The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Samuels]

Davis can play the 4 so everyone's a winner.

I will be honest i've only seen 2 of his games this year but he was just a defensive monster in both. I just watched his youtube video though from nbadraft.net from his junior and senior years of high school and he can really shoot was draining 3 pointers off the dribble. I had no idea that kid can shoot like that he is a no brainer #1 pick.

watch the video

http://nbadraft.net/players/anthony-davis

[Going Commando]

Could be a sophmore slump aggravated by a short pre-season which is bound to impact a very young team more than a vet team.

By the way, on a Redskins note... some were advocating that the Redskins in their rebuild get rid of all their good players and any vet over 30. The Wizards are a prime example of why that is not a good idea. Although I guess if we did we could have walked to Luck...

Two different sports. Basketball players are so young and immature when they get to the NBA. And veterans routinely play into their mid/late 30's.

Also, like you mention, there is value in bottoming out. That'd also be the case for the NBA if they didn't have the absolutely stupid and shady lottery system.

But I agree, getting rid of all of your veteran players is foolhardy, particularly after you draft your QB of the future. You need things like savvy, veteran wide receivers because having everyone learn on the job at the same time would be UGLY.

---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 12:33 PM ----------

So if we have the #1 pick:

Do we take Davis and look to sign and trade McGee.

Do we trade down a few spots?

Do we draft someone else #1?

Keep McGee. Davis and McGee would be an amazing defensive front court. Davis is definitely a PF at the next level IMO. Way too skinny to play center in the NBA.

Davis does have offensive upside and he's already got a pretty high BBall IQ. Fantastic passing skills (like Drummond), good ball handler with fantastic foot coordination. Huge motor and gifted rebounder. Fantastic hands and soft touch.

There is some Joakim Noah to his game on the defensive end IMO.

He just doesn't have any big man scoring skills yet. No surprise considering how long he has been a big man, but the issue is if we can afford to wait on a long developing project.

Personally, if we're picking first overall I think you ABSOLUTELY have to take the uber gifted big like Drummond or Davis. When you're that terrible and that fortunate to draft first oeverall in a special year, you need to be taking the very long view. Davis and Drummond have franchise player potential. If Wall walked mid rebuild you'd still have your franchise player, at arguably a more important position than PG.

I agree with Samuels that Drummond scares me a little and that I don't prefer him to Davis. Drummond isn't nearly as explosive as Davis is and he's such a high cut dude, I don't think he'll ever be a center in the Hakeem mold. It's his ready made power that people are so crazy about, 250 some odd pounds at 16 or 17 years old with some natural grace on the floor. He's also young and has a tendency to defer, not an aggressive, alpha type.

One other thing to keep in mind with Davis is that he's going to be playing through some pain for a while after having gone through such a growth spurt. Remember Wall last year? That's going to limit him some. He also needs to add a ton of strength and fill out his new frame, which will take a while. We'd need to be patient with him. But the potential payoff could be huge.

---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 12:35 PM ----------

Who exactly is comparing Davis to Dwight Howard? They are two ENTIRELY different players. If anthing, I think Davis projects well to Marcus Camby, but with a higher offensive upside.

I can see some Dwight in terms of length, aggressiveness, skills, and explosiveness, plus defensive motor. He's not as strong as Dwight was though. And it will be a while before he ever gets close to as strong as Dwight is now (if he ever gets there).

I think Camby undersells Davis's explosiveness quite a bit.

---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 12:42 PM ----------

In my opinion this draft has about 10 players who can start and contribute to your team right away, but it doesn't have a Durrant/Wade/LeBron/Howard/Griffin type franchise Super Star who everyone knows is going to be a star right out of the gate.

Sullinger and Lamb are probably the safest bets to turn into a Robin for John Wall (Batman) so we all have to hope that Wall reaches his potential (like I think he will)

I like Lamb but I wouldn't be excited about taking someone like him in the top three. He's too one dimensional, and I feel like players like him are kind of common. Guys like him come out every year. I see a lot of Rip Hamilton comparisons with him and I think they fit fairly well although Lamb looks a lot shorter than Rip. Plus Lamb is really skinny.

Sullinger is a giant with legit skills. 280 pounds and he throws his weight around. I have a hard time seeing him bust and he'll probably be productive early because he can shoot, rebound, and has a post game.

