The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[nuposse87]

Yes Otto is the safe pick. However, we need a big man who can be a star next season moreso than a SF. We can get by with Martell and Trevor next season at SF and sign another guy like a Babbitt for depth. However, we know Nene will miss at least 20-30 games next season and I have a feeling a guy who has been as unhealthy as Okafor will miss a significant chunk as well. If we have the likes of Seraphin and Booker playing starter minutes, we are screwed next season. 

 

I think #3 + Vesely + Singleton + our trade exception for Milsap + #14 should get it done. Draft Schroeder and swap our 2 2nds + cash for a late first to get Withey and we should be set

 

PG: Wall / Schroeder / Price

SG: Beal / Barbosa (signed for minimum) / Martin

SF: Webster / Ariza / Babbitt

PF: Milsap / Nene / Booker

C: Okafor / Seraphin / WIthey

 

The notion that we'd have to give up the number 3 pick for him is Milsap is insane. He's an UFA, he can walk for nothing. All you have to do is offer UTAH expirings and a top 10 protected '14 1st+2nd+Booker and he's here. If they value a stretch 4 that much then just draft Bennett and be done with it. That guy has star potential, not sure he'll reach it but any scenaio in which we give up the 3rd and one of Kanter or Cousins isn't coming back is probably going to be meaningless trade for us moving forward. 

[Going Commando]

How about the #3 pick and next years 1st plus expiring contracts Ariza and Okafor in a sign and trade for Dwight Howard?

 

I don't particularly like Howard but you resign Webster to give you a starting 5 of:

 

Wall

Beal

Webster

Nene

Howard

 

 

On a more realistic note, the Wizards need to decide on Webster to determine this pick. If they resign Webster, go PF. No Webster means go SF.

 

I actually proposed almost this exact trade on RealGM.  No response.  It'd be an ideal situation for LA if Dwight let them know he didn't want to come back.  Cleveland is the only other team that could beat an offer we could make.  Houston, Dallas, and Golden State certainly could not without compromising their core.

 

And I think Wall + Beal + Dwight would be good enough to win a championship when Wall and Beal mature.  It'd be a good situation for Dwight because he could go to a contender where he would get to be the man, lots of young talent, and he gets his full contract extension.  He'd have his cake and eat it too.

 

Everybody wins.  Except we're not on Dwight's list.  So he could just say no, I'm not signing.  And the Lakers are going to be irrational about this and try and cling to him and force him to leave the money on the table if he leaves.  I'm thinking they won't do an S&T.

 

This even though it's clear to everyone else in the NBA he's not a good fit for them and they just need to tear it down and rebuild from the ground up.

 

On the second part of your post, I like Webster, but he's not good enough to effect the decision at 3.  The only guys we have to build around are Wall and Beal.  Everything else is on the table.  Webster can come off the bench as the sixth man at SG and SF.

[RonArtest15]

Dwight here in DC would be interesting.  I'm lukewarm on him (as of now).  I'd want a clean bill of health before any deal is made.  Having him along with Beal/Wall would alter the dynamics of the EC.  ON PAPER, you'd have to at least put the Wizards in contention for a 2-4 seed going forward. 

[method man]

If McLemore fell to us at #3 would you consider trading Beal and possibly a player for Greg Monroe?  

 

Wall - Price

McLemore - Hot Garbage 

Webster - Ariza 

Nene - Hot Garbage 

Monroe - Okafor - Seraphin 

 

If we were to trade Beal, I'd rather have Oladipo. Oladipo is the guy who has all the traits that a team like San Antonio or OKC would look for. I see a guy who will be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and will be incredibly efficient offensively.

 

McLemore has a great shot and is athletic but there are too many questions regarding his game, especially the intangibles.

[method man]

The notion that we'd have to give up the number 3 pick for him is Milsap is insane. He's an UFA, he can walk for nothing. All you have to do is offer UTAH expirings and a top 10 protected '14 1st+2nd+Booker and he's here. If they value a stretch 4 that much then just draft Bennett and be done with it. That guy has star potential, not sure he'll reach it but any scenaio in which we give up the 3rd and one of Kanter or Cousins isn't coming back is probably going to be meaningless trade for us moving forward. 

