The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[@DCGoldPants]

Shame Beal wasn't moved also. Yeah, nice that he wanted to stay. But, doesn't feel best for the franchise that should be starting from scratch.

[Ball Security]

9 hours ago, CRobi21 said:

What's PHI asking for Simmons? That relationship has turned toxic, they can't have too much leverage.

Yesterday I saw that they asked for Lowry, Van Vleet, OG, and #4 from Toronto. 

[Ball Security]

https://richmond.com/sports/high-school/john-marshalls-isaiah-todd-the-top-ranked-high-school-basketball-player-in-the-country-was/article_f171cb0a-2364-11e8-b843-1f2f08644215.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

Article about Todd from high school.

[Ball Security]

Quinten Mayo is saying that Kuzma and Harrell could be used to get Dinwiddie.  Is that all it would take? Is Dinwiddie at $25M/year something they should do?

 

He also said Bertans is on the trade block.

[method man]

The Kings taking Mitchell was weird. They have now taken PGs in back to back years despite having Fox. I wonder what the price is for Fox. I would think we have the prospects, contracts and a full set of 1sts to get him.

 

The likely scenario is they move Kuzma and Harrell for Dinwiddie. The Nets don’t care about the luxury tax and need tested rotation pieces because all they have is the mid level exception to get someone decent. It’s a win/win for both sides. I like Dinwiddie’s leadership and ability to start but I don’t like his shooting, injury history and contract demands. If it is a 2 year deal, I’d be fine with that

 

Furthermore, DeRozan has been linked to here the past few weeks. He is leaving SAS and they have no leverage. Maybe they are willing to take Bertans and something else back? If push comes to shove, I’d include Deni, who I’m guessing Pop loves. I don’t hate the idea of getting DeRozan as much as I did when they had Westbrook. In fact, you could play him at the 4 with KCP manning the 3

 

Dinwiddie/Neto?/Holiday/Winston

Beal/KCP/Matthews

DeRozan/Kispert/Hutchison

Rui/FA?

Gafford/Bryant

You also have a $8M trade exception to pull in a piece and the MLE

[CRobi21]

53 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Quinten Mayo is saying that Kuzma and Harrell could be used to get Dinwiddie.  Is that all it would take? Is Dinwiddie at $25M/year something they should do?

 

He also said Bertans is on the trade block.

 

He just retweeted himself about that. Could be Some traction there.

[abdcskins]

My prediction is that DInwiddie reinjures his knee this upcoming year.  Partial ACL tears are disasters waiting to happen.

[Ball Security]

34 minutes ago, method man said:

The Kings taking Mitchell was weird. They have now taken PGs in back to back years despite having Fox. I wonder what the price is for Fox. I would think we have the prospects, contracts and a full set of 1sts to get him.

 

The likely scenario is they move Kuzma and Harrell for Dinwiddie. The Nets don’t care about the luxury tax and need tested rotation pieces because all they have is the mid level exception to get someone decent. It’s a win/win for both sides. I like Dinwiddie’s leadership and ability to start but I don’t like his shooting, injury history and contract demands. If it is a 2 year deal, I’d be fine with that

 

Furthermore, DeRozan has been linked to here the past few weeks. He is leaving SAS and they have no leverage. Maybe they are willing to take Bertans and something else back? If push comes to shove, I’d include Deni, who I’m guessing Pop loves. I don’t hate the idea of getting DeRozan as much as I did when they had Westbrook. In fact, you could play him at the 4 with KCP manning the 3

 

Dinwiddie/Neto?/Holiday/Winston

Beal/KCP/Matthews

DeRozan/Kispert/Hutchison

Rui/FA?

Gafford/Bryant

You also have a $8M trade exception to pull in a piece and the MLE

What kind of package would you put together to get Fox?  
 

Would love to have him, Beal, and Rui.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Going Commando]

Anyone else feel like Toronto picking Scottie Barnes is a sign that they want to deal Siakam?  It feels like a swap of Simmons for Siakam is going to happen at some point this summer.  I think that's a change of scenery that benefits all parties involved.  But More needs to get realistic about Simmons's value for the trade to happen.

