The problem with McNabb, from an Eagle fan

[brdawk20]

I've read a number of threads pro and con McNabb. After watching him for years, and seeing his struggles now, I'd like to make a few observations.

Through most of McNabb's career in Philly, he had a few basic pieces in place that allowed him to settle in and play well, for the most part. Does he have those things with the 'skins now?

1. Very good, versitile running back. Note I said very good RB, not running game. Do the Skins have sitting in the backfield a back as good as a healthy Duce Staley or Brian Westbrook? Both of those backs were assets in the passing game as well as on the ground. If anything, Westbrook was the real MVP of the offense.

2. Pass blocking O-line. For most of D-Mac's career, Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan in their prime were manning the tackle positions. He had a good center in Hank Fraley--when he got hurt, Jaamal Jackson stepped up and took the job. Todd Herremans is a verstile, underrated powerful and aggressive blocker who clogged the middle from the left guard spot, and moved to tackle when needed.

3. Good, hard-nosed blocking fullback with some pass catching/running skill. It took time (too long, lol), but Reid finally got guys like Kevin Turner, Jon Ritchie, and Len Weaver to help out in the backfield.

4. Good pass catching tight end. Chad Lewis saved McNabb a number of times and got to the Pro Bowl for it. Brent Celek has turned out to be a darn good 5th round pick too.

5. A stable coaching staff running the same system for years.

McNabb was successful despite having the following receivers as his no. 1 and 2 for most of his career: Charles Small, Charles Johnson, Todd "alligator arms" Pinkston, Na Brown, James Thrash, Freddie "The People's Champ" Mitchell...you get the picture. The only guy he had that was good was T.O. Finally, when Reid got Jackson and Mackin, he had weapons. Also, Jason Avant has turned into an excellent 3rd down guy. Too bad McNabb doesnt have a chance to use the good guys now.

When McNabb was making his worm-killing throws, and we were faced with 3rd and 8, at least we had Westy and an o-line that could give McNabb time to make a play on 3rd down. McNabb was always a QB who needed a line and RB to be successful. The only receiver he ever trusted to make a play on his own was T.O.

1. Do the Skins have the backs now?

2. Do the Skins have an o-line?

3. Do the Skins have a FB that can block and catch?

4. Do the Skins have a pass catching tight end?

5. Is McNabb familiar with Shanny's system, and does he trust him?

If you don't have at least 3 of the above 5, McNabb will struggle.

Hail, my respected opponent!

[GhostofSparta]

1. Do the Skins have the backs now?

2. Do the Skins have an o-line?

3. Do the Skins have a FB that can block and catch?

4. Do the Skins have a pass catching tight end?

5. Is McNabb familiar with Shanny's system, and does he trust him?

If you don't have at least 3 of the above 5, McNabb will struggle.

Hail, my respected opponent!

1. No

2. Only at the Tackle position

3. Depends on which side of the bed Sellers woke up on

4. Cooley

5. No

[SWFLSkins]

1. Do the Skins have the backs now?

2. Do the Skins have an o-line?

3. Do the Skins have a FB that can block and catch?

4. Do the Skins have a pass catching tight end?

5. Is McNabb familiar with Shanny's system, and does he trust him?

If you don't have at least 3 of the above 5, McNabb will struggle.

Hail, my respected opponent!

1. I think it shows that Portis is a difference maker while he has been out. HE blocks very well and provides an outlet for the passer.

2. No, incomplete rebuild underway. Center is an issue.

3. Sellars as stated is inconsistent, can catch at times, can block at times, but when he does not production is effected.

4. Yes, two of them.

5. I don't think that transition has been completed or smooth up until now.

So 2 of 5 and sometimes 3 of 5, but that is the rub. This whole team is not complete at this point. But I think that McNabb is still an upgrade from Campbell and for the Skins was worth the picks. The Redskins would not be .500 at this point without him.

[HailGreen28]

1. No

2. Only at the Tackle position

3. Depends on which side of the bed Sellers woke up on

4. Cooley

5. No

Even though Sellers was back to his juggernaut self this season, I'd still put #3 as a "no". The 35 year old can't be relied upon much longer.

[VetMinimum+Incentives]

1. Do the Skins have the backs now?

2. Do the Skins have an o-line?

3. Do the Skins have a FB that can block and catch?

4. Do the Skins have a pass catching tight end?

5. Is McNabb familiar with Shanny's system, and does he trust him?

If you don't have at least 3 of the above 5, McNabb will struggle.

Hail, my respected opponent!

Good post for an Eagles fan.