 

Why would Utah take on a minimum of $8M of unwanted salary for a pick outside the top 10??? The only thing that can justify taking on $8M of garbage salary is being able to get a Burke or McLemore

[Going Commando]

Dwight here in DC would be interesting.  I'm lukewarm on him (as of now).  I'd want a clean bill of health before any deal is made.  Having him along with Beal/Wall would alter the dynamics of the EC.  ON PAPER, you'd have to at least put the Wizards in contention for a 2-4 seed going forward. 

 

If you get Orlando Dwight and not LA Dwight, that's a team that could take it to Chicago and Miami.

 

I personally think Dwight is still the guy he used to be.  I think he just had a bad year and a lot of off court stuff and his injury messed him up.  Him struggling for Mike Dantoni and that Laker construction was predictable and understandable.  That team was poorly built.

 

We'd flat out have more talent than Chicago if Dwight came here.  Be a better version of them.

 

And there will come a point, very soon, where Beal will be able to dominate the match up with Wade.  Howard has been better than Bosh for a while.  So you'd be trading Wall's production for LeBron's.  And though LeBron is always going to be better than Wall, Wall is going to get to the point where he's the second or third best player in the East and be able to keep a close distance behind him.  Plus we've got Nene.  We would be able to eat Miami up inside.  It would be a really tough match up for Miami, because unlike Chicago and Indiana, we will actually be able to score.

 

But again, I don't see the Lakers or Dwight having the vision to see a potential deal that would benefit everyone.  I doubt we're even on Dwight's radar.  I doubt a S&T is even being seriously considered by LA.

[Going Commando]

I would rather have Beal and Porter than Monroe and Dipo/McLemore.

 

Beal is better than McLemore and Dipo.  Neither could have gone three in last year's class.

 

And Porter is going to be a little better than Monroe.  Monroe has exceeded expectations in the NBA.  So will Porter.  Porter dominated the Big East and carried a weak GTown team to a 2 seed by himself.  Greg Monroe was good at GTown,.but he wasn't that good.  Jim Boeheim said Porter is the best all around player to ever come through the Big East.  He knows Greg Monroe.  Porter might be the best GTown prospect to come out since Iverson.

[nuposse87]

Why would Utah take on a minimum of $8M of unwanted salary for a pick outside the top 10??? The only thing that can justify taking on $8M of garbage salary is being able to get a Burke or McLemore

 

I'm making an assumption here, but I think the organization in Utah knows they won't get anyone in this draft that could make them into a playoff contender. And while I doubt a mid teen pick next year will change their fortunes too, you're assuming people are simply going to offer top 5 picks for milsap...this is flat out stupid. He can walk. Utah has little to no leverage. Why would you offer the third this year? The package I offered allows for a couple things, an expiring that clears some cap for '14, a 2nd round pick this year they can use as they like, and probably a mid teen pick next year in a fairly deep draft (or so they say). Now would you rather have cap room in a year where no one out there can really turn your franchises' fortunes around or next season when some decent FAs will be available? Not to mention some picks. 

 

Offering up the 3rd immediately makes me question your bargaining skills. 

[Destino]

You can't compare a good SF to a good C. The value of a good center is far higher even if the wing player is slightly better. Monroe would be a much bigger building block than Porter is likely to be.  Which is not to say Monroe is great, I just don't see allstar when I look at Porter.  

 

Beal is good but I'm not sure him and McLemore would be all that far apart if they were in the same draft class. McLemore has better numbers and is a super athlete, Beal is stronger and rebounds better. Neither dribbles particularly well.

