The Haslett Files (Greg Blache vs. Jim Haslett, Historically bad defensive pace, etc.)

[justice98]

Apparently the scheme has a lot to do with it since our turnovers are up by leaps and bounds this season. Perhaps it's the pressure created on the QB, or the different looks of blitzes. Perhaps it's that our players believe in their coach. I don't know, but whatever it is, it's working.

Last year through 6 games they had 7 takeways, this year through 6 games they have 9 (not counting special teams turnovers). Is that leaps and bounds?

[bowhunter]

I think the only fair way to compare Defenses is to take into account the competition. What has an opponant averaged in offense vs what your defense allowed. ie If the Colts average this year was 100 yards rushing/game and we allowed 125, 21 points/game and we allowed 27, etc. Then you compare and rank defenses. I think the NFL should use this differential in it's ranking system

[ATLredskin]

I was going to write up a long post, but decided to get to the point. Haslett is doing a good job at the moment,but he needs to be consistent. The turnovers is not really due to the defense, but more on individual talent. People say wait until we find this guy and that guy, but i'm worried we find the wrong guy or we never go looking. With Shanahan running the team he will most likely continue to use draft picks on the offense (only 1 draft pick was used on the defensive side of the ball) and if he uses a draft pick on defense then its a "above average" chance the guy will be a bust. (Bruce Allen has a good track record of busts as well) So far, so good with Perry Riley BTW.

Lets just be thankful we have Landry, Orakpo, and Rogers on this team (VINNY GUYS), because without them we are nothing.

[megared]

So we don't have the personnel. I agree. Why switch? Our corners aren't very good and our safety play hasn't improved much other than Landry. The FS position is still an issue.

Don't think that's really a fair assessment at this point of the season. We've been playing soft zones with large cushions the majority of the time to date, with not so much as a hand on receivers when they're coming off the line. As much as I hated Blache's scheme, he did the same the thing with the corners to keep everything in front of them.

Honestly I think if Haslett wants an aggressive defense, he needs to either do it all the way, or not at all. Don't blitz linebackers, but sit in a 2-3-6 or 1-4-6 because you're afraid of Manning picking you apart. That's counterproductive.

[justice98]

Under Blatche - Redskins running the same system basically for eons.

Under Hasslett - REdskins runnign the same system for 6 months.

The year before Gregg Williams, the defense was ranked 25th. The very next year in 2004 when Gregg Williams showed up, they went all the way to 3rd.

The year before Blatche, the defense was ranked 8th. The next year, they went up to 4th.

Last year before Jim Haslett, the defense was ranked 10th. So far this year, they're 32nd.

Go back even further, when George Edwards took over for Kurt Schottenheimer, the D went from 10th to 5th.

So in the last 4 defensive coordinator changes, in the year following the change, the defense has improved from one year to the next. Until now.

[kbltheman]

A statistical comparison is fine but it may be a bit premature to compare this year's defense with the last two seasons under Blatche. The reasons are twofold--first this is a totally new defense as for the last five years the team has run the Williams/Blatche defense and it does take some time to adapt. Second, so far this season the team has gone up against many top flight QBs and offenses. Compare the first six games and opponents this year to last year. Last year the team was 2-4 at this same point in the season and had faced QBs such as Josh Johnson, Marc Bulger, Jake Delhomme and Matt Cassel. Compare that group to Peyton Manning, Matt Schaub, Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo sits to pee.

I think we'll have a much better sense of the defense after the next two games when the team won't be going up against all-Pro type QBs.

[Morneblade]

Speaking of Gregg Williams, I wish he was still here. Everything you want; players playing in a scheme that suits them and being aggressive. THAT defense scared the hell out of people.

[KDawg]

A statistical comparison is fine but it may be a bit premature to compare this year's defense with the last two seasons under Blatche. The reasons are twofold--first this is a totally new defense as for the last five years the team has run the Williams/Blatche defense and it does take some time to adapt. Second, so far this season the team has gone up against many top flight QBs and offenses. Compare the first six games and opponents this year to last year. Last year the team was 2-4 at this same point in the season and had faced QBs such as Josh Johnson, Marc Bulger, Jake Delhomme and Matt Cassel. Compare that group to Peyton Manning, Matt Schaub, Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo sits to pee.