 

The other shocking lottery picks were Mitchell to Sacramento and Primo to San Antonio.  I wish we could have gotten Mitchell ourselves if we intend to stick with Beal.  He's the kind if defensive minded PG I would be looking for.

 

Can't help but notice that Orlando got Suggs and Franz Wagner and they already have Jonathan Isaac and Markelle Fultz and Cole Anthony.  Trading Beal within the division is dicey, but I wonder if there is a deal to be had for Suggs and Wagner?

 

Otherwise the Golden State assets actually look better now than they did before the draft to me.  Kuminga and Moody have enough upside that not everything would have to hinge on Wiseman's potential.  If Beal backtracks and wants out, then GS is a good trade partner.  I think they're going to hold onto those assets for the moment in order to get either Beal or Lillard.  It'll come down to either Lillard softening his stance on playing for GS, or Beal asking out.

[Going Commando]

25 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

What kind of package would you put together to get Fox?  
 

Would love to have him, Beal, and Rui.

Fox is a nice player but Mitchell seems like the better fit to me.  He's a junk yard dog and he has the intangible qualities I would want.

 

The Suns are the best model of how we can build a contender around a guard like Beal, and the way to do it is to get really strong on D at all of the other spots on the court.  Strong 3 and D wings like Bridges and Johnson, a beast of a center, and a great defensive PG who can run pick and rolls and give you secondary scoring.

 

We're not going to be able to build all of that since we're never getting an Ayton and there are no other CP3s.  But we can approximate it by getting the traits we needed from multiple players and running a bigger rotation.  Beal + Rui is your scoring.  PnR offense and defense from Deni.  Defense and rebounding from Gafford, etc.  But we need more defense on the wing and in the backcourt.  And probably need another Gafford since he's going to foul a ton.  Mitchell offers us one of those roles.  But I have no idea what it would take to get him.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Ball Security]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Fox is a nice player but Mitchell seems like the better fit to me.  He's a junk yard dog and he has the intangible qualities I would want.

 

The Suns are the best model of how we can build a contender around a guard like Beal, and the way to do it is to get really strong on D at all of the other spots on the court.  Strong 3 and D wings like Bridges and Johnson, a beast of a center, and a great defensive PG who can run pick and rolls and give you secondary scoring.

 

We're not going to be able to build all of that since we're never getting an Ayton and there are no other CP3s.  But we can approximate it by getting the traits we needed from multiple players and running a bigger rotation.  Beal + Rui is your scoring.  PnR offense and defense from Deni.  Defense and rebounding from Gafford, etc.  But we need more defense on the wing and in the backcourt.  And probably need another Gafford since he's going to foul a ton.  Mitchell offers us one of those roles.  But I have no idea what it would take to get him.

Fun fact:  Fox is only 9 months older than Mitchell.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

Watching video of Todd, he looks very smooth shooting, has nice form, good rotation, etc.  but his release seems slow.  I do love the pick though.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Destino]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Beal can run point since he's a lethal PnR ball handler. What we need from our point is merely secondary creation on offense, but instead excellent defense. Legit ball stopping ability so that Beal never really has to check a dynamic guard on the perimeter and so our bugs don't get teed off on with constant switches or easy downhill dribble penetration.  We don't need a dynamic player at PG, and one of our problems over the years has been having too much money and resources tied up in ball dominant guards who don't defend well.

What the Wizards need, more than anything, is a second player that can score at a high level and create his own shot.  Nothing matters if you don’t have (at least) two guys that can do that.  Adding a defensive point guard like Jrue Holiday, for example, wouldn’t make this team any good in the post season. He’s not going to beat teams in the 4th when Beal is facing doubles every time he touches it.  
 

This isn’t to say defense doesn’t matter, it obviously does.  Two guys that can create, two talented defenders, some spot up shooters, and good coaching is a pretty good formula for success.  

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

11 minutes ago, Destino said:

What the Wizards need, more than anything, is a second player that can score at a high level and create his own shot.  Nothing matters if you don’t have (at least) two guys that can do that.  Adding a defensive point guard like Jrue Holiday, for example, wouldn’t make this team any good in the post season. He’s not going to beat teams in the 4th when Beal is facing doubles every time he touches it.  
 

