Why does it all come down to race with ESPN reporter Jemele Hill?

[Bang]

All players in the NFL are not millionaires Ask those guys brought up on the practice squad?

I'm still perplexed why Redskins fans are so hung up on drama on the other team?

Seriously? Practice squad?

Practice squad is a guy not good enough yet. How much does he deserve? Practice Squad players make just under 90,000 dollars per year. Their minimum salary is $5200 per week. To PRACTICE. If they get signed to a rookie contract, the minimum they can make is $255,000 per year.

I wonder how many of them think that's just not enough? Especially considering if they don't make it, the team has paid them 90k for nothing.

That is GRAVY.

I think Jemele hill would do herself a favor if she either

A/ wrote about real racism that affects real people in the real world, and not this phony baloney made up potshot crap for people who have succeeded.

B/ wrote about the NFL as a success story in terms of how it treats minority employees. Because it most certainly is, and as I said before, you'd be hard pressed to find another company with such a record.

Instead she comes off as a bitter woman screeching her own racism in a place it doesn't belong. She doesn't have a valid argument, no matter how much she or anyone else wants to pretend they do because of racism out here away from that insulated and affluent world.

Considering the players are majority black men, if this racism existed, they have a strong enough voice to make it known. If all the black men in the NFl decided to strike because of racist practices, the league would be paralyzed. It's not 1952 anymore.

But they never bring it up. Ever. Are they afraid of being ostracized? Penalized for speaking out? Not likely, they're in the majority and they hold all the cards. They don't play, the league suffers massively. So why doesn't it ever come up? It only ever comes up in writers like Jamele Hill, who has a predisposition to see everything thru the prism of race.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Redskins fans,, other than we're all Redskins fans discussing this article,, on the board set aside for non-Redskins talk.

~Bang

[Mr. Sinister]

This sounds like a generational issue to me. I've always heard older people (no offense) talk about the infamous "crossing the street so you don't have to walk past a black person" situation. I have yet to even think about crossing the street when I see anyone, and I've definitely never seen it happen in real life.

Also, I disagree with the notion of trying to be colorblind. Noticing someone is a particular race doesn't make you a racist anymore than noticing someone is the opposite sex makes you a sexist.

What makes you a racist or a sexist is having preconceived notions about someone because of their race or sex and/or believing that your race/sex is inherently superior and/or having hatred/assumptions/intolerance of someone because of their race/sex .Obviously it stretches far beyond that, but that's it in a nutshell, IMO.

This is pretty much how I see it also:

Stereotyping = fear, misguided assumptions, discomfort, etc.

Racism = hatred, violence, there really is no gray area

[Predicto]

You're basically saying that a very small faction of the Raider fans (for example) prefer that Campbell be benched because he's black. So, when the Raider management is deciding who to start at QB, if fan reaction is being weighed in a small way, then a minuscule percentage of a very small factor in the decision has ANYTHING to do with race...and it's indirect. I would think the exact same prejudice would exist when the Browns decide to start Hillis at RB...

That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that ALL people subconciously do not relate as easily to people of a different color as well as they do to people that look like themselves, and it does have some effect on their decisionmaking process.

[Predicto]

i think it's a generational thing you old fart.

Could be. We old people are scared that brown people are going to mug us.

You young'uns just think that brown people stole your jobs.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that ALL people subconciously do not relate as easily to people of a different color as well as they do to people that look like themselves, and it does have some effect on their decisionmaking process.

Well, I guess I'm saying that IF that is the case (for the sake of argument I'll concede the point that it's possible), I think it plays such a small role that it is overruled by winning or success when it comes to NFL coaches. To put it bluntly, I can't think of a situation (and certainly not the 3 that she pointed out in the article) in the NFL today where I think race played a role in a black player being benched. I don't think there is currently a white QB unjustifiably playing ahead of a black QB in the NFL. If you do believe so, please make the argument. Or else, it seems like people are attempting to say that it's "feasible" that "at some point" race could factor into a decision which seems like a useless argument to make.

[Tweedr01]

She may be obsessed with this subject, but I kind of think that you guys are dismissing this issue too readily.

I am pretty sure that a part of the problem that McNabb faced from the angry Philly fans named Vinny was racial, and not just due to coming close but not quite winning a championship. Not all of it, but some. Early in his career John Elway got Denver close to a ring, but never quite got one. Nevertheless, he was a virtual god in Denver for his whole career, long before Terrell Davis finally got him a ring. Same with Jim Kelly in Buffalo, and Fran Tarkenton in Minnesota, and Dan Marino in Miami, and Dan Fouts in San Diego and plenty of others. All came close, none got there, all were beloved anyway. McNabb was an perennial all-pro who was treated like a borderline bum - and I think we all know why.

