WP: RI: Fred Davis is not producing as much as expected

[Dan T.]

The way Cooley is playing, it would be hard for any TE to take over. The best part is we know Davis can get the job done, and with defenses now concentrating on Moss and Cooley, Davis can really shine if we start using him right. We are still learning this offense, and Kyle will get him involved in our passing attack, it's just a matter of time.

Which screams WHY draft Fred Davis, when there were so many other needs at the time? I think it was one of two things: 1.Us getting bitten in the ass by Vinny's too-rigid Best Player Available philosophy, or 2) huge overreaction by Vinny/Dan to criticism that the team needed pass catchers, causing them to draft receivers like maniacs who couldn't stop after Thomas and Kelly.

So we have a woefully underused Fred Davis . If Cooley goes down, we're covered. But even if Davis is the 5th best tight end in all the NFL, he's stuck behind the 4th best tight end in all the NFL.

[IrepDC]

Until said star gets hurt of course. Like last year.

I do agree though that it would make sense to think about trading Davis if we could get value in a decent pick or player.

I'd still say trade Cooley if you're going to trade one of them.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I would trade Cooley because he could easily warrant a 2nd to 3rd rounder.

[MartinC]

I'd still say trade Cooley if you're going to trade one of them.

I thought there would be a post along that line and it's a fair point. Davis is younger at this point cheaper than Coolet but he is not a proven commodity yet in the way Cooley is. Cooley is one of only two proven Pro Bowl type receivers on our roster and I don't think we can afford ton trade one of them.

[Darth Tater]

Well we have run a lot of 2 TE sets. I don't have the stats but I would say we have seen more 2 TE than 3 receiver. However partly because of the tackles being nicked up and the need to help Heyer in particular when he has been on the field we have not seen many snaps when both TEs have been in patterns. Davis has been used more to block than receive.

I think as the year goes on he will get more targets if only to make teams pay for focusing on Cooley. Getting Davis and Armstrong more catches will be a sign that our offense is developing and making us much harder to game plan for.

Also, one of the primary ways a 2TE form creates mismatches is when the defense must respect your run game and short game. Once teams started shutting down our run game and we showed problems with our short game, use of 2TE forms have only the purpose you mentioned. In the GB game, since we could not run (and Portis was out), any time we went 2TE was primarily to do just what you indicated. We also ran a lot of 3 wides, especially when Clay Mathews got hurt, since we were trying to come back.

[TheLongshot]

Well we have run a lot of 2 TE sets. I don't have the stats but I would say we have seen more 2 TE than 3 receiver. However partly because of the tackles being nicked up and the need to help Heyer in particular when he has been on the field we have not seen many snaps when both TEs have been in patterns. Davis has been used more to block than receive.

I think as the year goes on he will get more targets if only to make teams pay for focusing on Cooley. Getting Davis and Armstrong more catches will be a sign that our offense is developing and making us much harder to game plan for.

And Zorn used a lot of two TE sets last year as well, usually with one guy blocking and the other guy going out in the pattern, at least until Cooley got hurt.

BTW, I wouldn't say Heyer is the only one getting help. Brown is getting just as much help, if not more. Fact is, when your OL sucks, your TEs and backs are probably going to be blocking more often than not.

[War Paint]

And to think we have people wanting to trade Cooley....shame on you people!

[justice98]

In the absence of depth at WR, it's surprising they don't try to use the 2 TE more.

[Darth Tater]

Except that one time we did throw him the ball. Wide open. And he fell down.

I like Fred, he will get his chances.

Because of a godawful pass. Yeah, you got to catch those but still most of the problem was on McNabb.

[Mania]

Jim Zorn never had a 2 TE set in his expansive playbook prior to picking Davis?

Don't you mean pamphlet. We went from Al Saunders 700 page thesaurus to Jim Zorn's pamphlet. We needed somewhere in between.

Thanks Vinny, again.

[IrepDC]

I thought there would be a post along that line and it's a fair point. Davis is younger at this point cheaper than Coolet but he is not a proven commodity yet in the way Cooley is. Cooley is one of only two proven Pro Bowl type receivers on our roster and I don't think we can afford ton trade one of them.

In my opinion, Davis proved he could get the job done last year.

[darrelgreenie]

Davis is doing a great job and Davis knows his role on the team.

This is another weak effort from the Washingtonpost.

o We do run a lot of double TE sets

o double TEs sets typically don't result in both TEs putting up huge numbers so if that's what people expect they're looking for the wrong result

its about match-ups

o Davis is doing a great job blocking and is an assest in the running game/ and his blocking will set-up for big plays downfield in play action

o Davis hasn't been getting targeted a bunch but he seems like he'll be used a depth threat TE ala Armstong/Galloway are deep threat WRs

o the Davis and Cooley combo could probably be used more often in different ways Cooley at FB/Davis at TE, one at X, Z or slot and the other at TE

but we have to remember our passing game is working why change it?

[mojo]

I would trade Cooley because he could easily warrant a 2nd to 3rd rounder.