[Destino]

I will be honest i've only seen 2 of his games this year but he was just a defensive monster in both. I just watched his youtube video though from nbadraft.net from his junior and senior years of high school and he can really shoot was draining 3 pointers off the dribble. I had no idea that kid can shoot like that he is a no brainer #1 pick.

watch the video

http://nbadraft.net/players/anthony-davis

You know normally I'm all about defense but watching this team play this year I've switched offense to the top of my wishlist. Think about it, let's say we do get the best defensive big man in the draft that can score in the low teens. Who on this team does the scoring? We aren't anywhere near the top of the points allowed list... we are one team from the bottom on points scored. How Davis projects on the offensive end interests me.

BTW - picture what Davis, McGee, and Vesely would look like on the floor together. I would dub them the Gangly Gang.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Destino

[Gator Bait]

BTW - picture what Davis, McGee, and Vesely would look like on the floor together. I would dub them the Gangly Gang.

Front court would be awesome as long as you had a 20 ppg scorer at the 2....which we don't have.

[Going Commando]

I will be honest i've only seen 2 of his games this year but he was just a defensive monster in both. I just watched his youtube video though from nbadraft.net from his junior and senior years of high school and he can really shoot was draining 3 pointers off the dribble. I had no idea that kid can shoot like that he is a no brainer #1 pick.

watch the video

http://nbadraft.net/players/anthony-davis

The first look I got at Davis was at the Nike Hoops Summit which had a ton of great players playing for both the American and World teams. Teague, Gilchrist, McAdoo, Beal, Rivers were all on the American roster with him and Bismack, Bertans, Wiltjer, Fornier, and Noguiera were all on the World team. Davis's talent level absolutely exploded off the screen and it was clear he was the most gifted player on the floor. He was comfortable setting up his teammates, but his ability to get offensive rebounds, catch lobs and crush the rim was special.

Like you, I like Gilchrist too. I think he's a really well rounded player with a lot of upside to develop as a quality shooter and scorer. I think he brings the best intangibles to the table in the draft and is a natural alpha leader type. He should have no weaknesses in the NBA and can handle the ball well enough to play the two or the three. Pippenesque multi-skilled point forward.

[Samuels]

You know normally I'm all about defense but watching this team play this year I've switched offense to the top of my wishlist. Think about it, let's say we do get the best defensive big man in the draft that can score in the low teens. Who on this team does the scoring? We aren't anywhere near the top of the points allowed list... we are one team from the bottom on points scored. How Davis projects on the offensive end interests me.

BTW - picture what Davis, McGee, and Vesely would look like on the floor together. I would dub them the Gangly Gang.

I think alot of our offensive problems will be fixed with time. We need shooters no doubt but Flips system is built to get guys open jump shots and thats not the strenght of this team. I'd be willing to bet this team would look drastically different and alot better offensively and defensively if a vet pick&roll coach were hired like Sloan or JVG.

Nick Young needs to be force fed the ball at this point running off screens even if he is alittle off. You have guys like Crawford and Blatche that are just chuckers. Crawford brings the ball up and decides to go 1 on 1 and Flip lets him its ridiculus. Crawford in my opinion in that 4th quarter stretch blew any chance we had at winning. REALITY check young fella your not MJ and never will be.

[Destino]

I think alot of our offensive problems will be fixed with time. We need shooters no doubt but Flips system is built to get guys open jump shots and thats not the strenght of this team. I'd be willing to bet this team would look drastically different and alot better offensively and defensively if a vet pick&roll coach were hired like Sloan or JVG.

Nick Young needs to be force fed the ball at this point running off screens even if he is alittle off. You have guys like Crawford and Blatche that are just chuckers. Crawford brings the ball up and decides to go 1 on 1 and Flip lets him its ridiculus. Crawford in my opinion in that 4th quarter stretch blew any chance we had at winning. REALITY check young fella your not MJ and never will be.

I assume improvement over time as well, especially when you consider the age of these players. McGee is already showing improvement. Wall, Singleton, Booker, Vesely, Mack, and Crawford are all first or second year players. Their shots will improve.

The one thing I will say though, is that pick and roll or not, you aren't winning in the post season without shooting. It's essential for floor spacing and defenses in the post season game plan specifically against their opponents.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

This is what this thread needs to be about. Kill the ****ing and moaning.

