The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[No Excuses]

Come on Gilbert dagger lets go.

[No Excuses]

Noooooooooooooooo why give it to Blatche...

[MonkFan8]

Noooooooooooooooo why give it to Blatche...

Because it's the smart play in that situation to defer? Especially against a good D like the Pistons.

Shot was just barely off.

Oh well, win this one in OT. Let's go.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Well that was disappointing.

[No Excuses]

Because it's the smart play in that situation to defer? Especially against a good D like the Pistons.

Shot was just barely off.

Oh well, win this one in OT. Let's go.

Meh it was a good play by design but Blatche isn't even a high percentage outside shooter.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Because it's the smart play in that situation to defer? Especially against a good D like the Pistons.

Shot was just barely off.

Oh well, win this one in OT. Let's go.

You think it's smart to defer to Blatche to take a 3?

[Going Commando]

Yup I don't have any doubts anymore either. We have a top 5 talent at the PG and C position. This team has the potential to be scary good if both Wall and McGee become what we think they can.

When I really started following the Wizards this summer (after they won the John Wall lottery, yeah I'm a bandwagoner) Wall and McGee were the first two players that jumped out at me. I talked all kinds of **** to some Heat fans I know about how we were building the right way and that we'd be the future powerhouse and own the next decade instead of the Heat. Needless to say I looked very foolish and my enthusiasm but it wasn't entirely misplaced. We've got a great foundation in having such remarkable talent at the 1 and 5 positons. I also talked a lot of **** to a Kings fan I know about how Wall and McGee are a better foundation than Evans/Cousins and I think I went on ESPN and argued with a bunch of Nets fans too.

I still hope we end up with a top two pick. If we won the lottery again I think our team would be set. You'd have to take either Perry Jones or Barnes because:

1.) They are the two best prospects in the class IMO

2.) An elite scoring wing who's a lock for 20 points a night is our biggest need.

This is our long term roster IMO:

1 - Wall

2 - Arenas, Young

3 - X, Thornton

4 - Blatche, Seraphim, Booker

5 - McGee, Jianlian

I see talented youth there everywhere but at SF. I think Arenas and Young make a nice scoring combo at the 2, and Thornton is a guy you can win with in a pinch but I'd prefer a bigger talent there. Imagine if we had that Grant Hill like presence at the three in Harrison Barnes. Or maybe a 6'11 Tracy McGrady in Perry Jones. I think we'd be impossible to defend once all those pieces grew together.

I'd take our youth over anyone else's in the league.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

****ing Rip Hamilton.

This is one of those games that was a blast to watch but when you lose it, you're 10x's angrier. And if you win it, it makes your day...

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Would you trade Gilbert Steve?

[Going Commando]

What the? Goddamn why didn't I start Arenas tonight? He would have won me the week in assists if I had. Not to mention his points would have helped me narrow the deficit in points I'm facing. Now I have to pray for a monster game from Stephen Curry on both counts, especially because they other guy has Monta Ellis.

[Burgold]

Man, they really seemed to fall apart there at the end...based on what I heard on the radio. This team is so full of "almost"

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Man we shoulda won this one.

[No Excuses]

Rip wouldn't miss one no matter what. Hand in his face, over under. Just ridiculous down the stretch.

Excellent game by everyone. We lost because of bad officiating in the start and Blatche playing like complete poop on defense. This team is getting there. McGee has arrived.

[MonkFan8]

You think it's smart to defer to Blatche to take a 3?

Wide open shot for a guy shooting 50% from downtown? Absolutely. Blatche hits that shot once a game at least. Just so happens that he missed. Would I have liked Gil to take the shot? Of course, but the Pistons weren't going to let that happen.

We needed Wall in that OT, Gil just didn't have the gas to get it done there. Overall pretty happy with everyone. McGee looked good going up against one of the better rebounding C combos in the league, so that's great. Young continues to play very, very well. Clearly all the tape he watched of Rip helped. Consistency is key, and he's been consistent of late.

Blatche is clearly struggling with that injury, wouldn't surprise me if he gets a few games off when Yi comes back, but he made some clutch buckets. He just doesn't seem to have the lateral movement that he usually does.

[Going Commando]

Would you trade Gilbert Steve?

Tough question. Could we? I doubt we'll get an offer above 20 cents on the dollar. I'm one who doesn't think Gilbert is a selfish player or that he hurts the team in an intangible way, so I don't see how that would be a reason to get him out of town. I just want to see him play well with Wall. If he proves he can do that this season, then I wouldn't trade him. We need great shooters like him on the team because he'll get so many open looks if Wall and McGee develop into excellent scorers. Plus I prefer to keep Young in a 6th man style role for now.

But if someone swung us a real offer, I'd consider it. Arenas isn't necessarily old, but it couldn't hurt to get younger as long as the talent in return is close. Say he continues to play well like this over the course of the season, what do you think we could get in return for him?