Why trade one of the few bright spots on offense, solid guy on and off the field, for a question mark? Draft picks are hard enough to hit on...lets not trade one of the few we got right.

[War Paint]

Why trade one of the few bright spots on offense, solid guy on and off the field, for a question mark? Draft picks are hard enough to hit on...lets not trade one of the few we got right.

I agree. Pretty stupid to trade one of McNabbs favorite weapons. Cooley is shining now that we have a QB worth a damn. Cooley IMO is a true Redskin.

[amm0409]

aaaaand.....some people wanted to trade Cooley in the offseason.

And I will still be the guy who says to trade Cooley, Portis and Carter!!! You can call me crazy etc... U can say that's not why you are a GM etc...

[ABSTRACT]

Everybody needs to stop worrying. When Kyle sees a team with a deficiency in LB and an efficiency in CB he has to face. Both of our TEs will be running patterns.

Or a team that has a deficient pass rush....2 TE sets (without blocking) will def be implemented more.

Clinton Portis coming back to help chip block (or Keiland Williams/Sellers) chip blocking will help.

Kyle will use Davis as a pass catcher this year....maybe not against the Colts because of Freeney but against other opponents.

[MartinC]

And I will still be the guy who says to trade Cooley, Portis and Carter!!! You can call me crazy etc... U can say that's not why you are a GM etc...

Of the 3 Cooley is the only one with any trade value. You might get a late pick for Carter from a 4-3 team who want a RDE but Portis has zero value.

I still would not trade one of the very few proven quality players on our roster in Cooley unless someone totally blew me away with a trade offer - everyone has a price.

[DGREENHULK]

Maybe this is the week Fred has 8 catches for 102 yards and 2 TD's. Its going to happen one week why not this week? HTTR

[IrepDC]

I agree. Pretty stupid to trade one of McNabbs favorite weapons. Cooley is shining now that we have a QB worth a damn. Cooley IMO is a true Redskin.

I would say trade him now because he still has good worth. Why wait until he gets hurt again or his skills diminish, and he has no trade value? There is very little fall off when you put Davis in at that spot, if any. The team gains more by letting Cooley go. That's just the business side of the game.

[amm0409]

If Cooley is a pro-bowler, Andre Carter is good in a "4-3" and Portis is a "good" back then wouldn't that warrant two decent players? Example; maclin and Ernie simms or Roy Williams and a LB. I'm just talking, but looking at all aspects of our players and seeing what you could do with them is food for thought even if chris cooley is your "favorite redskin"

[Leonard Washington]

He must not be conducting himself as a professional. Time to cut him

I thought the same thing. Also it seems that the missed TD in the Texans game was his kiss of death---his snaps have decreased dramatically since then. I did see him out in a pattern on that big TD pass to Armstrong last week.

[PlayAction]

We had already discussed the 2 TE sets in detail earlier this year. I think the main issue for Davis hasn't been Cooley but rather the "return" of Sellers. While Sellers is a FB in this offense he's played TE in the past. Passes to guys that aren't as fast as a WR but harder to tackle have gone to Sellers over Davis. While Davis has talent it was a huge waste to use a second round pick on a TE when we already had a pro-bowl caliber TE. You see other teams with capable blocking/catching TEs selected in rounds 5-7. Davis would have been a fine pick if we didn't already have Cooley.

[War Paint]

I would say trade him now because he still has good worth. Why wait until he gets hurt again or his skills diminish, and he has no trade value? There is very little fall off when you put Davis in at that spot, if any. The team gains more by letting Cooley go. That's just the business side of the game.

How is trading one of our most productive players good business? Trading him would be stupid. Davis, while he did okay last year, isn't proven. If he was better than Cooley he would have beaten him out. Cooley is only 28. TE's are productive through out their 30's. I can't believe people are still talking about trading him.

Trade Davis.

[MartinC]

We had already discussed the 2 TE sets in detail earlier this year. I think the main issue for Davis hasn't been Cooley but rather the "return" of Sellers. While Sellers is a FB in this offense he's played TE in the past. Passes to guys that aren't as fast as a WR but harder to tackle have gone to Sellers over Davis. While Davis has talent it was a huge waste to use a second round pick on a TE when we already had a pro-bowl caliber TE. You see other teams with capable blocking/catching TEs selected in rounds 5-7. Davis would have been a fine pick if we didn't already have Cooley.

Sellers only had about ten snaps last week.

[amm0409]

How is trading one of our most productive players good business? Trading him would be stupid. Davis, while he did okay last year, isn't proven. If he was better than Cooley he would have beaten him out. Cooley is only 28. TE's are productive through out their 30's. I can't even believe people are still talking about trading him.

Trade Davis.

No one has said what we could get for Cooley. There is nothing wrong talking about trading Cooley, if there is great compensation. What about Cooley and Portis for M. Colston or D. Henderson? Cooley for Lee Evans "sketcy." This talk may stop especially if Redskins obtain V. Jackson after season, or one of our questionable WR's step up this season or we get someone in the Draft. You can trade playmakers and obtain better ones.