The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Warhead36]

I wouldn't bother trading for Amare. Does Washington really seem like the place where stars can revive their careers? If anything it's where they go to destroy it. I'd rather maintain the cap flexibility. I think the goal is to be at least pretty good while having cap space, and then using that space to hit it big with some FAs to put you over the top. That, or get insanely lucky like OKC did and just draft like four straight all-star caliber players(Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka).

Really, the key to this franchise is John Wall. He HAS to be a superstar. History has proven that you have to have a superstar to win in the NBA and most teams get theres in the draft, usually at or near the #1 pick. If Wall can blossom into a star over the next couple of years, and we then go out and get someone of Harden's caliber with our cap space, we'd be in business.

[Going Commando]

The player has to have been on the team during the 2011-2012 season.

First year of the new CBA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Amnesty_clause

Son of a...

I thought you could do that since Cleveland amnestied Baron Davis. Didn't realize it had to be a player from last season.

So basically our amnesty clause is worthless. Shard's contract expires at the end of the year, Blatche's contract is too cheap to amnesty, and we don't want to amnesty Nene. At least not yet anyway.

We should have tried to work out a trade of Shard and Blatche for Amare last year then. Dammit.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 10:58 AM ----------

Ah crap.

Well then amnesty Blatche. No one else on the roster from that season that deserves it more.

If we don't amnesty Blatche then it must mean we're keeping the trump card for Nene. There is no way we could still want him.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 11:11 AM ----------

Seriously though, what about Shard for Pau straight up (or close to straight up)?

The salaries work on their own. It's one of two moves they could make to completely re-establish themselves as a powerhouse. Deal Bynum for Dwight straight up and sign Deron Williams or Chris Paul. Boom. The timing would be perfect for them.

We'd probably only be getting a two year rental out of Pau, but you never know. I'd sure as hell rather have two years of Pau than four years of Boozer.

[JMS]

We are NOT the Celtics or Lakers. Our situation is COMPLETELY different than them. If Drummond was being drafted into a vet-laden team which had the infrastructure to develop young talent, then DC would be ideal. With the NBA-ready talent available (yes, READY) between picks 1-5, passing on a sure-bet starter like MKG, Robinson, Beal, Barnes, etc would be foolish. We have holes to plug immediately, and the four guys that I mentioned above would be an instant upgrade to our rebuild.

Great franchise don't rely on veterans to develop their talent.

You are right one way to develop talent is to have a veteran team. Vets who are professional and who have a motive to help youngsters along... Len Bias was going to go into such a situation in boston when MVP Larry Bird said he woudl attend Rookie camp in order to get more time with Len on the court before Len's terrible accident occured... I agree we aren't a veteran team like that....

Only it's more than that... When Bird went to the Celtics they sucked... When Kobi went to the Lakers, again they weren't a great team.. Yet in both cases the franchises were able to develop those players... In both cases the franchise had great GM's who took the long view and personally involved themselves (dictated to the coaches) how the players would be used. Great franchises don't rely on vet's to develop their youngsters. Vet's don't really have any interest or motivation to develop a player. Think Charles Oakley cared two nickles if Kwami Brown developed into a good/great player. Nope... All Charles Oakly cared about was that Charles Oakly got another year or two in the NBA.. If Kwama developed it would almost certainly take away playing time from him... It was actually in his interest to keep Kwama from developing...

Remember when George Allen took Dave Butz in the first round? Dave was the #5 player taken that 1973 Draft by St Louis. A can't miss player.. We gave up two #1's and a #2 for to get Dave that year. Only Dave didn't start his rookie year, or the next year and folks were starting to say Dave was a bust.. Then he wins Defense MVP awards in 78 and 81.. What happenned? Veterans prevelent on George Allen's defensive squad sabataged him, gave him the wrong snap count, made him look bad as a rookie. All in the name of trying to get a few more years in the league.

Great Franchise don't rely on Veterans to develop there projects.. Not even good ones do.. pathetic franchises do that.

Edited June 4, 2012 by JMS

[RonArtest15]

Great franchise don't rely on veterans to develop their talent.

You are right one way to develop talent is to have a veteran team. Vets who are professional and who have a motive to help youngsters along... Len Bias was going to go into such a situation in boston when MVP Larry Bird said he woudl attend Rookie camp in order to get more time with Len on the court before Len's terrible accident occured... I agree we aren't a veteran team like that....

