The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Really? I think he's a prototype SF. 6'9 with shoes on that can shoot from anywhere on the court. I don't think he's going to be a star player but he could end up being a good NBA shooter. Think of him as Steve Novack with more athleticism and less 3point accuracy.

I weigh more than him. Who is he going to guard on the Knicks?

---------- Post added May-31st-2012 at 03:47 PM ----------

Hypothetically If OKC is offering James Harden, Ernie would be an idiot to turn that down.

Well, yes, I would trade the pick for Lebron too.

Now, let's get back into reality for a second......

Edited May 31, 2012 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[No Excuses]

Well' date=' yes, I would trade the pick for Lebron too.

Now, let's get back into reality for a second......[/quote']

Except he's not LeBron so what's your point? What do you think OKC can get for a player they are likely going to lose as an RFA?

I'm convinced some team will throw a max level deal or something close and OKC can't justify investing three salaries that big in guards and scorers. They'll lose Ibaka and basically put out a bunch of crap at PF and C.

Edited May 31, 2012 by No Excuses

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

As a UNC fan, I don't know what to think of Barnes. He certainly has the potential to succeed, but there were just times where he looked terrible. I just don't think he's worth the #3 pick.

I guess that's why I'm so sour on Barnes.

Are there any UNC fans upset that Barnes is leaving school? Did anyone actually enjoy his two years there?

He just seems like a skinny, surprisingly unathletic really good shooter who played with absolutely no passion.

[Destino]

I weigh more than him. Who is he going to guard on the Knicks?

Draft sites have him listed at 223. Danny Granger was 225 in pre draft measurements.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Danny Granger was 225 in pre draft measurements.

Granger went 17th, showed an interest in defense and attacking the rim, and is not really the kind of player you want to take 3 overall.

The one saving grace about Granger is that he carries himself like a star even though he isn't really a star. And he plays his balls off. I'm far more lenient on measurables on effort guys and no one has ever doubted Granger's effort. People have been questioning Barnes' effort since high school. If he was 250, it would be one thing but he didn't like physical play in the ACC. I certainly don't seeing him throwing his 220 pounds around in the NBA.

I dunno...do the Wizards really want a less intense Danny Granger with this pick?

---------- Post added May-31st-2012 at 04:11 PM ----------

PS

I really don't like Harrison Barnes. That may not have come across yet.

My number one criteria when it comes to these high lottery picks is really simple: Do they play hard? If they don't, then they better absolutely blow me away with something else.

Sullenger does play hard. I would probably rather take him over Barnes for that reason. But he doesn't really have the skills/body of a top five player. MKG plays his ass off and has the skills to justify the spot. You know that he will attack the rim. You know he will rebound more than a guy his size should. You have to think his shot will improve in time.

Here is something else to consider: Wall and he will love playing together. The Wizards have no finishers. The Wizards have had very few effort guys. If nothing else, Wall will have fun on the fast break with MKG.

The Wizards need to get some joy in Wall's life and do it fast.

This draft is not about building a team or filling slots. This draft is about making Wall care about playing for the Wizards.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Destino]

Granger went 17th' date=' showed an interest in defense and attacking the rim, and is not really the kind of player you want to take 3 overall.

The one saving grace about Granger is that he carries himself like a star even though he isn't really a star. And he plays his balls off. I'm far more lenient on measurables on effort guys and no one has ever doubted Granger's effort. People have been questioning Barnes' effort since high school. If he was 250, it would be one thing but he didn't like physical play in the ACC. I certainly don't seeing him throwing his 220 pounds around in the NBA.

I dunno...do the Wizards really want a less intense Danny Granger with this pick?[/quote']

The only way Barnes goes top five is if Jordan takes him 2nd. It wouldn't even be Jordan's worst decision.

edit:

I also am not a Barnes fan.

Wall doesn't need a wing that attacks the rim and can't shoot. In fact that may be the last thing that he needs. He needs bigs that can play the pick and roll with him and bail him out when he fails miserably at staying in front of anyone. He needs wings that can catch and shoot so that his drive and kick results in points.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Destino

[Going Commando]

Mike Schmitz video break downs from draft express:

Drummond

Good stuff in that breakdown.

Also, is that Ratatat playing for background music?

I think it's clear from that video that Drummond is a very long term project. He's a baby. He was supposed to be in high school this year. He still has to learn about spacing and moving around on the floor, understanding where he is, in addition to developing the technical skills required to finish around the basket on the low block. He took 9 jump shots this year? Wow. Also that FT percentage was pathetic.

It'll be a while before Drummond is a good NBA player. That's why, when push comes to shove, I prefer MKG over him. MKG is just as young, but he's already got skills and confidence and awareness and assertiveness. You don't have to project those qualities in him. But that size, speed, strength, and coordination are simply freakish. You can't overstate how special a player he'd be if he actually learns how to play the game.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

But that size, speed, strength, and coordination are simply freakish. You can't overstate how special a player he'd be if he actually learns how to play the game.

Isn't that the thesis of the SI article on Javale McGhee from last month?

[Destino]

Isn't that the thesis of the SI article on Javale McGhee from last month?