This isn’t to say defense doesn’t matter, it obviously does.  Two guys that can create, two talented defenders, some spot up shooters, and good coaching is a pretty good formula for success.  

 

I believe Rui will emerge as that consistent second scorer.

 

 

 

 

 

LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Russell Westbrook Recently Met To Discuss Teaming Up

 

 

Russell Westbrook met with LeBron James and Anthony Davis approximately two weeks ago at the house of James to discuss the possibility of playing together with the Los Angeles Lakers, according to Broderick Turner of the Los Angeles Times. The Lakers and Washington Wizards agreed to a trade of Westbrook shortly before the draft on Thursday.

 

Westbrook talked about how his only intention is to return home to Los Angeles and become a champion. James and Davis talked about changing positions, playing more minutes at power forward and center, respectively, to accommodate Westbrook.

Edited July 30, 2021 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Ball Security]

13 hours ago, CRobi21 said:

What's PHI asking for Simmons? That relationship has turned toxic, they can't have too much leverage.

Also saw that PHI asked for 7, 14, Wiseman, Wiggins and two future first rounders.  Got turned down with the quickness.

[Hersh]

57 minutes ago, Destino said:

What the Wizards need, more than anything, is a second player that can score at a high level and create his own shot.  Nothing matters if you don’t have (at least) two guys that can do that.  Adding a defensive point guard like Jrue Holiday, for example, wouldn’t make this team any good in the post season. He’s not going to beat teams in the 4th when Beal is facing doubles every time he touches it.  
 

This isn’t to say defense doesn’t matter, it obviously does.  Two guys that can create, two talented defenders, some spot up shooters, and good coaching is a pretty good formula for success.  

 

 

100% agree with this. Bucks had two guys that could get their own with Giannis and Middleton. Wizards currently have one. I prefer that they get a second playmaker be a SF, PF, or C. How many teams win Championships that don't have that kind of balance? 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

What the Wizards need, more than anything, is a second player that can score at a high level and create his own shot.  Nothing matters if you don’t have (at least) two guys that can do that.  Adding a defensive point guard like Jrue Holiday, for example, wouldn’t make this team any good in the post season. He’s not going to beat teams in the 4th when Beal is facing doubles every time he touches it.  
 

This isn’t to say defense doesn’t matter, it obviously does.  Two guys that can create, two talented defenders, some spot up shooters, and good coaching is a pretty good formula for success. 

 

I agree with Brave that Rui can be a good second scorer.  But setting that aside, I feel that what you're saying can be broadened to say that you need a second source of high gravity so that defenses can't collapse on Beal in the postseason.  I think there is a difference between that and good individual shot creation: shot creators fall within the category of high gravity players, but so do shot makers.  A really lethal high volume shooter like Bertans was in 2019-2020 has high gravity.  And so does a dominant PnR roller and rim runner like Ayton, where he's not creating the shots himself.  If you have a really great ball handling shot creator who can pass, then you can get the gravity you need from off ball players.  When defenses collapse on Beal, if he can kick it out to good shooters, then you're fine.  If Cory Kispert or Bertans makes four or five threes in a game and the wings can no longer collapse on the ball handler, then Beal gets his space to score.  Or if the big has to drop his coverage because he has to worry about that rim runner, then Beal gets his lane.  Harrell and Gafford are no Ayton, but they're pretty good and can approximate the offensive role between them.

 

I think we have the ingredients of a good offense that can go far in the postseason.  But I think we are absolutely lacking in defensive ability.  Gafford is the only really good defensive player on the team.  KCP is alright, but we need like three or four more rotation players of true defensive quality to get good enough to contend.  When we look at Toronto, LA, Miami, Milwaukee, and Phoenix in the years they were in the Finals, the thing they all have in common is they were dominant defensive teams.  That's what it takes to go from where we are to where we want to be IMO.

25 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Also saw that PHI asked for 7, 14, Wiseman, Wiggins and two future first rounders.  Got turned down with the quickness.