[Chachie]

The one thing I will say though, is that pick and roll or not, you aren't winning in the post season without shooting. It's essential for floor spacing and defenses in the post season game plan specifically against their opponents.

"Playoffs?!?! Playoffs??"

[RonArtest15]

SM....I think Davis compares VERY well defensively to Marcus Camby when he came out of UMass. Says a lot about Davis, because Camby had 2 years up on him. That being said, his frame will allow him to get stronger, but no where near the level of Dwight Howard. Dude has a ridiculous upper-body. Anyways...

Let me ask yall...assuming Blatche won't be moved (and on the heels of him going up to NYC to see a shoulder specialist today), is the ideal scenario to use the amenesty clause on him in the summer of 2012, and then try to find a trade partner who would want Shard's expiring contract? If the Wizards could find someone to take Blatche off their hands and keep that amnesty clause in their back pocket, that would be amazing. I don't think the clause should be used on Shard though. I think the team (as bad as they are) can tough it out with him on the roster for the rest of the year. I have a feeling that SOMEONE will want that contract going into the 2012-13 season.

*Randon, but Kevin Seraphin looks HORRIBLE. His agent did a hell of a job putting that clause in his contract about not playing in the D-LEague. Dude looks like he'd hardly get burn at Montrose Christian. He's really....REALLY bad. Just a space eater. Waste of a pick, IMO.

[Going Commando]

Don't salaries have to match up pretty closely on a trade? If we trade Rashard's contract, doesn't that mean we'll have to get some real crap back in return?

[Gator Bait]

is the ideal scenario to use the amenesty clause on him in the summer of 2012, and then try to find a trade partner who would want Shard's expiring contract? If the Wizards could find someone to take Blatche off their hands and keep that amnesty clause in their back pocket, that would be amazing. I don't think the clause should be used on Shard though. I think the team (as bad as they are) can tough it out with him on the roster for the rest of the year.

.

you don't use the amnesty on a guy making 8 million a year. You save it for a max level player who doesn't pan out (which happens all the time in the NBA) No need in dropping money off the books when we aren't going to spend it on free agents.

---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 02:37 PM ----------

Don't salaries have to match up pretty closely on a trade? If we trade Rashard's contract, doesn't that mean we'll have to get some real crap back in return?

no....the salary match got loosed up even more in the new CBA. Also, you could trade away one expiring contract for multiple other players adding up to that expiring you are trading. I don't think anyone will trade for Rashard's contract. I think we end up waiving him next year and taking the 10 million dollar cap hit rather than keeping him, buying him out, or trading him.

[RonArtest15]

you don't use the amnesty on a guy making 8 million a year. You save it for a max level player who doesn't pan out (which happens all the time in the NBA) No need in dropping money off the books when we aren't going to spend it on free agents.

---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 02:37 PM ----------

no....the salary match got loosed up even more in the new CBA. Also, you could trade away one expiring contract for multiple other players adding up to that expiring you are trading. I don't think anyone will trade for Rashard's contract. I think we end up waiving him next year and taking the 10 million dollar cap hit rather than keeping him, buying him out, or trading him.

So if there are no takers for Blatche via trade, what then?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Surprised you don't know about this stevem

NBA trade machine: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

And doesn't the amnesty need to be used on a player who was alread signed when the new CBA was agreed to? if so, that really narrows down who we can use it on.

[Samuels]

Surprised you don't know about this stevem

NBA trade machine: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

And doesn't the amnesty need to be used on a player who was alread signed when the new CBA was agreed to? if so, that really narrows down who we can use it on.

realgm.com has a awesome trade kicker as well. Not sure how many of you are users over there I don't post much but been a member for years. Its a good basketball forum.

[Gator Bait]

Surprised you don't know about this stevem

NBA trade machine: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

And doesn't the amnesty need to be used on a player who was alread signed when the new CBA was agreed to? if so, that really narrows down who we can use it on.

forgot about this....can't be used on new contracts. By all means....amnesty him right away!!!!!! Use the waive clause in Rashard's contract that will cut him from the team and only pay out 10 million rather than the 20+ that he will count against us if we keep him!

[Going Commando]

Surprised you don't know about this stevem

NBA trade machine: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

And doesn't the amnesty need to be used on a player who was alread signed when the new CBA was agreed to? if so, that really narrows down who we can use it on.