1. Not now but a healthy (fingers crossed) Portis and Torain could be a formidable duo for the second half of the year.

2. Hell to the NO! We have the weakest interior line (G-C-G) in football and get routinely manhandled by DTs and NTs. Our RT platoon consists of 2 players that are either hobbling or slow as molasses. Even our vaunted rookie LT is struggling, especially against stunts, although I still see him as a cornerstone for the next decade.

3. Meh. Sellers is an EXTREMELY inconsistent blocker and he struggles mightily with his hands and routes in the receiving game.

4. Cooley. However he hasn't been "right" since the concussion imho.

5. No as far as familiarity is concerned and if he did trust Shanny before he surely doesn't now despite his pc comments to the contrary.

[SweeneyToad]

I've read a number of threads pro and con McNabb. After watching him for years, and seeing his struggles now, I'd like to make a few observations.

Through most of McNabb's career in Philly, he had a few basic pieces in place that allowed him to settle in and play well, for the most part. Does he have those things with the 'skins now?

[snip]

McNabb was successful despite having the following receivers as his no. 1 and 2 for most of his career: Charles Small, Charles Johnson, Todd "alligator arms" Pinkston, Na Brown, James Thrash, Freddie "The People's Champ" Mitchell...you get the picture. The only guy he had that was good was T.O. Finally, when Reid got Jackson and Mackin, he had weapons. Also, Jason Avant has turned into an excellent 3rd down guy. Too bad McNabb doesnt have a chance to use the good guys now.

When McNabb was making his worm-killing throws, and we were faced with 3rd and 8, at least we had Westy and an o-line that could give McNabb time to make a play on 3rd down. McNabb was always a QB who needed a line and RB to be successful. The only receiver he ever trusted to make a play on his own was T.O.

1. Do the Skins have the backs now?

2. Do the Skins have an o-line?

3. Do the Skins have a FB that can block and catch?

4. Do the Skins have a pass catching tight end?

5. Is McNabb familiar with Shanny's system, and does he trust him?

If you don't have at least 3 of the above 5, McNabb will struggle.

Hail, my respected opponent!

Thank you! I have been waiting for something like this from an Eagles fan (I was one for years, but more of a McNabb fan admittedly over the past decade)

[iwasdoinit]

The Skins were 2-6 after eight games last year. 4-4 is better than 2-6. But if McNabb got under center with last years OL he would have been destroyed. Its a little better this year. The team that has had the least draft picks in the league over the last 40 years has to find a way to rebuild once again with a shortage of picks.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

the O Line is the basic problem that is the root cause for all problems (running game, pass protection) other than the inaccurate passes that are all on DMAC5. Until the O line is fixed, success will be sporadic at best

[Boss_Hogg]

Our team has no where near the talent of some of those past Eagles teams.

While we have good TEs our o-line is doo doo, our RB is nicked up and we only have one good WR.

Hopefully we can make some moves to give #5 the support he needs and deserves.

[Chachie]

The OP's ultimate point is valid but I don't see how anybody expected us to have all those things in place going into this season. It's week 9 and these questions are being asked? We should be 0-8 right now with what we had coming into 2010 without McNabb.

1. Very good, versitile running back. Note I said very good RB, not running game. Do the Skins have sitting in the backfield a back as good as a healthy Duce Staley or Brian Westbrook? Short answer- No. We certainly had it in Portis' younger years but we didn't have McNabb then, now did we. Portis and Torain haven't had the chance to prove whether or not we still have it in the form of a 1-2 punch. I would say when Jamaal Brown is healthier that we have a nice stretch running game where Torain is concerned. Torain's not versatile though.

2. Pass blocking O-line. Short answer is No. Through the first 3-4 games of the season this year McNabb enjoyed enough protection to use his roll-out style. Injuries have prevented that since then. The starting o-line hadn't even been together at all before week one so they could be praiseworthy if given that chance.

3. Good, hard-nosed blocking fullback with some pass catching/running skill. Short answer is Yes. Mike Sellers is becoming inconsistent in his later years but he's shown repeatedly he can do all those things. I don't know how long we'll have him but for right now, technically, yes. Sellers fits the bill.

4. Good pass catching tight end. Chad Lewis saved McNabb a number of times and got to the Pro Bowl for it. Brent Celek has turned out to be a darn good 5th round pick too. Weak sauce. Cooley is better than both the guys you mentioned and we have Fred "The Unnecessary Draft Pick" Davis for future development.

5. A stable coaching staff running the same system for years. You're kidding, right?

If you don't have at least 3 of the above 5, McNabb will struggle. So will Kolb, Vick, Marino, Elway, Namath, Unitas, and Otto Graham. It's about getting 4-5 of those 5 to show up on the same day and consistently. Washington simply doesn't have (in the very first season of a brand new system, duh) those elements to make 3 or 4 facets happen at once on a regular basis but we've won 4 of 8 times. Philly's done it 4 of 7. Props to Philly who btw has to play Indy like we've already done.