Only it's more than that... When Bird went to the Celtics they sucked... When Kobi went to the Lakers, again they weren't a great team.. Yet in both cases the franchises were able to develop those players... In both cases the franchise had great GM's who took the long view and personally involved themselves (dictated to the coaches) how the players would be used. Great franchises don't rely on vet's to develop their youngsters. Vet's don't really have any interest or motivation to develop a player. Think Charles Oakley cared two nickles if Kwami Brown developed into a good/great player. Nope... All Charles Oakly cared about was that Charles Oakly got another year or two in the NBA.. If Kwama developed it would almost certainly take away playing time from him... It was actually in his interest to keep Kwama from developing...

Remember when George Allen took Dave Butz in the first round? Dave was the #5 player taken that 1973 Draft by St Louis. A can't miss player.. We gave up two #1's and a #2 for to get Dave that year. Only Dave didn't start his rookie year, or the next year and folks were starting to say Dave was a bust.. Then he wins Defense MVP awards in 78 and 81.. What happenned? Veterans prevelent on George Allen's defensive squad sabataged him, gave him the wrong snap count, made him look bad as a rookie. All in the name of trying to get a few more years in the league.

Great Franchise don't rely on Veterans to develop there projects.. Not even good ones do.. pathetic franchises do that.

There is a HUGE difference between Kobe/Bird and Drummond. One, neither Kobe/Bird had as many red-flags as Drummond currently does. Two, neither Kobe/Bird were viewed as boom/bust type of players. Three, there are a handful of GMs around the league that if they take Drummond, their careers ride on the success/failure of how he does. Apples and oranges, IMO.

Like I said before, DC is not the right environment for Drummond. That's not to say that he can't become a good player, but there are better options that fill an immediate need for this team that we can take #3 overall.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 11:22 AM ----------

Son of a...

I thought you could do that since Cleveland amnestied Baron Davis. Didn't realize it had to be a player from last season.

So basically our amnesty clause is worthless. Shard's contract expires at the end of the year, Blatche's contract is too cheap to amnesty, and we don't want to amnesty Nene. At least not yet anyway.

We should have tried to work out a trade of Shard and Blatche for Amare last year then. Dammit.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 10:58 AM ----------

If we don't amnesty Blatche then it must mean we're keeping the trump card for Nene. There is no way we could still want him.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 11:11 AM ----------

Seriously though, what about Shard for Pau straight up (or close to straight up)?

The salaries work on their own. It's one of two moves they could make to completely re-establish themselves as a powerhouse. Deal Bynum for Dwight straight up and sign Deron Williams or Chris Paul. Boom. The timing would be perfect for them.

We'd probably only be getting a two year rental out of Pau, but you never know. I'd sure as hell rather have two years of Pau than four years of Boozer.

Depending on which way we go on draft night, sign me up for the Gasol/Shard swap.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'd honestly rather go for Amare. Amare still has a chance to turn it around. He's been battling a lot of off court issues lately and maybe a change in scenery will help him.

Amare has an UNINSURED contract through 2015. No thanks.

[StillUnknown]

3pm press conference to make the Wittman hiring official.

[RonArtest15]

In regards to extending Wittman...does it make a difference to anyone that both John Wall and Nene spoke VERY highly of him after the season ended?

[Going Commando]

Depending on which way we go on draft night, sign me up for the Gasol/Shard swap.

Just realized a couple of monkey wrenches in a Gasol deal.

Deron Williams' final year (2012/2013) is a player option. He's not going to pick that up. He'll be a UFA this summer. Trading for Rashard doesn't help them afford him because Shard's deal doesn't expire until the end of this season. They'd have to buy him out immediately to target DWill with his money, and I don't understand how any of that works, nor if it'd be something they would be willing to do.

Chris Paul is a UFA next summer, Dwight will be too assuming he doesn't get traded and sign an extension beforehand, so it would let them clear space for them. But there is absolutely no guarantee Paul would even consider leaving the Clippers. It'd be a huge risk for LA to bet on that. The incentive to get Pau off their books for next summer isn't nearly as high as I thought it was before.

Also, I doubt Shard for Pau is the best deal the Lakers can get in return. Especially if DWill isn't a part of the timing/consideration. We'd have to add more incentive to that kind of deal.

[StillUnknown]

In regards to extending Wittman...does it make a difference to anyone that both John Wall and Nene spoke VERY highly of him after the season ended?

It matters, but not enough to not search for other candidates.

Player support can be a fickle thing. If the players grow tired of Wittman's ways, its not like he has a great X's & O's background to fall on.

