD_washingtonredskins]

All players in the NFL are not millionaires Ask those guys brought up on the practice squad?

That proves nothing. His point was not that every single player was a millionaire. It was that over 1500 of them are making 400K or more (extremely wealthy). Sure, there are probably 200 guys making whatever PS members make, but that's a small minority.

I'm still perplexed why Redskins fans are so hung up on drama on the other team?

What do you mean by that?

[Bubble Screen]

Any thoughts or feedback from the article she wrote on how the black qbs are being treated in the NFL currently...and how they would be treated if they were white.

I rarely even watch when she's on First Take. I can't stand her and her stupid 'takes'. She's awful. She makes Skip look like a genius.

[Kosher Ham]

Racism in sports in this day in age ?

It does not exist.

The black reporters that champion this line of thought are idiots.

Never liked her and never likely will.

Teams/Coaches/Players/Owners... want wins not issues.

She is stupid. I think there are certain people like Sweet Sassy (apologize if I am wrong) and Bang who are offended by her forcing fake issues. Her mindset does not even make sense.

[Major Harris]

I try my damnedest to be colorblind, but when I am walking down the sidewalk and that group of young black men comes around the corner, I start thinking about crossing to the other side of the street.

that's hilarious.

so do you include white kids with baggy pants, wife beaters and tattoos in your irrational fear bank? i'm pretty sure cjcdaman would have you jaywalking.

[Kosher Ham]

Thanos, do you even realize how much these practice squad guys make ?

They are pushing 6 figures. Not millionaires, but enough to set themselves up for the future.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

that's hilarious.

so do you include white kids with baggy pants, wife beaters and tattoos in your irrational fear bank? i'm pretty sure cjcdaman would have you jaywalking.

I'm white and I'm more concerned when I see someone who looks as you describe than if I see a black guy. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[#98QBKiller]

I agree to a point, but again, conscious, intentional racism is not the only issue. I try my damnedest to be colorblind, but when I am walking down the sidewalk and that group of young black men comes around the corner, I start thinking about crossing to the other side of the street.

I'm sure NFL guys try too, but they are just as much prisoners of their background and subconscious mind as the rest of us.

This sounds like a generational issue to me. I've always heard older people (no offense) talk about the infamous "crossing the street so you don't have to walk past a black person" situation. I have yet to even think about crossing the street when I see anyone, and I've definitely never seen it happen in real life.

Also, I disagree with the notion of trying to be colorblind. Noticing someone is a particular race doesn't make you a racist anymore than noticing someone is the opposite sex makes you a sexist.

What makes you a racist or a sexist is having preconceived notions about someone because of their race or sex and/or believing that your race/sex is inherently superior and/or having hatred/assumptions/intolerance of someone because of their race/sex .Obviously it stretches far beyond that, but that's it in a nutshell, IMO.

[#98QBKiller]

that's hilarious.

so do you include white kids with baggy pants, wife beaters and tattoos in your irrational fear bank? i'm pretty sure cjcdaman would have you jaywalking.

:ols::ols:

[Predicto]

that's hilarious.

so do you include white kids with baggy pants, wife beaters and tattoos in your irrational fear bank? i'm pretty sure cjcdaman would have you jaywalking.

No, not really. And that's the point. I should be just as subconsciously scared of those guys, but I'm not.

I'm an ordinary human being and I have flaws. One of those flaws is subconscious assumptions about minorities, things that I realize are false when I consciously think about them.

[Major Harris]

No, not really. And that's the point. I should be just as subconsciously scared of those guys, but I'm not.

I'm an ordinary human being and I have flaws. One of those flaws is subconscious assumptions about minorities, things that I realize are false when I consciously think about them.

i think it's a generational thing you old fart.