I think we'll have a much better sense of the defense after the next two games when the team won't be going up against all-Pro type QBs.

Did you read the OP? I said several times that things can change, and acknowledged that it was early. I even went as far as to say why exactly I started the thread: The whole "Our defense is allowing less points now than it did under Blache" which I believe I've proven to be utter BS.

Furthermore, in our first six games last year we allowed:

23 points versus the Giants. Not bad. Not good.

7 points versus the Rams. Much better than we did this year against them, eh?

19 versus the Lions. Not bad. They have a pretty good offense.

13 against Tampa Bay. Not bad.

20 versus Carolina. Not good. They weren't and aren't a very good football team.

14 versus Kansas City. Not bad.

[BKSkinsFan]

I think the current state of our D shows not only that our players are still learning the scheme, but also how important a dominant NT is in a 3-4 defense. I honestly think not only does Hayneworth not want to be a NT, he wouldn't accel at it. I'd personally like to see Phillip Daniels starting at RDE as well.

All too often, our LBs are getting manhandled by o-linemen. We need our d-line to do a better job occupying blockers to free them up. I seem to recall Ray Lewis having a little trouble in the beginning as they switched, but once they drafted Ngata things improved drastically for him. I'm seeing the same problems for Fletcher. Sure he's making his tackles, but he's not making the same impact that I've watched him create last season.

[KDawg]

I think the current state of our D shows not only that our players are still learning the scheme, but also how important a dominant NT is in a 3-4 defense. I honestly think not only does Hayneworth not want to be a NT, he wouldn't accel at it. I'd personally like to see Phillip Daniels starting at RDE as well.

All too often, our LBs are getting manhandled by o-linemen. We need our d-line to do a better job occupying blockers to free them up. I seem to recall Ray Lewis having a little trouble in the beginning as they switched, but once they drafted Ngata things improved drastically for him. I'm seeing the same problems for Fletcher. Sure he's making his tackles, but he's not making the same impact that I've watched him create last season.

This is the best reason as to why you don't begin a transition to a 3-4 without a nose tackle. It impedes progress. No matter how good the rest of the unit may be (I'm not sure our defense would be stellar with a good nose, but it would certainly be better than it has been) you don't get a chance to notice because the OL is free and getting to backers.

[kbltheman]

Did you read the OP? I said several times that things can change, and acknowledged that it was early. I even went as far as to say why exactly I started the thread: The whole "Our defense is allowing less points now than it did under Blache" which I believe I've proven to be utter BS.

I did read the OP and I did read the mention that it was early in making a comparison--my post was to add some additional perspective on the statistical comparison given the quality of the "samples" (i.e., opponents) so far this season.

[Morneblade]

I did read the OP and I did read the mention that it was early in making a comparison--my post was to add some additional perspective on the statistical comparison given the quality of the "samples" (i.e., opponents) so far this season.

Then you should also understand that this is not just looking at 6 games this season, it is looking at both coaches careers as well.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Or another analysis is we have a depressingly old d-line, and a real need for a linebacker or two. Couple this with a new scheme...and we get what we get.

Safety play has improved.

D Hall is really a mediocre corner.

This is the most important aspect of it all.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Speaking of Gregg Williams, I wish he was still here. Everything you want; players playing in a scheme that suits them and being aggressive. THAT defense scared the hell out of people.

And like this defense doesn't. Gregg Williams defenses were very aggressive and opportunistic much like the one is... no difference except that it employs a different language.

[Morneblade]

And like this defense doesn't. Gregg Williams defenses were very aggressive and opportunistic much like the one is... no difference except that it employs a different language.

This defense does not make the best use of its players. Its a bunch of 4-3 players trying to play a 3-4 with predictably poor results.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

This defense does not make the best use of its players. Its a bunch of 4-3 players trying to play a 3-4 with predictably poor results.

Did you see how many missed tackles and int. that were dropped last Sunday night against Indy? We're trying to make something out of nothing and alot of that has to do with scheming around the talent that we have now.