I've used trade machine before but it's such a pain in the ass to get the contracts appropriately aligned. Math isn't my strong suit. I know the rule is something like 125% of the contract is taken back by one of the teams if the deal puts a team over the soft cap but I can't remember which one it is or what the implications are other than the total salaries on both ends of the trade need to be fairly close.

I have a hard time thinking of a team that would be able to offer us something that makes sense for us that would get close enough to Rashard's deal to make the trade worth our while.

The team would need the be trying to clear a ton of salary to make a run at a Free agent, meaning they'd probably be trading off poopy contracts that we would hopefully have absolutely no interest in picking up. I'm thinking a team like the Magic or the Mavericks--trying to make a run at a guy like Dwight Howard, and there isn't a single other player on either of those teams that interests me aside from Dwight and Dirk, who obviously would not be a part of any deal. As far as I know, the Mavs have already cleared out their bad deals in preparation of FA anyway.

To incentivize the deal for us, they would have to throw in something like first round draft picks. Why would we want a bunch of late 20s draft picks though? I doubt a team picking in the lottery would give that up to take on Rashard's contract because that would mean they're ready to make their run now. Who is in that situation right now? New Jersey?

Our long term advantage as an organization is that we're terrible right now, are working on a bunch of rookie contracts, and have the immediate flexibility to take on short term awful contracts in order to get long term quality in return along with that short term millstone.

Finding the right taker for Rashard's deal will be very hard and complicated because there can't be many teams around the league in the right situation to offer us something appealing in return. We're almost better off just letting Rashard's contract come off our own books in the next two years and clear out a ton of room for us. We could extend Wall with the money and find him a max deal partner in crime if there was one that was worth it (DeMarcus Cousins...)

---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 06:36 PM ----------

Can someone explain to me how Rashard's contract can come off the books for next season? As far as I can tell next year is the expiring year of his deal and I can't find any information on whether he's got any options in the deal.

If next year is the expiring year of his deal then he doesn't help us trade with teams who are looking to make a run at the FAs this summer like Deron and Dwight.

[Skin'emAlive]

This is what this thread needs to be about. Kill the ****ing and moaning.

You mean a thread about guys that arent on our team? This isnt a draft thread, and we are like only 3 weeks into the season!

[Rocky21]

I know there are some Grantland readers on this site. if not, you're sure to get a kick out of this.

House is Bill Simmons' buddy from college I think? and he is a fellow long suffering Washington sports fan. (How we describe ourselves these days.)

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/13834/the-ghost-of-jim-mcilvaine

And House, if you're reading this (I don't tweet) really loved the Flop comment, kiss cam idea, count down clock and disguise...although I think at one point Arenas may have been more hated.....but yeah our captain is damn close.

[Destino]

I know there are some Grantland readers on this site. if not, you're sure to get a kick out of this.

House is Bill Simmons' buddy from college I think? and he is a fellow long suffering Washington sports fan. (How we describe ourselves these days.)

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/13834/the-ghost-of-jim-mcilvaine

And House, if you're reading this (I don't tweet) really loved the Flop comment, kiss cam idea, count down clock and disguise...although I think at one point Arenas may have been more hated.....but yeah our captain is damn close.

So many fun lines in this. "Like Teddy said, this season is about pain. I can think of no better torturer than Flip."

[gbear]

I liked the beginning of our only win, and I've seen that defensive effort a few other games. It just needs to be there throughout an entire game no matter what the score is.

I liked the link, but I don't think Blatch is anywhere near the most hated DC sports figure ever. D. Sanders was a Skin for a season is one which comes to mind. I don't think he is even up to Fat Albert's level, but that may only be because of the area's fixation on the Skins.

[StillUnknown]

I liked the beginning of our only win, and I've seen that defensive effort a few other games. It just needs to be there throughout an entire game no matter what the score is.

I liked the link, but I don't think Blatch is anywhere near the most hated DC sports figure ever. D. Sanders was a Skin for a season is one which comes to mind. I don't think he is even up to Fat Albert's level, but that may only be because of the area's fixation on the Skins.

In terms of passionate hatred within the fanbase, Blatche easily eclipses Deion and is running neck and neck with Fat Al.