 

Also you have to factor in things like the Wizards lousy track record developing big men and the high cost of signing one.  Getting a C/PF that is already producing at an NBA level but is still young enough to have a lot of years ahead of him would be huge for this organization.  Without trading for a center this team could be facing a situation where Seraphin or Booker have to start at the 4 or 5... and with Nene's health it could be Booker and Seraphin starting.  That my friends is a disaster.  This team has a one year window to acquire a starting caliber big man.    

Doesn't matter though, Detroit isn't going to make that trade.  

Edited May 24, 2013 by Destino

[Destino]

I'm making an assumption here, but I think the organization in Utah knows they won't get anyone in this draft that could make them into a playoff contender. And while I doubt a mid teen pick next year will change their fortunes too, you're assuming people are simply going to offer top 5 picks for milsap...this is flat out stupid. He can walk. Utah has little to no leverage. Why would you offer the third this year? The package I offered allows for a couple things, an expiring that clears some cap for '14, a 2nd round pick this year they can use as they like, and probably a mid teen pick next year in a fairly deep draft (or so they say). Now would you rather have cap room in a year where no one out there can really turn your franchises' fortunes around or next season when some decent FAs will be available? Not to mention some picks. 

 

Offering up the 3rd immediately makes me question your bargaining skills. 

 

Utah needs back court help and they have front court players to spare.  Any trade with them would likely have to provide a back court player that would immediately upgrade them at the 1 or 2.  The Wizards badly need help at the 4 and 5 but can't sign Millsap or Jefferson as FA because they don't have the cap space to do it.  They'd need to trade Okafor or Nene and maybe Ariza as well depending on the size of the incoming contract.  

 

A sign and trade with Utah would work out nicely for both teams if they can make the numbers work.  I wouldn't mind Derrick Favors, Gordon Hayward, and the 14th pick for Trevor Ariza and the 3rd overall pick.  Other combinations would work as well but I'm a Wizards fan and that one favors us magnificently so that's the one I went with.  

[RonArtest15]

Utah needs back court help and they have front court players to spare.  Any trade with them would likely have to provide a back court player that would immediately upgrade them at the 1 or 2.  The Wizards badly need help at the 4 and 5 but can't sign Millsap or Jefferson as FA because they don't have the cap space to do it.  They'd need to trade Okafor or Nene and maybe Ariza as well depending on the size of the incoming contract.  

 

A sign and trade with Utah would work out nicely for both teams if they can make the numbers work.  I wouldn't mind Derrick Favors, Gordon Hayward, and the 14th pick for Trevor Ariza and the 3rd overall pick.  Other combinations would work as well but I'm a Wizards fan and that one favors us magnificently so that's the one I went with.  

 

 

You'd probably have to check for traces of PCP in Dennis Lindsey's blood system if that deal went through. 

[Destino]

You'd probably have to check for traces of PCP in Dennis Lindsey's blood system if that deal went through. 

Traces? He'd probably be rolling around on the floor with ranting about unicorns eating his thoughts if he was high enough to agree to that deal. Any trade with Utah would probably be a sign and trade for Millsap that looked to add a guard without so much salary that it stopped them from resigning Jefferson.   

 

I'm not sure the #3 pick puts us in a great spot to facilitate that trade unless McLemore falls.  The only real point guard talent at the top of the draft is Trey Burke and he probably won't go in the top 5.  They could also just wait and see if Schroeder or Carter-Williams are available 14.  

Edited May 24, 2013 by Destino

[Thinking Skins]

Why are people so down on Len? I'm not saying he's my top pick. I think if Noel is available we take him then Porter then Len.

Most mock drafts have Len going between 4 and 10. But I think I'd we can't get talent at sf we need to go for a big man who can hold his own in the paint. Maybe I'm biased but I think Len has s complete skillset just not enough consistency. But big men are big men and they don't grow on trees.

I don't want a tweener who doesn't play defense or a player that's going to sit on the bench or force us to play a 3 guard lineup. If we need to trade down to get len and Porter and Noel are gone, I say we do it.

