The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

The short of it is that Thibs has kept Chicago prosperous despite losing a former league MVP. Randy Wittman is a career assistant with a winning percentage below .400.

I'll forever hate Eddie Jordan for running Thibs out of town. We were SOOOOO close to having a legit coach here. So close.

Edited April 19, 2014 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[RonArtest15]

I was originially on the fence about Gortat.  However, he more than proved his value to the team as the season went on.  He's a much better fit for this squad than Greg Monroe.  When he was traded here, there was a lot of uncertainty.  However, I'll take our unknown in the playoffs over the 18th pick in the draft any day of the week.  Even w/ Gortat being 30, he's a "young" 30.  Not a lot of wear and tear on his body, and I hope that he's re-upped here in DC for another 3 years or so.  He's a big piece to any future success this team is going to have. 

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Totally agree. Gortat is an absolute MUST resign. And they need to let Ariza walk.

[RonArtest15]

Totally agree. Gortat is an absolute MUST resign. And they need to let Ariza walk.

 

Yup...Ariza gotta go. 

 

We need to see what we have with Otto.  His defense will be missed, but if Otto can show that he can hit the corner 3 w/ regularity and Martell steps up, I think we can soften the blow of letting Ariza walk next season. 

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Yup. All that. Plus I want to make sure we have the money in the dream come true, off chance that KD does want to come home.

[CrypticVillain]

Yeah, I don't think Ariza should comeback either. You know what, he might fit in good with a team like the Hornets. I kind of like the sound of a big three with Kemba, Ariza, and Jefferson....

It'll suck for us though, but we can't let Otto chill on the bench this year. Gotta see what he can do.

[Destino]

I was originially on the fence about Gortat. However, he more than proved his value to the team as the season went on. He's a much better fit for this squad than Greg Monroe. When he was traded here, there was a lot of uncertainty. However, I'll take our unknown in the playoffs over the 18th pick in the draft any day of the week. Even w/ Gortat being 30, he's a "young" 30. Not a lot of wear and tear on his body, and I hope that he's re-upped here in DC for another 3 years or so. He's a big piece to any future success this team is going to have.

I want both Monroe and Gortat. Nene's health is a problem and I'd rather he find a new home. Matching Wall and Beal with bigs can move their feet and stay healthy would be nice. Detroit can move JSmoove to the 4 and have better spacing than they do with their current front line. They've got a monster in Drummond to build around, averaging 13 and 13 at .623 fg% in his second year? Dude might be a force of nature by the end if year 4. They can stand to lose Monroe.

[RonArtest15]

I want both Monroe and Gortat. Nene's health is a problem and I'd rather he find a new home. Matching Wall and Beal with bigs can move their feet and stay healthy would be nice. Detroit can move JSmoove to the 4 and have better spacing than they do with their current front line. They've got a monster in Drummond to build around, averaging 13 and 13 at .623 fg% in his second year? Dude might be a force of nature by the end if year 4. They can stand to lose Monroe.

 

Can we afford both? 

 

*edit (re-signing Gortat and signing Monroe)

Edited April 20, 2014 by RonArtest15

[Going Commando]

I was originially on the fence about Gortat.  However, he more than proved his value to the team as the season went on.  He's a much better fit for this squad than Greg Monroe.  When he was traded here, there was a lot of uncertainty.  However, I'll take our unknown in the playoffs over the 18th pick in the draft any day of the week.  Even w/ Gortat being 30, he's a "young" 30.  Not a lot of wear and tear on his body, and I hope that he's re-upped here in DC for another 3 years or so.  He's a big piece to any future success this team is going to have.

Yeah I agree with everyone else, a Gortat extension is an absolute must. He's become a really crucial part of the team's identity. And he pairs with Wall sooo well. He has to be priority #1 this offseason, we're going to be hurting bad if he leaves. He likes it here though, and we like him. I have a hard time seeing him leave.

I liked Greg Monroe at first too, but I think the only reason was his age. Other than that, Gortat is a better fit. He does the dirty work. And he's not a diva at all, Monroe has a little bit of diva in him.

The only thing I really wish we had (aside from Durant) is more time and better health with our older players, and a big man that can shoot. A real pick and pop threat.

