WP: Virginia 4th-grade textbook criticized over claims on black Confederate soldiers

[elkabong82]

So this is about the state's right to enslave minorities by having them hooked on a drug as well as getting the young and the ignorant to vote for the irresponsible politicians hoping to stay in power?

What else would you call the proposal to place a pot processing plant in Oakland but an opportunity to legally enslave that population via a controlled drug. "Lets keep them half baked and stuck on the plantation known as the Democratic party."

So many things wrong with your post I don't even know where to begin.

1) The majority in CA clearly wants to pass Prop 19, as it is favored to pass right now. So there is no enslaving of a minority with a drug.

2) Pot is habit-forming, but it is not chemically addictive, nor are there withdrawls from quitting.

3) Your argument can be applied to any altering substances, from tobacco and alcohol to prescription drugs or even fatty foods and sugar.

4) That portion of my argument was meant solely to tie-in a current issue with state rights. I wasn't talking about the issue itself in CA, there's already a thread for that, if you want to discuss that and not what I was actually talking about, then I suggest you go to that thread.

[thebluefood]

Regardless of what caused the war...

"We won, you lost. Deal with it."

Carry on.

[Larry]

What else would you call the proposal to place a pot processing plant in Oakland but an opportunity to legally enslave that population via a controlled drug.

Freedom?

[Burgold]

Outside of the issue here, I find it discouraging that the research for this academic text came from stuff the author found on the internet. To quote John Adams, "Good God!"

[Jumbo]

Outside of the issue here, I find it discouraging that the research for this academic text came from stuff the author found on the internet. To quote John Adams, "Good God!"

"...of the idiots, by the idiots, for the idiots..."

[Burgold]

"...of the idiots, by the idiots, for the idiots..."

and getting more so daily

[GritzRgreat]

I went to college in Alabama, I was shocked to read in their public school history books that Montgomery was the capital of the South, not Richmond. Also that the Klan was formed to protect southerners from carpet baggers.

Both are true to a point.

[GritzRgreat]

Before this takes off into yet another series of lectures (history discussions are never discussions, I have found, but instead a group of enthusiasts taking turns giving lectures), I just thought I'd add this:

My wife is a teacher in an elementary school in Fairfax County, and she works with the 4th grade team there, and they all hate this textbook. It's apparently got lots of pretty pictures, but little useful information, and the teachers all have to continually make use of outside resources to properly teach the material.

Personally, I'm offended that the county would buy a textbook written by a person that is not a trained historian.

Carry on...

bet the books were cheap and the school system saved a couple a bucks.....

[SnyderShrugged]

I think it's pretty clear that slavery was the main reason why the civil war occured. It just wasn't the main reason why many confederate soldiers fought.

My favorite post of the month! Excellent!

[Larry]

Unfortunately, when discussing "the reasons for a war", it's a discussion of "why the governments involved, started the war".

It's probably true that many soldiers (on both sides) joined the military to impress women. That doesn't mean that impressing women was the reason for the war.

The war didn't begin when the Duke Boys enlisted. It began when the confederate states declared their leaving the Union, and their formation of a government.

[Predicto]

So this is about the state's right to enslave minorities by having them hooked on a drug as well as getting the young and the ignorant to vote for the irresponsible politicians hoping to stay in power?

What else would you call the proposal to place a pot processing plant in Oakland but an opportunity to legally enslave that population via a controlled drug. "Lets keep them half baked and stuck on the plantation known as the Democratic party."

Someday we are all going to find out that "NavyDave" is an elaborate troll who has been jerking us around for a decade with stuff like this.

And I'm going to be kicking myself for having fallen for it, time after time.

[brandymac27]

So, this same junk has been taught for decades and is just now coming to light? WTH took so long? And why in the hell is the Dept. of Ed allowing text books to be used that are written by anyone who has access to the internet?

[Henry]

The war didn't begin when the Duke Boys enlisted. It began when the confederate states declared their leaving the Union, and their formation of a government.