That was a tough game BTW ugh. I find it helps to deal with my disappointment over the course of the year by focusing on the long term goal. A breakout performance from McGee is reason alone to celebrate and a loss just keeps us in the running in the lottery for Barnes/Jones.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I don't know what we could get for him. Right now I don't see a market for him. Down the road, some people get injured, someone thinks he's the missing piece, who knows. And even then, I'm not seeing much outside of maybe some expiring deals. And we've already got some cap space. I've also heard that with the upcoming CBA there might be a repeat of the Allan Houston Rule that was available after the last one. Where you are able to waive one player without it affecting your cap. So as is, you're not going to get anything of value, maybe it's best to hold on to him, see how he develops with Wall and if it's not happening, take advantage of the one time amnesty.

Oh and I've already said that there is absolutely nothing--outside of John Wall (and now Javale) blowing out his knee--that is going to get me down this season. That was a tough game and I wish we had won but oh well. I'm still excited.

Edited November 22, 2010 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Going Commando]

Yeah I agree with you about that. I just want to see Wall and McGee stay healthy and grow up some over the course of the year. I'd also be disappointed if Yi and Young got hurt since I see them as being pretty valuable to us in the long run. In a way, It's almost a bit of a blessing that Wall is getting some rest now due to a minor injury because he was getting so many minutes before. Blake Griffin's monster games while Wall's been out are going to let him pass Wall for the ROY award though. Such crap.

Here's a question for you. Since most seem to be in agreement that were we could use help at is at the 2/3 positions, say we have the first overall pick in this upcoming draft. Who would you take? I think the two best players in the class will be small forwards, but I'm on the fence about which one I like better. I think Perry Jones will be the better player in the long run--he's a better ball handler than Harrison Barnes, has ridiculous quickness, and is already a capable outside shooter. Plus he's 6'11 with a 7'2 reach which is gigantic for a small forward. But there are a couple of things that I read about him that worry me. First off, the knock that he has a history of disappearing from games has been mentioned in several different places. I also read that his high school team didn't win as much as they should have and there were questions about Jones' basketball IQ. Those things scare me. I feel like we have enough players like that already on the team. But Jones has such astonishing potential, especially as a defender, if he figures everything out. He's a kind of guy with the potential to get you 20-10 with 2 or 3 blocks a night as a 3.

Barnes is an interesting case. He was an inside player in high school and only recently moved to the wing. He's 6'8 with a 7' wingspan and an NBA body with good quickness. But he hasn't completely gotten his handle down and apparently doesn't have a well developed left hand. So he's still got plenty of room to grow into his position. I love the versatility of his offensive game. He's also reported to be a very smart player with a great work ethic and attitude--he gets a lot of comparisons to Grant Hill. But I can't call Barnes a winner yet. UNC has already lost two games this year and they were against good, not great teams. Barnes was also pretty terrible in each of the losses, going 0-12 from the floor against Minnesota. He went up against another guy who's probably a lottery pick in Rodney Williams and Barnes managed to keep him from being effective. But you need to see him have a break out performance. He doesn't have the same kind of defensive potential that Jones does and doesn't play as well above the rim. Plus, Jones is already more comfortable with the ball in his hands. But then saying that isn't a huge criticism of Barnes. He still has elite defensive potential, has quick hands and is long enough to become a very good shot blocker, and already has a nice jump shot and variety of moves . Plus he's a powerful finisher and it would be a hell of a lot of fun to watch John Wall throw him and McGee 15 alley oops a game.

I don't know who I would take if I were fortunate enough to be able to choose between them. Right now, I'm leaning towards Barnes but Jones has already had a pretty great performance. I'm actually kind of hoping that Jones and Barnes slump this year and some other PG or PF really shines and passes them.

Here's another question posed to anyone. Do you all see Wall/McGee as being the most desirable young tandem in the league? Would you trade them for any of these tandems:

- Tyreke Evans/DeMarcus Cousins

- Michael Beasley/Kevin Love

- Brook Lopez/Derrick Favors

- Blake Griffin/Al-Farouq Aminu

- Derrick Rose/Joakim Noah

- Brandon Jennings/Andrew Bogut

- Russell Westbrook/Kevin Durant

- Rudy Gay/O.J. Mayo

I'd trade them for Westbrook/Durant but that's the only one I think I'd make. Also, Westbrook/Durant is weakened without Jeff Green and that excellent bench the Thunder have.

One more question. Beasley got traded to Minnesota for a song. Why the hell didn't we make a play for him when the Heat started shopping him? We were active with the Jianlian deal, and we were looking to use some cap since we took ourselves out of the big time FA crop. I was pulling my hair out at the time, wondering why we didn't go after Beasley, and it looks like it was a mistake to sit that one out. Put Beasley on this team and we'd probably be winning instead of looking to the future.