If Javale had Drummond's body he'd be a top 3 center right now. Javale has a weak base which allows him to get pushed around and prevent him from doing any pushing. He has to play finesse basketball because his build and balance don't allow him to do otherwise. Drummond might actually be faster and quicker than McGee all while having a much heavier frame. His problem is simply that he's an American 18 year old monster, and those guys tend to have poor skills in the US because until they reach college they don't really need any skills. He's three years away at least.

Think of him as Andrew Bynum.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Destino

[SuperBash]

So what is everyone's pre-combine draft board looking like?

1 Beal

2 MKG

3 Robinson

4 Drummond

No one else should be even considered other than these 4. I'm sure we'll get a lot of disagreement here but hey, it's a forum.

[Going Commando]

Honest question, but what's the difference between Jared Sullinger and Sean May? Samuels, EVERYTHING you said about Sullinger was said about May as well. We need a guy who can get up and down the floor and actually play good defense. Sullinger, is another guy who I'd want nothing to do with as far as this roster is concerned. We have some great options at #3, and trading back shouldn't even be considered.

Sully strikes me as more Al Jefferson than Sean May. He's a better athlete than May and looks bigger plus he was a good player and a winner right off. May didn't get good until his final two seasons, and he was just one of the guys on a stacked UNC team, not a star and central personality like Sully was at Ohio State.

Also May was kind of a dirtbag. My sister met him a couple times when she lived in Chapel Hill and did not like him at all. Sully seems like a great kid.

I think Sully is fit to be a great offensive and rebounding big in the NBA. I just think he'll always be a very poor defender because he's slow and can't jump. Players like him tend to work out exactly as they're expected, even if the expectations are kind of low--Boozer, Scola, Millsap, Jefferson, Love. There are a million prior guys just like Sully who've gone on to be fairly successful. Can you win with a team built around a guy like that? No. They're too crappy on defense to be the central figure for a great team. But you can get a very, very good starter and complimentary player out of a guy like that. Pair him with a great front court defender who might not have all of those offensive skills and you've got something. You're just not going to find many bigs that can do it all on both ends, so you've got to try and build a good committee to get it done with.

[SuperBash]

Beal is a lot more explosive and athletic than people give him credit for...

[RonArtest15]

So what is everyone's pre-combine draft board looking like?

1 Beal

2 MKG

3 Robinson

4 Drummond

No one else should be even considered other than these 4. I'm sure we'll get a lot of disagreement here but hey, it's a forum.

1. MKG

2. Robinson

3. Beal

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

A question for you guys: Do you think Trevor Booker would net us a 1st rounder in this draft and if he did, would you consider taking TRob at number 3?

[No Excuses]

A question for you guys: Do you think Trevor Booker would net us a 1st rounder in this draft and if he did, would you consider taking TRob at number 3?

Probably. Players like Booker are dime and dozen and personally I'm not a fan of selecting SG's that high unless they are a can't miss prospect. I don't get that vibe from any SG in this draft.

SG is the most easily filled position in the NBA.

Edited May 31, 2012 by No Excuses

[CrypticVillain]

This is the time of year where I step to the side because I don't know enough about the prospects to add any insight. Just wanted to say I am appreciative for all the knowledge you all are spitting out.....

[RonArtest15]

Did watch both closely a huge difference?

For one Sully has dominated from day 1 and is much more skilled on the block with multiple low post moves. Sully also has a very good pick&roll game and nails high elbow jumpers and if that was'nt enough the kid has developed a damn good 3 point shot for a PF.

And May was derailed by microfracture surgery early in his 2nd season after showing some signs his rookie year and dominating the summer league. He was actually playing pretty well in his 2nd season before the injury getting some starts I wanna say he was averaging like 12ppg 8reb or so but i'd have to look to be sure.

I'm not advocating at all Sully at #3 but i'd love to have him after a trade down.

I don't see Sullinger being anything special on the next level. The May comparison isn't a knock, because like you said....May did have a somewhat productive rookie season before the injury bug hit. Bottom line, we need to stay at #3. Trading back for Sullinger or anyone else outside of Beal, MKG, or Robinson isn't what's in the best interest of this team.

---------- Post added May-31st-2012 at 07:28 PM ----------

Sully strikes me as more Al Jefferson than Sean May. He's a better athlete than May and looks bigger plus he was a good player and a winner right off. May didn't get good until his final two seasons, and he was just one of the guys on a stacked UNC team, not a star and central personality like Sully was at Ohio State.

Also May was kind of a dirtbag. My sister met him a couple times when she lived in Chapel Hill and did not like him at all. Sully seems like a great kid.

I think Sully is fit to be a great offensive and rebounding big in the NBA. I just think he'll always be a very poor defender because he's slow and can't jump. Players like him tend to work out exactly as they're expected, even if the expectations are kind of low--Boozer, Scola, Millsap, Jefferson, Love. There are a million prior guys just like Sully who've gone on to be fairly successful. Can you win with a team built around a guy like that? No. They're too crappy on defense to be the central figure for a great team. But you can get a very, very good starter and complimentary player out of a guy like that. Pair him with a great front court defender who might not have all of those offensive skills and you've got something. You're just not going to find many bigs that can do it all on both ends, so you've got to try and build a good committee to get it done with.