Technically it began when the Confederacy fired on Fort Sumter.

Sorry, I'm a history snob.

[GritzRgreat]

It began when the confederate states declared their leaving the Union, and their formation of a government.

No, it began when South Carolina troops fired on Fort Sumter. I for one wish they had not done such a thing. I wonder how history would have played out if the CSA would have just ignored the Union troops and left them alone? What hand would Lincoln play if southerners hadn't taken the bait?

[Larry]

Technically it began when the Confederacy fired on Fort Sumter.

Sorry, I'm a history snob.

Then by the same definition, the Revolutionary War didn't begin with the Declaration of Independence, it began when the first shots were fired. (I don't even know when that was. Lexington and Concord?)

But the day we celebrate is the Fourth of July.

[Larry]

No, it began when South Carolina troops fired on Fort Sumter. I for one wish they had not done such a thing. I wonder how history would have played out if the CSA would have just ignored the Union troops and left them alone? What hand would Lincoln play if southerners hadn't taken the bait?

I thought I'd read that

a) The union General who occupied Fort Sumter did so without orders, on his own authority. (For what, I gather, were pretty good reasons.)

And that what then followed was the rebels attempting to blockade the fort, and the Union attempting to land supplies and more troops.

[GritzRgreat]

Technically it began when the Confederacy fired on Fort Sumter.

Sorry, I'm a history snob.

this^^^^

Ever wonder what might have happened if southerner troop just let the be?

I was the only Union held position in the entire southern states.

[GritzRgreat]

I thought I'd read that

a) The union General who occupied Fort Sumter did so without orders, on his own authority. (For what, I gather, were pretty good reasons.)

And that what then followed was the rebels attempting to blockade the fort, and the Union attempting to land supplies and more troops.

On January 9, 1861, Citadel Cadets manning an artillery battery on Morris Island fired the first hostile shots of the Civil War, repulsing the federal steamship Star of the West, carrying supplies and two hundred federal troops dispatched by President Buchanan to reinforce Union Forces garrisoned at Fort Sumter.27 During the Star of the West incident, the Cadets flew as their banner a unique flag, observed by eye witnesses on the federal steamer, and described in a dispatch by a Union Officer at Fort Sumter as "a flag with a red field, and a white palmetto tree."28 A depiction of this flag flying over the Cadet battery on Morris Island can be seen in the Star of the West mural in Daniel Library, and replicas of the flag are now used as the spirit flag of The Citadel Corps of Cadets, known affectionately as "Big Red."

[Larry]

No, it began when South Carolina troops fired on Fort Sumter. I for one wish they had not done such a thing. I wonder how history would have played out if the CSA would have just ignored the Union troops and left them alone? What hand would Lincoln play if southerners hadn't taken the bait?

I thought I'd read that

a) The union General who occupied Fort Sumter did so without orders, on his own authority. (For what, I gather, were pretty good reasons.)

And that what then followed was the rebels attempting to blockade the fort, and the Union attempting to land supplies and more troops.

this^^^^

Ever wonder what might have happened if southerner troop just let the be?

I was the only Union held position in the entire southern states.

On January 9, 1861, Citadel Cadets manning an artillery battery on Morris Island fired the first hostile shots of the Civil War, repulsing the federal steamship Star of the West, carrying supplies and two hundred federal troops dispatched by President Buchanan to reinforce Union Forces garrisoned at Fort Sumter.27 During the Star of the West incident, the Cadets flew as their banner a unique flag, observed by eye witnesses on the federal steamer, and described in a dispatch by a Union Officer at Fort Sumter as "a flag with a red field, and a white palmetto tree."28 A depiction of this flag flying over the Cadet battery on Morris Island can be seen in the Star of the West mural in Daniel Library, and replicas of the flag are now used as the spirit flag of The Citadel Corps of Cadets, known affectionately as "Big Red."

Looks like what I said was correct.

The South seceded.

Union troops, on their own authority, relocated to the fort.