I think we got lucky with Okafor last season and Gortat this season. Kind of take for granted how important a really good role playing center play is to our success, and how hard that could be to replace. I would absolutely make the Gortat trade again. 18th pick for a good starting center is nothing. The Okafor deal wasn't helping us at all without getting moved, expiring contracts have tricky value because only a couple teams will ever value them. Especially in a year where team's are putting a high value on lottery picks and the FA market is underwhelming. That trade saved our season and we were lucky Phoenix made Gortat available. We don't make the playoffs without him, and the future of our whole rebuild is uncertain like Cleveland's.

[Going Commando]

Yeah, I don't think Ariza should comeback either. You know what, he might fit in good with a team like the Hornets. I kind of like the sound of a big three with Kemba, Ariza, and Jefferson....

It'll suck for us though, but we can't let Otto chill on the bench this year. Gotta see what he can do.

Totally agree. Gortat is an absolute MUST resign. And they need to let Ariza walk.

 

 

Yup...Ariza gotta go. 

 

We need to see what we have with Otto.  His defense will be missed, but if Otto can show that he can hit the corner 3 w/ regularity and Martell steps up, I think we can soften the blow of letting Ariza walk next season.

I think I agree with all of you about Ariza. This is the thing I have the hardest time making my mind up about.

On one level, I think all of you are right about Porter. He needs to develop and play. He was too costly, and has too much upside not to play.

But damned if it isn't really really really hard to let a good player just walk out the door. It wasn't that long ago when we were playing Al Thornton, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Chris Singleton, Cartier Martin, and Maurice Evans. SF is such an important position too. They have to do everything, letting a good one go is a risk.

You all saw the Bad Boys Pistons documentary. You saw the importance of chemistry played out in that team. It's everything. Ariza is important for our chemistry and he's got a special thing going with Wall in particular. I worry that letting that go could be really bad for morale. Wall in particular.

So if the team extends Ariza, I'll understand why. I'll be fine with it. Especially if we can maybe get a shorter deal for a higher dollar amount. I lean towards letting him walk to try and use the money for a stretch 4--Patrick Patterson in particular. And I want Otto to play and develop ASAP. I also like Webster and don't want to have to trade him.

But I definitely don't want to tank our chemistry and I don't want the team to lose their friend when we can afford to keep him and he's definitely still a good player.

Then still another consideration is the contract year factor...

It's a really tough call and I'm glad I'm not in charge because I don't think I could make this decision.

One last thing, is there a history of a very young player like Porter successfully developing without playing much his first three seasons or so? Because if there is, that would definitely make me feel better about giving Ariza an extension. If it's unheard of, then that kind of settles our decision for us because we can't afford to fail with Porter.

[Going Commando]

Yup. All that. Plus I want to make sure we have the money in the dream come true, off chance that KD does want to come home.

Yeah, we kind of have to keep that opportunity at least in the realm of possibility. We're the only other franchise he'd play for.

But it would certainly suck to potentially punt two seasons by letting talent walk and have him never seriously consider leaving OKC.

And maybe there is a way we can still clear up money for KD the summer he hits FA even if we keep this group together. Make some trades?

[Going Commando]

BTW, if Durant wins a ring in OKC, he'll never leave. Players of his stature that get their rings don't leave until they're washed up, if ever.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Just off the top of my head, McGrady took a couple of years to get going. Jermaine O'Neal took about five years (no exaggeration) to do anything. Both of them were straight out of high school though so I'm not sure if that fits what you're looking for.

[Mocountyskins]

BTW, if Durant wins a ring in OKC, he'll never leave. Players of his stature that get their rings don't leave until they're washed up, if ever.

I think Lebron is going to leave Miami

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Just going through the drafts over the last decade. I'll add players as I go. And I'll try to skip high schoolers.

First up though is Kevin Martin

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/martike02.html

I don't know how much injuries played a part in his rookie season. He was averaging 20 points per by his third year though

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

JJ Reddick didn't do anything his first few years. He's not a star or anything now but he's a valuable player

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/redicjj01.html

Rondo

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

Noah took a couple of years to get going

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html

Edited April 20, 2014 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Going Commando]

I think Lebron is going to leave Miami

It wouldn't shock me, but I think he stays. But I think Miami is going to have an extremely difficult time maintaining a contender around him.