BTW, this is absolutely the best time of the year for sports. I'm almost overwhelmed. I've got both the NFL and college football to keep up with. I've also got both the NBA and college basketball. And then there is Hockey and a UFC fight or Boxing Match on almost every weekend. Life is good.

[Warhead36]

Tough loss today. I'd rather Gil take that last shot though, even if he's got two or three guys on him, but it absolutely is the smart play to pass to the open man. Just wish it were a better pure shooter like Young or Hinrich instead of Blatche.

McGee is slowly coming of age. He's on the all-star ballot too. I doubt he gets in over guys like Howard and Bogut, but couple that with him getting to try out for Team USA in the summer lets you know just how highly basketball people believe in his potential.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I love your posts SteveM.

I haven't really gotten on next year's draft class yet. I'm not as big a college basketball fan as I am an NBA fan. Normally in December sometime, when I've got the team down and where it needs to go and after the college basketball season has developed a little, I start figuring out who I like, start following them and go from there.

So with that said, at this time I can't really give you an accurate appraisal of either Barnes or Jones. From what I do know though, I think Jones is more talented than Barnes and has a much higher upside. But as I've stated many times, I'm a big believer in character, intelligence and work ethic. I think those are mosts. They might not necessarily separate the nice statistical careers and complete busts, but I do think it's what separates the winners from the losers. The difference between a Jerry Stackhouse/Vince Carter and a Kobe Bryant. So just reading what you've written, those are huge red flags for me when it comes to Jones. That doesn't mean I'm sold on Barnes either though. I'm not sure he's worthy of the #1 pick. I think he might be along the lines of Evan Turner. Where he's a solid player, little to no chance of being an outright bust, but he'll never be a superstar.

A lot changes between now and the draft, any draft. This time two years ago BJ Mullens was considered by many to be a lock as the #1 player in the 09 draft. That he would've been top 3 if he could have came out of high school. Then he played a year at Ohio State, sucked, and went way outside the lottery, toward the bottom of the 1st somewhere. Now he's on the Thunder and doesn't play.

As for you're which tandem would you take over Wall/McGee. That's tricky as a lot of those players haven't fully established themselves yet. But as things stand now...

Incompletes

Evans/Cousins - This is one to watch.

No

Griffin/Aminu - I'm a HUGE Griffin fan. Aminu is eh though. I'm not sure how he's doing this year but I wasn't sold on him leading up to the draft

Lopez/Favors - Lopez is nice. A top 5-10 center for years to come. But again, Favors is eh. I wasn't sold on him at all coming out of college

Gay/Mayo - Mayo has really taken a step back after a STRONG rookie year. Last year was a huge disappointment to me. And Gay is just missing something. He's got all the talent in the world but he just doesn't have it. (Yet anyway)

Love/Beasley - Neither of them is going to be the franchise changer that Wall is

Rose/Noah - I think Wall will be better than Rose (just as good offensively, better passer) and McGee has the potential to be better than Noah

Jennings/Bogut - Wall over Jennings and Bogut is a misstep away from missing a year and a half. McGee has a bigger upside.

Yes

Durant/Westbrook - I've made my thoughts clear on Durant. And Westbrook is like that.

And I think we didn't make a move for Beasley because of character concerns. It wasn't something we needed coming off of Gil's thing. I wanted us to take a shot at him too though. But I gotta say, just cause he's doing things in Minny so far this year, that doesn't mean it would've happened here. A lot of Beasley's issues were work ethic and distractions. Smoking weed, whatever. Minny is about as far away as you can possibly get from Miami. And anywhere else. Beasley is local. Does coming home help him there or hurt him?

[StillUnknown]

obviously I would go Durant/Westbrook, but i think I would go Rose/Noah as well.

I think Wall will eventually be better than Rose, but Noah already is what we want Javale to be. there's no guarantee on McGee's future success, although these last few games have me more hopeful than ever about his future. (on a sidenote, I was completely wrong about Noah coming out of college. hell he's even putting up decent offensive numbers at this point )

as for the game last night, even though we loss, it was a great game to watch. damn that Rip Hamilton for not missing in OT. Gil looks like he's closer to his old game than I thought would be possible this early in the season. Its great to see McGee develop, love the passion he plays with. He may not always make the right call defensively, but his effort is always on point.

[No Excuses]

I don't think Noah is what we want Javale to be. For as much defensive potential in McGee, he has that much on the offensive end too. The guy will be impossible to defend if he develops some variety of a hook shot or if he can get a respectable 15 foot jumper which he can use to pump fake. There really isn't a center in the league who can match up with him athletically besides Dwight Howard.