[Burgold]

It's a perception of toughness.  Len disappeared in a number of games and seemed to be able to pushed around by guys who were inferior in size.  The lousy guard play didn't help, but he should have had more efforts that were dominant.  Right now, Len is so much more about potential than production and for some that's scary esp. if you add in the injury.

[Destino]

It's a perception of toughness.  Len disappeared in a number of games and seemed to be able to pushed around by guys who were inferior in size.  The lousy guard play didn't help, but he should have had more efforts that were dominant.  Right now, Len is so much more about potential than production and for some that's scary esp. if you add in the injury.

 

 

I'm not terribly concerned by that because I think that's a product of MDs offense.  Bigs don't wrestle for position as aggressively when they feel they aren't going to be rewarded.  This is true in the NBA, though it's not as limited to bigs.  Watch what teams do when a player not known for passing gets the ball.  Most of the team will quickly turn into spectators.  

 

The question marks with Len I think more more about upside, strength, attitude, and durability (because of the stress injury).  He doesn't have the aggression you like to see in big men and while he may not be the bean pole that Nerlens Noel is, he doesn't play strong.  Those two things combine to make a big red flag.  Len isn't a great leaper and isn't going to blow by people.  In order to succeed in the NBA he's going to need to really nail down his midrange shot and play with more of an edge.  Assuming he can stay healthy.  

Edited May 25, 2013 by Destino

[Going Commando]

I just wouldn't mess with Len.  Not with #3.  The foot injury just kind of nailed it home.  Maybe in the late lottery he can make some GM look like a genius.  But if you take him high when there are 7 or 8 prospects just as good as him in the class, that's a recipe for disaster.

 

I think we should go with Porter, Bennett, or Zeller.

[Thinking Skins]

Yeah, Len's foot injury scares me. But Bennett's size scares me too, plus he doesn't play defense. Honestly, if we can't get Porter, I'd be in favor of trying to set up a trade for Monroe. 

[Destino]

Yeah, Len's foot injury scares me. But Bennett's size scares me too, plus he doesn't play defense. Honestly, if we can't get Porter, I'd be in favor of trying to set up a trade for Monroe. 

Especially with the recent failures of Derrick Williams and Thomas Robinson. Undersized PFs that look great in college have a way of looking horrible in the nba.

[Going Commando]

TRob and Dwill might be victims of circumstance as much as anything.  DWill is behind a top five PF and is mostly going to see the floor out of position at SF.  TRob is getting bounced around without a team making a commitment to playing him and building around him.

 

Tough break for TRob to probably hit three teams in his first year BTW.  He was pretty damn terrible offensively this year.  But he also barely played.  And the one thing he did do was eat up defensive glass, his rebound rate on that end was good in a very limited sample.

 

I'd try and get him from the Rockets for a song.  Just as a rebounder, he'd be worth a cheap trade.  Draft Porter or even Zeller and you'll have all the offense you need from him, Wall, Beal, Webster, and Nene.  TRob can be a Reggie Evans type whose job is to play physical and rebound and be a goon with no obligations to score.

[RonArtest15]

I read that there might be some negative stuff going on behind the scenes with Thomas Robinson.  It's a bit curious that he's about to play for his 3rd team in 2 seasons. 

 

Robinson, for whatever the reason, got away from what made him so dynamic at Kansas.  Dude thinks he's a SF...he needs to watch Jordan Hill of all people and pattern his NBA game after him.  If he does that, I don't see why he couldn't be a consistent 10/8 guy down the road. 

[Thinking Skins]

Whats interesting is that this talk of TRob makes me kinda scared of Porter. TRob was supposed to be the most consistent guy in the draft last year - maybe not a flashy player, but the guy with the highest floor and he's playing for his third team? Is that a glue guy? I mean he was being compared to Tim Duncan of all people.

[RonArtest15]

I honestly don't remember the Robinson/Duncan comparisons....

 

The problem with Robinson is that he lost his game somewhere along the way.  He was a guy that most people thought could be plugged right in and become a threat for a double-double every night.  I remember watching him in the vegas summer league and just shaking my head in disbelief at what I was seeing.  He wasn't hitting the glass and was taking jumpers from every spot on the floor.  He was like a bigger version of JR Smith.  Shooting with NO conscious. 