Question? Would his defense had intimidating say if there was no Sean Taylor or Ryan Clark? Let's include Landry in this conversation because he was a Rookie during Williams' last year here.

[Morneblade]

Did you see how many missed tackles and int. that were dropped last Sunday night against Indy? We're trying to make something out of nothing and alot of that has to do with scheming around the talent that we have now.

Question? Would his defense had intimidating say if there was no Sean Taylor or Ryan Clark? Let's include Landry in this conversation because he was a Rookie during Williams' last year here.

Ryan Clark is a solid player, nothing more. The difference Im talking about is playing a 4-3, because guys like Fletcher, Carter, Daneils, Haynesworth, McIntosh, Golsten all play better in a 4-3 than a 3-4. Hell, even new guys like Vonnie Holiday (playing NT on sunday) is a natural 4-3 DE. I even think Carriker would benefit playing DE in a 4-3. Kemo might actually better as a DT in a 4-3 at this point, he would not have to battle double teams as much and not get moved 3 yards off the play so often. Certianly Jeremy Jarmon would benifit going back to his natural 4-3 DE spot as well. So, while you talk about the back end, Im talking about up front, which is where the switch between the 3-4 and the 4-3 shows up.

[KDawg]

It would be a ***** to pull, but one day I would love to see defensive stats comparing 1-3 quarters v 4th quarter with these coaches.

Well, here's what the stats are for the 2009/2010 seasons (thus far) including the offenses production.

2010

Offense:

1st Quarter: 5 points per game

2nd Quarter: 6.66 points per game

(1st Half = 11.66 points per game)

3rd Quarter: 5 points per game

4th quarter: 2.1 points per game

(2nd half = 7.1 points per game)

Defense

1st Quarter: 4.66 points per game

2nd Quarter: 4.33 points per game

(1st half = 8.99 points per game)

3rd quarter: 5.66 points per game

4th quarter: 4.5 points per game

(2nd half = 10.06 points per game)

Stand alone Analysis for 2010:

The offense and defense combine for very good 1st halves. They are scoring more points than the opposition. In the second half, however, we're averaging a field goal less per game and the 4th quarter alone is abysmal offensively and right on par with the 1st/2nd quarter numbers defensively. Biggest issue is 3rd quarter defensively and big time 4th quarter offensively.

2009

Offense:

1st Quarter: 2.56 points per game

2nd Quarter: 4.625

(1st half = 7.185 points per game)

3rd Quarter: 5.25 points per game

4th Quarter: 4.18 points per game

(2nd half = 9.43 points per game)

Defense

1st Quarter: 5.81 points per game

2nd Quarter: 7.25 points per game

(1st half = 13.06 points per game)

3rd Quarter: 1.875 points per game

4th quarter: 5.56 points per game

(2nd half = 7.435 points per game)

2009 Stand Alone Analysis:

Our offense stunk something fierce. Our first half defense was pretty bad, but our second half defense kept us in games, particularly in the 4th quarter.

2010 vs. 2009 Stats:

Our 2010 Offense is much better in the 1st quarter and 2nd quarter, and worse in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Interesting.

Our 2010 Defense is much better in the 1st and 2nd quarter, FAR worse in the 3rd and better in the 4th.

[jfriedenthal]

If numbers said everything.... Donovan McNabb wouldn't be a huge upgrade over Campbell. The fact is... this defense keeps us in games (as did Blache's), but this defense holds on key drives...... Also turnovers are MUCH more important than ANY other stat IMO. Just saying.. there is some tackling, and some intangibles that aren't represented in those numbers.

[Santana_Fan]

I'd still rather have Haslett over Blache.

[KDawg]

If numbers said everything.... Donovan McNabb wouldn't be a huge upgrade over Campbell. The fact is... this defense keeps us in games (as did Blache's), but this defense holds on key drives...... Also turnovers are MUCH more important than ANY other stat IMO. Just saying.. there is some tackling, and some intangibles that aren't represented in those numbers.