[flexxskins]

1. Do the Skins have the backs now?

2. Do the Skins have an o-line?

3. Do the Skins have a FB that can block and catch?

4. Do the Skins have a pass catching tight end?

5. Is McNabb familiar with Shanny's system, and does he trust him?

What's with all of the answers with all of the excuses/explanations following?

1. No

2. No

3. No

4.Yes

5. N/A

I answered number 5 not available because I don't think that any of us could possibly know that other than McNabb or the coaches.

Now I gave an explanation.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Great post. I agree that if we give McNabb a good line he'd be much better. McNabb has made some plays on his own despite poor line play, but we still need a real good receiver. SM and AA are good players but I believe we still need a 6'4" muscleman to play with these guys. Sure, Cooley can do that but we need someone like Calvin Johnson or Andre Johnson type.

[Frostx08]

I've read a number of threads pro and con McNabb. After watching him for years, and seeing his struggles now, I'd like to make a few observations.

Through most of McNabb's career in Philly, he had a few basic pieces in place that allowed him to settle in and play well, for the most part. Does he have those things with the 'skins now?

1. Very good, versitile running back. Note I said very good RB, not running game. Do the Skins have sitting in the backfield a back as good as a healthy Duce Staley or Brian Westbrook? Both of those backs were assets in the passing game as well as on the ground. If anything, Westbrook was the real MVP of the offense.

2. Pass blocking O-line. For most of D-Mac's career, Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan in their prime were manning the tackle positions. He had a good center in Hank Fraley--when he got hurt, Jaamal Jackson stepped up and took the job. Todd Herremans is a verstile, underrated powerful and aggressive blocker who clogged the middle from the left guard spot, and moved to tackle when needed.

3. Good, hard-nosed blocking fullback with some pass catching/running skill. It took time (too long, lol), but Reid finally got guys like Kevin Turner, Jon Ritchie, and Len Weaver to help out in the backfield.

4. Good pass catching tight end. Chad Lewis saved McNabb a number of times and got to the Pro Bowl for it. Brent Celek has turned out to be a darn good 5th round pick too.

5. A stable coaching staff running the same system for years.

McNabb was successful despite having the following receivers as his no. 1 and 2 for most of his career: Charles Small, Charles Johnson, Todd "alligator arms" Pinkston, Na Brown, James Thrash, Freddie "The People's Champ" Mitchell...you get the picture. The only guy he had that was good was T.O. Finally, when Reid got Jackson and Mackin, he had weapons. Also, Jason Avant has turned into an excellent 3rd down guy. Too bad McNabb doesnt have a chance to use the good guys now.

When McNabb was making his worm-killing throws, and we were faced with 3rd and 8, at least we had Westy and an o-line that could give McNabb time to make a play on 3rd down. McNabb was always a QB who needed a line and RB to be successful. The only receiver he ever trusted to make a play on his own was T.O.

1. Do the Skins have the backs now?

2. Do the Skins have an o-line?

3. Do the Skins have a FB that can block and catch?

4. Do the Skins have a pass catching tight end?

5. Is McNabb familiar with Shanny's system, and does he trust him?

If you don't have at least 3 of the above 5, McNabb will struggle.

Hail, my respected opponent!

I think this is a fair and balanced assessment. I have some tiny disagreements, like the Westbrook comment and the great O-line comment. I think the one thing holding McNabb back is familiarity and quite frankly...a very old WR. But that's another story.

1. We have backs with potential. James Davis, Ryan Torain...and even Clinton Portis. All prospects that have shown they can be good...but they haven't shown up always....especially the running game.

2. Our O-line is terrible. Not sure if I'd argue if the Philly O-line was always the greatest but one thing's for sure. This O-line is in my opinion...the 2nd worst in the NFL

3. I've found Sellars to be okay actually. He was horrible in the Cowboys game but besides that...he's okay. Someone needs to tell him he can't hurdle though

4. Yep..he has Chris Cooley and when he targets him, he finds him 64% of the time.

5. In all honesty, I don't think McNabb is happy here, and I think that's important. I think a Qb's personality plays a part in how they play and though McNabb is a hard worker and leader in the locker room, I haven't seen him smile much. There may be some conflict between him, Kyle, and Shanny. Lack of comfort with the system in addition to having to throw to a 50 year old receiver doesn't help either...neither does hurrying throws most of the time and getting sacked when he's not avoiding sacks doesn't help either

I think McNabb would survive without a running game...he has for the majority of his career. Unfortunately, combine that with a new system, a coach who doesn't trust him(and vice versa), an old receiver who looks lost on the field, and an O-line that literally is like a revolving door, that's a recipe for disaster...