The Union then attempted to land supplies and additional troops at the fort.

The Confederates (I hadn't heard it was Citadel Cadets) attempted (successfully) to prevent the resupply and reinforcement.

(reading more on Wiki.)

(Looks to me like, when the Confederacy actually began attacking the fort, the Union was only days away from attempting to significantly reinforce the fort. (I wonder if they knew that, and maybe that was the reason for the attack.) The impression I get from my outrageously brief education is that had the Union succeeded in reinforcing the fort, they very will might have cut off access to the South's largest port.)

[GritzRgreat]

Looks like what I said was correct.

The South seceded.

Union troops, on their own authority, relocated to the fort.

The Union then attempted to land supplies and additional troops at the fort.

The Confederates (I hadn't heard it was Citadel Cadets) attempted (successfully) to prevent the resupply and reinforcement.

(reading more on Wiki.)

(Looks to me like, when the Confederacy actually began attacking the fort, the Union was only days away from attempting to significantly reinforce the fort. (I wonder if they knew that, and maybe that was the reason for the attack.) The impression I get from my outrageously brief education is that had the Union succeeded in reinforcing the fort, they very will might have cut off access to the South's largest port.)

I don't think the Feds would have cut off access to Charleston. Up until that time most Northerns were against a War. Blocking Charleston wasn't a step the Feds were willing to make. They would have looked like the aggressor in that matter. It was all a bluff and one that worked. Looking back, and i know thats e-z to do, but i would have let the Feds have the fort and come and go as they please. Kind of like a '' south guantanamo bay." But

southern pride being what it is........................................................

[Henry]

Then by the same definition, the Revolutionary War didn't begin with the Declaration of Independence, it began when the first shots were fired. (I don't even know when that was. Lexington and Concord?)

Correct. Remember 'The shot heard round the world'?

That was Lexington, April 19, 1775. Regarded as the beginning of the war.

But the day we celebrate is the Fourth of July.

We don't celebrate the start of the war. We celebrate declaring ourselves an independent nation.

Interesting little bit of trivia: John Adams thought that we would celebrate July 2nd, as that was the day the Continental Congress passed the motion to declare independence. July 4th was the day the Decleration was officially signed.

[Henry]

I don't think the Feds would have cut off access to Charleston. Up until that time most Northerns were against a War. Blocking Charleston wasn't a step the Feds were willing to make. They would have looked like the aggressor in that matter. It was all a bluff and one that worked. Looking back, and i know thats e-z to do, but i would have let the Feds have the fort and come and go as they please. Kind of like a '' south guantanamo bay." But

southern pride being what it is........................................................

I think it was more that Sumter was a US possession and the US wasn't obliged to abandon it just because the Confederacy told them to. Lincoln was in an awkward situation: should he just up and leave it, which would make him look weak and weaken the US position with regards to the Confederacy. Or should he reinforce and supply it through force. (Attempts by Buchanan to send supplies on civilian ships had already been repulsed.) In the end Lincoln again sent unarmed ships to resupply the fort, but also sent Govourner Pickens a message that the attempt was to supply the fort with provisions only; no men, arms or ammunition. This transfered the dilemma to the Confederates. They made their choice, and here we are.

[HailGreen28]

FFS. The South didn't secede for some legal argument. For ***** and giggles. They seceded for the "right" to have slavery.

[Chicken Fried]

Y'all need to remember that most rebels didn't own slaves. JMS is right. Most went to battle for loyalty to their state. There were also a number of political events that separated the North from South beforehand. Basically, the war probably wouldn't have happened without slavery, but slavery wasn't the only reason.

[Larry]

Interesting little bit of trivia: John Adams thought that we would celebrate July 2nd, as that was the day the Continental Congress passed the motion to declare independence. July 4th was the day the Decleration was officially signed.

Actually, I'd heard that the second was the real day, but the version I'd heard was that the document said July Fourth on it, because they thought it would take that long to actually collect the signatures. But that they were actually able to get it signed earlier than expected.