[JMS]

There is a HUGE difference between Kobe/Bird and Drummond. One, neither Kobe/Bird had as many red-flags as Drummond currently does. Two, neither Kobe/Bird were viewed as boom/bust type of players. Three, there are a handful of GMs around the league that if they take Drummond, their careers ride on the success/failure of how he does. Apples and oranges, IMO.

Yeah you are right. Frankly Drummond has a much higher up side than Kobe when Kobe came into the league in 1996.

I used Kobe and Bird because they are the yin and yang of NBA prospects who make a great impact eventually. Bird was a relitively old guy, very polished, who came in and made an immediate impact. Kobe was a young kid (17), who had great athletism, great talent; but was a guard who had ball handling problems and a suspect jump shot. Kobe was drafted in 1996 thirteenth over all by Charlotte. He was traded to the Lakers, who did a great job of developing him.

Drummond is likewise a freakish athlete who at 18 if developed correctly could be the center piece of a dynasty... He's going to be off the boards long before Kobe Bryant's draft position, 13th over all.

Like I said before, DC is not the right environment for Drummond. That's not to say that he can't become a good player, but there are better options that fill an immediate need for this team that we can take #3 overall.

.

Do you go for a known good player? Or dod you go for a potential Great player. I would argue in the NBA the great franchises go for great players. More so than any other sport 1 player can make or break your franchise, and thus having that 1 great player on your roster is a must. Most franchise's don't draft in the lottery every year, Most franchise can't relly on four or five top five picks over seven years. The really good franchise would take a lottery pick like Drummond, put their all into developing him; then ride him for a decade...

And great franchise develop their talent better than we do. That that's ultimately what we need to change about the Wizards, cause that more than any other thing is what is holding us back. That our youngun's aren't developing and that very high lottery picks are walking out of town annually and dowing well where they land.

Edited June 4, 2012 by JMS

[No Excuses]

Amare has an UNINSURED contract through 2015. No thanks.

I was under the misconception that we can amnesty traded contracts. Since we can't, I'm against trading for either Amare or Boozer.

Ideally, we let the contract expire and use the free cap space next year. But teams like us can't sign big free agents. Most of our moves will have to be in the form of trades.

Maybe someone from Memphis. Rudy Gay? Memphis is capped out. If they want to make additional improvements, they'll have to clear cap space.

[Samuels]

Memphis would want our pick. Gay is still very good and young although overpaid is very effective.

Take all this info with a grain of salt its lunchroom type chatter at the arena.

Free agents to look out for Kris Humphries, Irsan Illoysova, Batum, Lou Williams to streaky for me though.

Was told Jeff Green very likely signing. That fits in with the high praise and saying he was a perfect fit on comcast last week by Ron Thompson believe he has inside info. Also there rumors of interest last year after his heart ailment by both sides.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Samuels

[RonArtest15]

Yeah you are right. Frankly Drummond has a much higher up side than Kobe when Kobe came into the league in 1996.

I used Kobe and Bird because they are the yin and yang of NBA prospects who make a great impact eventually. Bird was a relitively old guy, very polished, who came in and made an immediate impact. Kobe was a young kid (17), who had great athletism, great talent; but was a guard who had ball handling problems and a suspect jump shot. Kobe was drafted in 1996 thirteenth over all by Charlotte. He was traded to the Lakers, who did a great job of developing him.

Drummond is likewise a freakish athlete who at 18 if developed correctly could be the center piece of a dynasty... He's going to be off the boards long before Kobe Bryant's draft position, 13th over all.

Do you go for a known good player? Or dod you go for a potential Great player. I would argue in the NBA the great franchises go for great players. More so than any other sport 1 player can make or break your franchise, and thus having that 1 great player on your roster is a must. Most franchise's don't draft in the lottery every year, Most franchise can't relly on four or five top five picks over seven years. The really good franchise would take a lottery pick like Drummond, put their all into developing him; then ride him for a decade...

And great franchise develop their talent better than we do. That that's ultimately what we need to change about the Wizards, cause that more than any other thing is what is holding us back. That our youngun's aren't developing and that very high lottery picks are walking out of town annually and dowing well where they land.

Yes, I know Drummond is an ELITE athlete. But there is SO much more that goes into becoming a great basketball player than just athleticism.

I've said it a couple of times, but if I'm the Wizards, I'm drafting a player who can help right now vs. someone who may turn out to be servicable down the road. We don't have the luxury of waiting 3-4 years to develop a player like Drummond when there are other good NBA-ready talents available at the #3 pick.