If you asked me personally...I think McNabb would be a fit elsewhere. He's no longer in the position where he can cover up for having Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell by rushing for 600 yards and passing to his tight ends. Of course...he didn't choose to be here so :shrug:

[War Paint]

The thing I don't get is our Oline was doing really well with pass blocking in our first few games. It was our run blocking that was bad at the start. Then they improved a bit with the run blocking and are now horrid with pass blocking. I don't know what the problem is.

[BornToHail]

While do appreciate the post and the insight - wouldn't any decent QB thrive in a well founded system, that has a good O-line, a pass catching tight end to bail him out in 3rd and long, a fullback to create lanes for a great running game to keep the safeties off our deep ball?

[SirClintonPortis]

The thing I don't get is our Oline was doing really well with pass blocking in our first few games. It was our run blocking that was bad at the start. Then they improved a bit with the run blocking and are now horrid with pass blocking. I don't know what the problem is.

We had Clinton Portis as our "6th pass-blocker". We were ****ty against Dallas, but Portis bailed out Rabach a couple times.

We also faced some nasty talent last week.

[Sellersfan]

Your checklist is a recipe for success for any QB, not just McNabb.

I think people outside of Skins fans don't fully appreciate the job CP does as a blocking RB.

The minute he goes down, the Oline weakness (which is no secret) is exposed.

I would take Cooley over Celek every day.

Sellers? Sometimes he is brilliant, other days not so much.

Oline, Oline, Oline, is the only way we will improve!

[THEREALTOR1]

I've read a number of threads pro and con McNabb. After watching him for years, and seeing his struggles now, I'd like to make a few observations.

Get outta here brdawk you POS filly fan!!!1111!!!

As you can see i'm just kidding Good post, just don't tell any of your green brethren I said so, next thing you know we'll have 50 Westy's joining up

I see all of your points, and what I find most disturbing is that with all of those pieces at #5''s disposal (which would be nice for any QB), he still carries a 59% career completion %, and a career QB rating of 86 +/-. When you compare that to some of the QB's he's mentioned with in the same sentence, he's certainly bringing up the rear (not by much, but he's definately in the bottom half at best). This year, the Skins are 50/50 on all of those "points", all based on a per game basis, and who's healthy/and who's not. Fortunately he's not used to having a stud WR readily available at his disposal, or we could be in serious trouble. We're still 4-4 at the half, and my personal "mental jury" is still out on #5. I wasn't sure about the move on Easter, and i'm still not sure about it today. As always i'll remain optimistic that my beloved Skins put something together for the 2nd half, and we'll see how it all shakes out in the end.

At least we're 2-0 in the divsion thus far!

Go colts!!!!

[NoVaSkins21]

The problem is that during the span that the OP mentioned, the Eagles had multiple picks and drafted real well to shore up their OL and other players along with McNabb on their offense. The Skins, did :pooh: with the draft while Snyderatto was in charge. The Skins didn't do much year in the draft to help McNabb on offense and I don't know what they're going to do next year. It starts with the organizational philosophy and I don't know if the Skins have that same mentality that the Eagles did or do.

[Kostaskins]

as a loyal skins fan throughout the years living in ny. mcnabb is a good qb. coming from how many seasons with jason campbell.. to even think about getting rid of him when he makes a better team is sickening! please reference the green bay packers game ! if it wasnt for him we would have lost!

also vs the lions he threw into triple coverage ok! but look at the replay! armstrong didnt even fight for the ball or position! that pick was not on mcnabb! rather than a rookie wr. enough with the mcnabb crap it happened last week! lets move on this guy makes a better team i just hope we resign him! otherwise we wasted a 2nd and 3rd rounder for crap!

[Conn]

Thank you! I have been waiting for something like this from an Eagles fan (I was one for years, but more of a McNabb fan admittedly over the past decade)

Oh boy, another one of those.

[SweeneyToad]

Oh boy, another one of those.

Come on now! I'm not THAT bad.

[Special K]

I'm more interested in the problem with Santa Claus. WTF did he do to piss you guys off?

[SweeneyToad]

I'm more interested in the problem with Santa Claus. WTF did he do to piss you guys off?

From what I hear, the guy who was in the suit was a stand in, and very drunk (very bad too from what I hear). Man I wish people would forget about that.

[SweeneyToad]

From what I hear, the guy who was in the suit was a stand in, and very drunk (very bad too from what I hear). Man I wish people would forget about that.

don't quote me on it though, that was about a decade before my time, but my mother relayed that to me. It was also a bad year for the Eagles, and I think they were just looking for someone to blam eit on, much like they do every other year - good or bad - that they don't get a ring.