 

The one thing he has going for him is his age.  Maybe this trade will be a wake up call, because I think he's dangerously walking on a fine line between playing in the NBA and going overseas.  3 teams in 2 years is a HORRIBLE look.  Dude needs to wake up. 

 

*Porter is a completely different player.  I think he'll know his role.  Unlike Robinson, I don't think Porter will lose his basketball identiy.  He's a guy who will have no issue being the 3rd option.  He does so many things well and is much more of a versatile player.  He can facilitate the offense in a point-forward role, shoot the mid-range j with ease, and can spot up for 3.  There is also untapped potential with his defense due to his length. 

 

Taking him (to me) is a no-brainer.  A nucleus of Wall, Beal, and Porter will have us set for a while.  The team will eventually need to look for replacements for Nene and Okafor. 

[Destino]

They are trying to clear cap space in order to chase Howard by moving TRob and the Wizards have no team option, non guaranteed, or partially guaranteed contracts to trade. Unless they took our 2nd round picks for TRob, not even sure if that would work, there is nothing we can offer that they'd be interested in.

I am interested in Asik however. If they do somehow manage to sign Howard Asik is a deal they'll likely want to be rid of and we could offer Ariza who would give them a defensive option to throw at Durant and clear their cap of Asik's deal in just one season. For us it would shore up the center position with Okafor leaving after this season. I think it makes sense if the Rockets get Howard, though that is a long shot.

The other player the Wizards should be thinking about is Bosh. Their are rumors Miami could be looking to move him. Watching them in the playoffs its clear that they need a defensive center that can rebound. Hibbert is going to be there again next season. The Bulls are going to be healthier. Some crazy deal could happen that sends Howard to the Eastern Conference as well. The Wizards might be able to offer Okafor or Nene plus something else. Total long shot but Okafor you never know. They'd likely demand Bradley Beal though and that's where things would get dicey.

I'd still look to see if the Pistons wanted the #3 for Monroe. Offer it plus anyone not named Beal or Wall for Cousins. Call the Jazz constantly trying to make a trade happen. Point is the wizards need to be trying to get Wall a skilled big and the opportunities are out there. After that they need to get rid of Nene's deal if possible.

[RonArtest15]

Bosh's rebounding #'s going down is a big concern and also his age.  Our M.O. is always acquring players past their primes or with injury woes.  I like Bosh and think his versatility both inside and out could do wonders.  Also, he'd be our de-facto #1 option, so I think he could get back to being something close to a 20/10 guy for a few seasons. 

 

Personally, I'd want to have a younger big to grow with Wall and Beal.  A deal for Bosh would undoubetly have us surrendering the #3 pick and who knows what else.  I think that's a bit steep, IMO.

 

Now, if we're dangling the #3 for a guy like Boogie or Monroe, I'd be all for that.  Or, if there was a way to bring in Asik (w/o giving up our #3). 

 

*Speaking of Asik and Bosh...how plausible is it for Miami to trade Bosh to the Rockets (if they miss out on Dwight) for Asik and Parsons?  I don't even know how that would work out number-wise, but I'm thinking that Pat Riley has something up his sleeve to bolser the lineup around Lebron, also enticing him to re-sign.  Wade is looking like he is done and Bosh would bring back a nice return.  I'm curious about what exactly the Heat do this offseason. 

Edited May 31, 2013 by RonArtest15

[StillUnknown]

Marc J. SpearsVerified account
‏@SpearsNBAYahoo
Two assistant GMs with Nuggets ties to keep eye on as possible GM candidates include the Wizards' Tommy Sheppard & Bucks' Jeff Weltman.

 

 

Sheppard is the one guy in house I wouldn't mind taking over for Grunfeld. If he leaves and Grunfeld stays, I'll be pissed.

Edited May 31, 2013 by StillUnknown