I've seen comparisons that range from Big Baby (a big who can step outside and hit a jumper) to Sean May. Sullinger isn't a good fit on THIS team especially with who we have a chance to draft at #3. Honestly, I'd be more willing to take a risk on someone like PJIII (if we were to trade back) over Jared Sullinger.

[Samuels]

Beal is'nt worth the 3rd pick and he is'nt a top 4 player in this draft. Honestly I like Lamb more and Rivers to me has way more offensive upside then Beal. Lamb,Barnes, Sully are gonna be great picks in the middle of this lottery for some team.

If i'm forced to pick at #3 without knowing any trades or free agent signings then reluctantly i'd take TRob and pray he is'nt a 1 year wonder but I prefer trade down. If he plays like he did this season you got a monster. I hate how much he turns the ball over for a big but he adds something this team lacks a bulldog down low and on the boards that can run like a deer and finish on the break.

[Going Commando]

I think Beal's a very good athlete. I just don't think he's a very skilled scorer. To me there is a huge contrast between his scoring ability and Austin Rivers's for example. Both guys are about the same size, same length, same speed and leaping ability. But Rivers has tons more scoring tools. I watched a lot of Florida games this year and Florida had a huge problem with crunch time offense. Their stars couldn't put the rock on the floor and score some buckets. A guy like Rivers can generate offense for himself off the dribble and get himself space and open looks. I don't think Beal has that same ability.

Wings who can shoot are a dime a dozen in the NBA. How many Cartier Martins are there out there? They've got to be able to do something else to be special. Beal can rebound and he's a good athlete. But it's that ability to create your own shot against tough pressure that makes a scoring wing special.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I'm probably in the minority but I'd rather have Jeremy Lamb or even Dion Waiters over Beal.

[Burgold]

Random Draft thought. This is a good year not to get the number one. Davis can't really shoot. Seems to me he's a rich man's Jan Veesely. Great defensive, hustling player... but a liability away from the basket.

[Going Commando]

I think Waiters is fool's gold. I don't want a guy early in the lottery who couldn't even crack the starting five his final season and never really produced in college. I don't care what program he went to. Guys like Sully, Barnes, Beal, MKG, Davis, even Drummond was a starter at Uconn and he's as raw as it gets.

I'm not crazy about Lamb either. He's got skills and good length but dude is extremely skinny. And he'll always be skinny, look how narrow his shoulders are and skinny his joints. He's very weak. Seems a bit like a moderately wealthy man's Nick Young.

---------- Post added May-31st-2012 at 09:14 PM ----------

Personally I think Beal and Rivers are the two best SGs in the class by a long shot. Torn between which one is better though. On the one hand, Rivers is a vastly superior offensive player. On the other hand, Beal is much stronger, has better defensive potential, and is a much better rebounder.

Do I want the easy 20+ PPG scorer who can't defend a lick but can take over the offense in crunch time? Or do I want the well rounded player who is only going to score off assisted buckets mostly and won't be able to give me much in the way of crunch time offense? Tough call between two incomplete players.

[RonArtest15]

Random Draft thought. This is a good year not to get the number one. Davis can't really shoot. Seems to me he's a rich man's Jan Veesely. Great defensive, hustling player... but a liability away from the basket.

Not to sound condescending or snide, but how much did you watch Davis this past year? He shot 62% from the floor, but we're concerned about his jumper? He'll put the ball in the hoop in a variety of ways without having to stretch the floor by means of a jump shot. He was a guard for the majority of his life and actually has good shooting form. In due time, he'll be a very complete offensive player.

[Going Commando]

Davis seems like he can be one of the best defensive players of his generation. A legit Bill Russell type throwback. I feel like defensive ability gets undersold by draftniks, media, and fans. A transcendent defensive big affects the scoreboard as much as a transcendent offensive player. Net net they might be even more valuable than the transcendent offensive wing because they take away so much of the court from the other team. Davis was certainly transcendent at Kentucky. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a better defender at the college level.

Also he's ridiculously efficient on offense. He led the team in scoring with like the fifth highest usage rate. He's a great prospect.

[RonArtest15]

Davis seems like he can be one of the best defensive players of his generation. A legit Bill Russell type throwback. I feel like defensive ability gets undersold by draftniks, media, and fans. A transcendent defensive big affects the scoreboard as much as a transcendent offensive player. Net net they might be even more valuable than the transcendent offensive wing because they take away so much of the court from the other team. Davis was certainly transcendent at Kentucky. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a better defender at the college level.

Also he's ridiculously efficient on offense. He led the team in scoring with like the fifth highest usage rate. He's a great prospect.

Yup...agreed on all points. There's a reason why people are saying he's the best NBA prospect to come out since Lebron James.

I honestly expect a rookie statline from him that's around 18/11/3.5 on 55% shooting. He'll only get better, too.

SM...I saw a very interesting comparison to Thomas Robinson. After thinking about it, I don't think it's too far-fetched. Amar'e Stoudemire. Any thoughts on that?