Anyhow, this point can be overstated (especially if we are talking about headcase Vince Young) but I would not be so quick to dismiss it completely and get mad at a writer who wants to discuss it.

McNabb was booed because it's philthy, nothing more, nothing less.

The probloem is that Jemele hill writes of nothing in the real world.

She writes about millionaires. She writes about people who live charmed lives, and who earn more in a year than 90% of America.

In all honesty, can you find me another corporate entity of the size of the NFL that has as many minority millionaires? There's a little over 1500 players in the league, the majority of which are black, and none of them make under $400,000 a year.

I'd lay dollars to donuts you can't, unless it's from another professional sports league.

Winning is what matters. Yes, i'll say it. Racism in the NFL is a thing of the past. The fans are another story, but we're not talking about the idiots in the crowd. We're talking about the people who make the decision to bench Campbell, or to put Young on IR when he's torn a ligament in his throwing hand. A coach who allows race to cloud his judgment does not stay a coach for long.

~Bang

Nailed it

I agree to a point, but again, conscious, intentional racism is not the only issue. I try my damnedest to be colorblind, but when I am walking down the sidewalk and that group of young black men comes around the corner, I start thinking about crossing to the other side of the street.

Really? Why? That sounds like its your problem, and has nothing to do with this thread.

If they look like toughs, I'd be nervous if they were black, white, hispanic or any other race. If they don't, I wouldn't feel any more nervous than normal. Most discrimination nowadays has more to do with class than race. It just happens that many blacks and hispanics are in the lower classes.

I tend to agree that it isn't the race, it's the way they show themselves. Then again, I'm a little younger than some of you guys so some of my friends may be the guys you all are trying to avoid, lol.

[Tweedr01]

I'm white and I'm more concerned when I see someone who looks as you describe than if I see a black guy. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I usually mind my own business if anyone is walking by me on the street because I don't know any of them, lol. I don't avoid anyone because for the most part no one is going to bother you if you don't create something out of nothing. (Not you, but I'm quoting you because I agree more with this)

[Tweedr01]

This sounds like a generational issue to me. I've always heard older people (no offense) talk about the infamous "crossing the street so you don't have to walk past a black person" situation. I have yet to even think about crossing the street when I see anyone, and I've definitely never seen it happen in real life.

Also, I disagree with the notion of trying to be colorblind. Noticing someone is a particular race doesn't make you a racist anymore than noticing someone is the opposite sex makes you a sexist.

What makes you a racist or a sexist is having preconceived notions about someone because of their race or sex and/or believing that your race/sex is inherently superior and/or having hatred/assumptions/intolerance of someone because of their race/sex .Obviously it stretches far beyond that, but that's it in a nutshell, IMO.

Dang man, you are the second person who has jacked what I was gonna say....and I only realize it after I have posted my long winded shpeal.

[Predicto]

Well, I guess I'm saying that IF that is the case (for the sake of argument I'll concede the point that it's possible), I think it plays such a small role that it is overruled by winning or success when it comes to NFL coaches.

Sure, but the coach's decision on "what will help him win or lose" is affected by his subconscious. Remember, black people are not good leaders, don't think quickly on their feet, are just athletes not QBs, etc. Sure, they are fine as running backs, but QB... I dunno.... blah blah blah.

To put it bluntly, I can't think of a situation (and certainly not the 3 that she pointed out in the article) in the NFL today where I think race played a role in a black player being benched. I don't think there is currently a white QB unjustifiably playing ahead of a black QB in the NFL. If you do believe so, please make the argument. Or else, it seems like people are attempting to say that it's "feasible" that "at some point" race could factor into a decision which seems like a useless argument to make.

I don't claim that the article is reasonable. She grossly overstated it. I'm just noting how easy it is for all of us white guys to completely dismiss the underlying concerns that led her to write the article. :whoknows:

I think that Kevin Kolb got a starting job (that he couldn't keep)

[Hubbs]

*sigh*

"Hey coach, you could lose your job that pays you millions of dollars if you go 6-10 instead of 9-7 this year. [Random black quarterback] is clearly your best QB. Why are you starting the white guy?"

"Because I don't care about millions of dollars or a potential Super Bowl run if I have to start one of them ignant minorities!"

:doh:

[Predicto]

*sigh*

"Hey coach, you could lose your job that pays you millions of dollars if you go 6-10 instead of 9-7 this year. [Random black quarterback] is clearly your best QB. Why are you starting the white guy?"