 

Good Lord.  They weren't even offering that for Beal.  Morey is shooting for the moon.

[method man]

2 hours ago, Ball Security said:

What kind of package would you put together to get Fox?  
 

Would love to have him, Beal, and Rui.

 

We have the veteran contracts and the trade exceptions to make salaries match. Include those contracts, one of Rui/Deni and future firsts. What makes things a bit complicated is the pick we gave away to Houston is under a complex scenario so that makes it harder to trade away future firsts

[Destino]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I agree with Brave that Rui can be a good second scorer.  But setting that aside, I feel that what you're saying can be broadened to say that you need a second source of high gravity so that defenses can't collapse on Beal in the postseason.  I think there is a difference between that and good individual shot creation: shot creators fall within the category of high gravity players, but so do shot makers.  A really lethal high volume shooter like Bertans was in 2019-2020 has high gravity.  And so does a dominant PnR roller and rim runner like Ayton, where he's not creating the shots himself.  If you have a really great ball handling shot creator who can pass, then you can get the gravity you need from off ball players.  When defenses collapse on Beal, if he can kick it out to good shooters, then you're fine.  If Cory Kispert or Bertans makes four or five threes in a game and the wings can no longer collapse on the ball handler, then Beal gets his space to score.  Or if the big has to drop his coverage because he has to worry about that rim runner, then Beal gets his lane.  Harrell and Gafford are no Ayton, but they're pretty good and can approximate the offensive role between them.

 

I disagree entirely about gravity being enough.  One star teams dont succeed in the post season.  There has to be a second guy, at least, that can go get you a bucket.  it’s not just about Beal being able to pass it, you can’t win if Beals production falls apart because he’s tired and off rhythm because he’s chopping his way through multiple defenders every time he touches it.  You always need a second star.  
 

Harrell according to laker and clipper fans is a garbage defender.  

 

[Hersh]

Also, bringing in Unseld Jr, I think the expectation is that Beal is gonna actually have to play a little defense. He will be run into the ground without other one or two more guys that can get their own shot. 

[Going Commando]

18 minutes ago, Destino said:

I disagree entirely about gravity being enough.  One star teams dont succeed in the post season.  There has to be a second guy, at least, that can go get you a bucket.  it’s not just about Beal being able to pass it, you can’t win if Beals production falls apart because he’s tired and off rhythm because he’s chopping his way through multiple defenders every time he touches it.  You always need a second star.  
 

Harrell according to laker and clipper fans is a garbage defender. 

 

I just don't think that's true.  You need volume scoring in multiple places, but that scoring can come from guys who aren't dribble drive shot creators.  If you have knockdown shooters that can make 4 or 5 threes a game, then that's easy, reliable scoring.  And it doesn't take a starry PG or wing to push the ball in transition and to run drive and kick half court offense if you have great shooters.  A role player PG like Holiday can do it.  I never liked the idea of combining ball dominant stars and having them take turns running offense to give the other one blow.  It's uncomplimentary and awkward and relies on one of them taking a back seat to the better one and can lead to disengagement.  What Milwaukee has won't work for us, (plus I'm not sure I'd consider Middleton a second star).  Beal isn't a holistically dominant force like Giannis, but what he does have over Giannis is that you don't have to take the ball out of his hands in crunch time to give to an isolation scorer.  Having a Middleton would presumably just take the ball out of a better player's hands.  And I also don't think of Middleton as being an out-of-reach scenario for Rui by the way.  He's not that good.

 

We can get Beal off the ball when he needs it.  A role player PG can run half court offense, Rui can play ISO ball, and Deni is a ball-handler.  There is more than one way to run good offense in the postseason, and putting a ton of shooters on the floor with a high gravity shot creator is a proven construction.  The Wizards will be able to do that with combinations of KCP, Kispert, Bertans, and Bryant.

 

The Wizards have been 7th and 3rd in scoring the past two seasons, and that's with a reductive system that was supposedly easy to figure out.  The offense isn't what is holding us back.  The problem is the defense is bottom barrel and they can't compete with the good teams on that end of the floor.  That's what we need more than anything else in order to get good enough to contend.