That's what I think his potential is. Being the 2nd best center in the league behind DH12. The ability to block, rebound, change shots in the paint, run the fast break, finish around the rim.... McGee has it all. He just needed time and experience and it's all coming together now. Besides Howard, I wouldn't trade McGee for any other center.

[StillUnknown]

When I think of McGee, I don't share the same bright offensive outlook as you Vishal. then again, I don't think we need him to be an offensive juggernaut. as long as he can become smarter with his shot selection, I think he'll be fine. hell, he could average 16pts a game just from point-blank range shots

[Going Commando]

I don't think Noah is what we want Javale to be. For as much defensive potential in McGee, he has that much on the offensive end too. The guy will be impossible to defend if he develops some variety of a hook shot or if he can get a respectable 15 foot jumper which he can use to pump fake. There really isn't a center in the league who can match up with him athletically besides Dwight Howard.

That's what I think his potential is. Being the 2nd best center in the league behind DH12. The ability to block, rebound, change shots in the paint, run the fast break, finish around the rim.... McGee has it all. He just needed time and experience and it's all coming together now. Besides Howard, I wouldn't trade McGee for any other center.

I tend to agree with you here. He reminds me of a quicker, stronger, longer, better leaping type of Amare Stoudemire in his ability to run. McGee has such big and quick hands he'll be a demon on defense. He's already a top 5 blocker and if he played aggressively all the time, he could be a top 7 rebounder (Howard, Noah, Love, Evans, Bogut, and Lopez being the other ones moving forward).

I'd briefly consider a trade for DeMarcus Cousins. But Cousins has like 16% body fat and that measurement was taken at the combine when he had been dieting for months. That, plus his immaturity, would keep me from favoring him over McGee. Shaq came into the league with 12% body fat...

If you classify Scola, Camby, Lee, Stoudemire, Gasol, Horford, and Duncan as better fits at power forward, this is the list of who I see as the top true centers over the next five years:

- Dwight Howard

- Joakim Noah

- Andrew Bogut

- Brook Lopez

- Al Jefferson

- DeMarcus Cousins

- Roy Hibbert

On that list, Howard and maybe Lopez are the only players I would take over Javale. Like you said, Lopez doesn't have McGee's upside. He's got a better post game and is a better rebounder while still bringing an ability to play above the rim that's less than McGee's, but still acceptable. They're also both only 22. In the end I'd probably take Javale over him on the defensive potential he's got plus his ability to run.

Speaking of which, all of our bigs can run and are guards are quick. Why we don't run a fast break offense against slow teams like the Suns do? Unlike the Suns, we can actually get down the floor and defend since I think we've got the types of players to play effective man defense.

[Going Commando]

When I think of McGee, I don't share the same bright offensive outlook as you Vishal. then again, I don't think we need him to be an offensive juggernaut. as long as he can become smarter with his shot selection, I think he'll be fine. hell, he could average 16pts a game just from point-blank range shots

Judging from how he and Wall played together over the summer, I think he could pretty much get that off of alley-oops alone.

[Going Commando]

Welll GACOLB, until you get a chance to see them in action, here are some entertaining highlight videos of Barnes and Jones playing:

Barnes:

Jones:

They aren't super helpful because it's basically just a bunch of clips of them throwing down dunks. But you get to see their athleticism in each. My take is that Jones looks quicker and more powerful than Barnes, but Barnes is no slouch. Jones also looked more comfortable handling the ball, but again, I don't think this is a weakness for Barnes. He's apparently only played the wing for a year so he's still adjusting to creating for himself with the ball in his hands. I'd qualify Barnes as more of a "smooth" athlete and Jones an "explosive" one.

One thing that stood out to me though, is that Barnes has a far more developed offensive repertoire than Jones. He creates for himself in a variety of ways and looks to have a very nice jump shot with range behind the arc. I liked watching him shoot off the dribble and he's a damn good finisher when he attacks the rim. He looks like he's got elite hand coordination and is a good leaper so I think he'll be a very nice defender in the NBA.

I don't think Barnes is a better prospect than John Wall was, but it took Wall the entire college season to cement his place as the first overall pick. I like Barnes as a fit for us better than Jones though, because I think he brings that Grant Hill/Scottie Pippen type of mentality with him--team first scorer and defender who could thrive if he gets to play along side a spectacular star like Wall. But a few things trouble me about Barnes. That performance against Minnesota was truly dreadful and is not the kind of game a top 5 pick should have. If I were a betting man, I would actually bet that Barnes isn't the number 1 pick this year if he comes out. An Evan Turner comparison sells him a little short, but there are similar knocks involved which will take him down. Plus a couple of ugly games and an underachieving UNC team can really damage his stock.

That's my take anyway, and I think it might be colored a bit by wishful thinking. I really want us to draft him and I think he'd be the final piece to add before we've got everything in place to be a contender.