"Because I don't care about millions of dollars or a potential Super Bowl run if I have to start one of them ignant minorities!"

:doh:

Hey coach, the reason we are losing is because that guy doesn't have "leadership." You better put in the "scrappy" guy with the "high football IQ" who "plays the game the right way" and "just wins despite not being a great athlete."

:whoknows:

[Hubbs]

I rarely even watch when she's on First Take. I can't stand her and her stupid 'takes'. She's awful. She makes Skip look like a genius.

Time out. Nobody - nobody - can make Skip Bayless look like a genius. I believe that's the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

[Hubbs]

Hey coach, the reason we are losing is because that guy doesn't have "leadership." You better put in the "scrappy" guy with the "high football IQ" who "plays the game the right way" and "just wins despite not being a great athlete."

:whoknows:

Now you've lost me.

[Tweedr01]

Hey coach, the reason we are losing is because that guy doesn't have "leadership." You better put in the "scrappy" guy with the "high football IQ" who "plays the game the right way" and "just wins despite not being a great athlete."

:whoknows:

when did this happen? any examples? not trying to be a jerk, just wanted to know if you had something particular in mind.

[Mr. Sinister]

Time out. Nobody - nobody - can make Skip Bayless look like a genius. I believe that's the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

More like a law in the Ten Commandments...

[Predicto]

All i was saying is that there are subtle differences in how black and white athletes are percieved. White athletes are generally given credit for winning with intelligence and leadership, black athletic success is generally attributed to natural athletic ability alone. It's subtle, but it is often there - and when it comes to deciding who the running back will be, it makes no difference. Quarterback... it still may make a difference... sometimes.... maybe.

Anyhow, I am enjoying listening to all of you proclaim yourselves to be perfect 21 century evolved human beings, for whom race never plays a part, not even in your subconscious. You are a special bunch indeed (or a slightly delusional bunch).

[Major Harris]

Anyhow, I am enjoying listening to all of you proclaim yourselves to be perfect 21 century evolved human beings, for whom race never plays a part, not even in your subconscious. You are a special bunch indeed (or a slightly delusional bunch).

man, you're making larry proud. it's like he wrote that post for you. lol

[Major Harris]

Hey coach, the reason we are losing is because that guy doesn't have "leadership." You better put in the "scrappy" guy with the "high football IQ" who "plays the game the right way" and "just wins despite not being a great athlete."

:whoknows:

"nebraska and notre dame can't compete with the elite anymore because they can't get the athletes. the talent pool has shifted"

[Dan T.]

man, you're making larry proud. it's like he wrote that post for you. lol

Nah, there's no underlines.

[Tweedr01]

All i was saying is that there are subtle differences in how black and white athletes are percieved. White athletes are generally given credit for winning with intelligence and leadership, black athletic success is generally attributed to natural athletic ability alone. It's subtle, but it is often there - and when it comes to deciding who the running back will be, it makes no difference. Quarterback... it still may make a difference... sometimes.... maybe.

Anyhow, I am enjoying listening to all of you proclaim yourselves to be perfect 21 century evolved human beings, for whom race never plays a part, not even in your subconscious. You are a special bunch indeed (or a slightly delusional bunch).

so what you're saying is ryan leaf is very intelligent and jamarcus russell has been doing it on natural athletic ability? gotcha!

[terrifNick21]

There are fewer black QBs in the NFL than white ones. White QBs get benched just as often as blacks, but since there are more whites, it's not as magnified as it is when the black QBs struggle. See, just this year, the Panthers benched Matt Moore AND Jimmy Clausen...both white. The 49ers benched Alex Smith....white Trent Edwards in Buffalo got benched....white. See, that's 4 white QBs off the top of my head. And I know there's more.

[Tweedr01]

There are fewer black QBs in the NFL than white ones. White QBs get benched just as often as blacks, but since there are more whites, it's not as magnified as it is when the black QBs struggle. See, just this year, the Panthers benched Matt Moore AND Jimmy Clausen...both white. The 49ers benched Alex Smith....white Trent Edwards in Buffalo got benched....white. See, that's 4 white QBs off the top of my head. And I know there's more.

Shhhhh, don't be honest, they don't like that.

[Mr. Sinister]

Shhhhh, don't be honest, they don't like that.

Wtf do you mean "they"?!?

[terrifNick21]

^^^ :rotflmao:

[Predicto]

"nebraska and notre dame can't compete with the elite anymore because they can't get the athletes. the talent pool has shifted"

That is actually kind of true (because the weather lets high schoolers play year round in Florida, Texas and California, but not in Michigan or Ohio or Illinois.) That's not a racial thing at all.