Read through the thread. This has all been talked about and it's been a pretty good discussion. It's not all about the stats. Our defense isn't good. Our turnovers are good. Our defense isn't. Last year our defense wasn't good, either, our yards/points was okay, but our defense wasn't. You need a combination of these things in order to have a successful defense. We don't. Can you win with a mediocre defense, such as ours? Sure. But you need a stellar offense, which we don't have. Case in point is the Saints. They had a stellar offense last year and a poor defense that forced turnovers. You can win like that. You can't win with a mediocre/poor defense that forces turnovers and a mediocre/poor offense.

[Mad Mike]

A couple of things missing from that comparison.

Other than the style, that was Greg Williams system. The main difference being that Blache wasn't a big blitzer or risk taker. Something I defended while he was here because we didn't have the depth in the secondary to do more. That system was in place for years.

On the other hand, this new system has been in place for a grand total of 6 games. It's a work in progress.

The idea that a head coach should take a job and not run the system that he wants is just silly. As the new head coach Shanahan was correct in installing the systems, and making the changes he believes in from the beginning. Anyone who thought this was not going to be a transitional year was simply wrong. Anything Shanahan said to the contrary was coach speak. That's not to say that he does not expect a big improvement this year. In that way he *is* in a win now mode, especially now that the season is in full swing. But he's not going to sacrifice the future for it. Thank god.

[KDawg]

A couple of things missing from that comparison.

Other than the style, that was Greg Williams system. The main difference being that Blache wasn't a big blitzer or risk taker. Something I defended while he was here because we didn't have the depth in the secondary to do more. That system was in place for years.

On the other hand, this new system has been in place for a grand total of 6 games. It's a work in progress.

This isn't missing in the least. It was noted several times within the OP and the course of this thread. As was the fact that every defensive coordinator that has come here has improved the defense over the previous year except for one thus far - Jim Haslett.

It's also a career comparison, for which we see a trend between the two coaching tenures, no matter their current length.

[Santana_Fan]

On a side note, I also like that a lot of our players refer to Haslett as more of a "players coach". I hated Blache's attitude. From the issue with Haynesworth last year when Haynesworth tried to give a little input, and Blache went off on him. Then off the field in interviews, when he went off on Trevor Matich. I know personally as a player, you'd like to have a defensive coordinator that you can go to, and share a few of your views without being attacked.

[sk1nsfan21]

Good thread w/ nice stats to make a good argument.

I'm in the "our defense isn't good" camp, but if they wanted to instill a 3-4 here, they probably figured there's no sense waiting. As it's been said in other threads, our personnel CLEARLY is suited for a 4-3, and this reason alone is why this defense will struggle (mainly against the run). I've watched the skins defense get manhandled on running plays, which is quite frustrating, but I've accepted that it's going to be that way this year, until they get players more suited for the D-line. Yes, people will say "we should've stayed in the 4-3," but you guys are missing the point. If the coach wants to switch, it's going to happen, and we have no choice but to fight through the "growing pains." The advantage to switching this year over next is that players will have experience in the scheme if they're here next year.

Another thing that borderline drives me nuts is the "amoeba" package. 1 D-lineman and a bunch of linebackers all standing up on the line? Indy literally ran it right down the skins throat one drive, and scored a TD. The skins LB's are already undersized, but in this package, they're directly going against o-linemen which is a huge mismatch. I'd love to see at least 2 d-linemen w/ this package (of course someone like haynesworth would be ideal, but he's not playing). While the yardage given up is very irritating, the reality is that Orakpo got a sack fumble, so it's a bit of a trade off, clearly.

Finally, comparing previous years stats of course is slanted because previous offenses could "take it easy" and not have to put up as many more points on the redskins. That's the reality. Offenses could call games more conservatively against the skins because the skins offense didn't produce. How you quantify that I'm not sure, but it is a factor, regardless of how small.

Bottom line, I know the skins defense is below average overall (downright terrible against the run), but the scheme change was going to be implemented regardless of the personnel we had. So, I can accept some of the "growing pains" of it. I would like to see better run D, which is a glaring problem to me. Looking to the future though, assuming we get some personnel more suited to the 3-4, I think Haslett will certainly produce a better D than Blache. I think they're roughly on par w/ each other now, and it hasn't even been a year yet, and they don't have the right personnel. Haslett's doing pretty well given the situation imo.