Nobody is really talking about it, but they're not really in a good situation with Wade. If Miami wants to become the Spurs, then he needs to take a massive paycut for them. Bosh needs to take a paycut for them too, he's not a max player for them.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Aaron Brooks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brookaa01.html

What the **** happened to him? Averaged 20 and 5 his third year and hasn't come anywhere close to that since

Danilo Gallinari

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gallida01.html

Edited April 20, 2014 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Hersh]

JJ Reddick didn't do anything his first few years. He's not a star or anything now but he's a valuable player

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/redicjj01.html

Rondo

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

Noah took a couple of years to get going

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html

 

But none of those guys were top 3 picks who generally play big minutes from the get go. Ariza or Webster needs to go.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Serge Ibaka

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ibakase01.html

But none of those guys were top 3 picks who generally play big minutes from the get go. Ariza or Webster needs to go.

He asked for players that were invisible their rookie years and developed into keepers from there. That's how I took his request anyway.

Any of these making you feel better Steve?

Hmmm, me and Stephen Curry share a bday. Cool deal

DeRozen wasn't quite at Otto-levels his rookie year but he exploded year 1 to year 2

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html

Evan Turner? I guess?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turneev01.html

Derrick Favors finally starting to step up this year

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/favorde01.html

Gordon Hayward

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html

Paul George kinda

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html

Me, Stephen Curry and local boy Patrick Patterson ALL share a bday. Cool. TIL.

Anyway, Eric Bledsoe for sure

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bledser01.html

Enes Kanter was a top 3 pick. He's not a star but he's definitely developing into a keeper

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

Edited April 20, 2014 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Going Commando]

Just off the top of my head, McGrady took a couple of years to get going. Jermaine O'Neal took about five years (no exaggeration) to do anything. Both of them were straight out of high school though so I'm not sure if that fits what you're looking for.

No I'm not looking for a parallel to Porter necessarily. I'm just looking for an example of a high pick or a promising talent who was able to learn and develop mostly from the bench. I've assumed that you really have to play to develop. I assume you need a role and you need to learn by doing.

What about Rodman, since we're making the Bad Boys comparisons? He was a 25 year old rookie. And he came off the bench behind Adrian Dantley and Mark Aguirre most of his first four years.

That team was deep. Rodman and Salley and Vinnie Johnson on the bench. I don't know if teams can get that deep any more. So I don't know if the comparison to Porter can hold up.

Another path we might be able to take to get Porter minutes is really getting Ariza time at PF. Or Porter. Porter played PF the whole second half of last season at Georgetown. And Ariza has shown adaptability in his game. Maybe as he gets older, he becomes more and more of a stretch four.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Well that's it. I'm sure I missed a few. And boy, that was depressing. Kind of like the basketball version of the Vietnam War Memorial. So many names I recognized and soooo many busts.

[Going Commando]

Yeah, I think there is more of a track record for developing talented young players slowly off the bench than you hear about.

Derrick Favors is a really interesting comparison. He's a keeper too. Young like Porter. Talented. 3rd overall pick. Had his path to starting firmly blocked by better veterans in Millsap and Jefferson.

An important difference with him is that he's really supposed to be THE guy in Utah now. Porter will never have that burden here.

If we keep Ariza, then increased minutes for Porter probably come at Webster's expense.

To Porter's credit, he doesn't seem like the type to get frustrated by being brought along slowly. He's a team first guy.

[RonArtest15]

I think Lebron has too much respect for Pat Riley to leave.  I don't see him going anywhere.  Besides...Lebron is a big enough draw for other players that they'd be willing to take a paycut to come to Miami.  Riley & Co. will do something to re-tool that roster. 

 

*Gotta agree w/ SM.  If Durant wins a ring in OKC, there isn't a chance he comes to DC. 

[Going Commando]

I think Miami gets D Wade to take a huge paycut to like 9 million a year or so. That's probably what he's worth at this point. Bosh needs to take a pay cut into Duncan territory IMO. He's not worth a max deal for what he does there. Then they'd have real flexibility to get good players. Getting a real center would be huge for them.