Edited January 13, 2012 by StillUnknown

[Going Commando]

I just read the grantland article. That guy isn't a professional writer, he's a little too meandering and there is too much inside joke tone. Of his suggestions, I think he's kind of missing the point on most of them.

He's right about Blatche. Blatche needs to be traded. Not for just anything because he does have value as a 6'11 270 pound big that can run and shoot. Some idiot will trade for him just like someone did for Kwame Brown. Maybe the return won't be as good as that trade's, but we'll get something from him.

But he's way off on the course the rebuild needs to take. His goals of trying to win as few games as possible contradicts the courses of action he suggests. I think Leonsis is actually spot on and I understand his methodology. Young players will make mistakes but they will learn in the process. But the team will also get hammered by short sighted public perception in the process as well.

I think keeping Rashard was absolutely the right decision in all accounts. Are we trying to get to the playoffs and make a run right now? No. That's all amnestying him would have been good for. Instead we've got his massive contract coming off the books next season when we'll be more competitive and able to start thinking about wooing free agents. We keep the amnesty trump card in our pockets for the future. And we didn't have to go searching for some nobody SF body to throw out on the floor while we're terrible.

He's also wrong about Flip IMO. Flip's failure to develop the young talent we do have is becoming a problem. The system doesn't suit the players and they're lack of success seems like it's hurting their confidence. The potential harm done to our existing core outweighs the benefits of self inflicted tanking from keeping Flip. The lottery system is dirty anyway, you can't rely on tanking. You all know we'll finish with the best or second best chance for the first pick in the lottery and still end up picking sixth.

The Wizards were a .500 team at home last season oddly enough. If you're paying to attend the games, there's probably close to a 50% chance you'll see a win, which isn't that bad. Even still, if you're paying to attend the games, you should go in expecting to lose, and if you want to get something out of your money, enjoy watching the young guys play hard and look for signs of progress in them.

That's the only way to keep sane watching a terrible team slog through a rebuild--closely manage your expectations. This guy hasn't quite figured that out.

---------- Post added January-13th-2012 at 11:38 AM ----------

D.C. is like a somewhat more polite version of Philly or New York in terms of the fan base. We're not totally classless and childish like they are, although we can come close at times. But our fan base will turn on a player who is lazy and/or underachieving in our view and rip him mercilessly until his confidence is destroyed and he rues the day he ever put on our uniform. That was Blatche's problem. He didn't give enough of a **** to try hard and earned the hatred of the fan base last season. Then he responded terribly to the criticism by getting childish and lashing out at the fan base in retaliation. Well, and he's not good. The trifecta to end up on the **** list.

[Destino]

Blatche is no where near as hated as Haynesworth. I think the people that do hate him hate him with an irrational passion so the ceiling of hatred is high. The number of fans that hate him though doesn't compare as Haynesworth was as close to universally hated as an athlete has ever been in DC IMO. The thing that stops Blatche from reaching this level is that unlike Haynesworth he does contribute and he doesn't have nearly as much drama in the media. Haynesworth was a constant never ending media story that seemed to get worse when you thought it couldn't.

I was sure the redskins didn't need Haynesworth as he wasn't playing much to begin with. I watched the Wizards play the Bulls without Blatche and they scored 64 points. I don't think anyone would argue that Blatche would have won that game had he played, but we simply don't have the offensive weapons to say he's a complete liability at this point. His contract is too long but his per year isn't something stunning. Haynesworth on the other hand was the 100 million dollar man that didn't want to do anything.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Destino

[Gator Bait]

]Can someone explain to me how Rashard's contract can come off the books for next season? As far as I can tell next year is the expiring year of his deal and I can't find any information on whether he's got any options in the deal.

There is an option on his contract where he is cut and paid 10 million rather than the 20+ he is paid if he is on the roster. Kind of like an already pre-bargained buy out clause. He will still count 10 million against our cap, but he will be off the roster and wont account for the 20+ he would be owed otherwise.

---------- Post added January-13th-2012 at 01:32 PM ----------

In terms of passionate hatred within the fanbase, Blatche easily eclipses Deion and is running neck and neck with Fat Al.

Blatche isn't even close to Albert! Personally he isn't close to Deion either....I know some actually liked Deion while he was here (I hated him). I also think Stevenson is higher on the list, but that is debatable.