If I'm a team like Portland, I wouldn't think twice about taking Drummond because there isn't an urgency for him to play a lot right away. He can sit and learn behind Camby/Aldridge.

We have Nene, and for as good as Seraphin might be...he's still a project. I'd much rather take someone like Thomas RObinson who'd be a threat to average something close to a double-double as a rookie. He's a polished scorer and the best rebounder coming out in the draft this year.

I hope Drummond turns out to be every bit as good as what the hype is....but DC is just not a good fit.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 12:26 PM ----------

Memphis would want our pick. Gay is still very good and young although overpaid is very effective.

Take all this info with a grain of salt its lunchroom type chatter at the arena.

Free agents to look out for Kris Humphries, Irsan Illoysova, Batum, Lou Williams to streaky for me though.

Was told Jeff Green very likely signing. That fits in with the high praise and saying he was a perfect fit on comcast last week by Ron Thompson believe he has inside info. Also there rumors of interest last year after his heart ailment by both sides.

I like Rudy Gay (AWFUL contract), but we can't be in the business of trading picks for players anymore.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 12:27 PM ----------

It matters, but not enough to not search for other candidates.

Player support can be a fickle thing. If the players grow tired of Wittman's ways, its not like he has a great X's & O's background to fall on.

Do you know if any of his assistants are being retained? I do agree....he needs to do better with the Xs & Os, but hopefully with all the knuckleheads off the roster, we can run sets with a little more efficiency.

[SuperBash]

No on Rudy Gay. I'm trying to see a team with team chemistry. He takes too many shots and forces things.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Was told Jeff Green very likely signing. That fits in with the high praise and saying he was a perfect fit on comcast last week by Ron Thompson believe he has inside info. Also there rumors of interest last year after his heart ailment by both sides.

Yeah, I definitely can see a Green signing. Ernie Grunfeld absolutely loves Jeff from various sources.

[Going Commando]

It matters, but not enough to not search for other candidates.

Player support can be a fickle thing. If the players grow tired of Wittman's ways, its not like he has a great X's & O's background to fall on.

I think Wittman will be good enough for next year. Beyond that, who knows? I say let's get through next season and then see where we're at and what the available talent pool looks like.

The only thing I didn't want to happen was D'Antoni. I also thought Sloan was too old to come in and deal with this team. The nice thing about Wittman is that we only have to commit to him on a year to year basis.

[SuperBash]

I feel like if we added Barnes and Boozer, we are just asking to max out at Mediocrity.

[Going Commando]

Yeah, I definitely can see a Green signing. Ernie Grunfeld absolutely loves Jeff from various sources.

Green makes sense. But how about the health side of things? Is he good to play basketball again? Is this something that's always going to be there with him?

[Samuels]

Green makes sense. But how about the health side of things? Is he good to play basketball again? Is this something that's always going to be there with him?

He is healthy and playing pickup at georgetown. I'm torn I like Jeff being a Hoyas fan but he is a tweener not big enough for Pf and not quick enough for Sf.

[Going Commando]

In the case of Drummond versus a "safer" prospect like Barnes or TRob, there are good arguments both ways.

On one hand, passing on upside can really screw you. Picking Channing Frye and Andrew Bogut over Andrew Bynum.

On the other hand, going for broke and passing on the safer bet can really screw you: Oden over Durant, Marvin Williams over DWill and CP3, etc.

And sometimes picking upside over the safer bet has worked out spectacularly well for teams: Picking Dwight Howard over Emeka Okafor.

And then there is the case to be made for passing on upside to target a lesser player/prospect that fits better into your organization: James Harden over Tyreke Evans and Stephen Curry.

It's a complicated situation with no clear cut precedent to guide the way.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 01:15 PM ----------

He is healthy and playing pickup at georgetown. I'm torn I like Jeff being a Hoyas fan but he is a tweener not big enough for Pf and not quick enough for Sf.

Can he shoot? If so, and if the price is decent, might as well look into it. If you draft Trob you can keep Green at SF. We've got a couple guys who can defend SFs on the roster to cover him up.

[Samuels]

In the case of Drummond versus a "safer" prospect like Barnes or TRob, there are good arguments both ways.

On one hand, passing on upside can really screw you. Picking Channing Frye and Andrew Bogut over Andrew Bynum.

On the other hand, going for broke and passing on the safer bet can really screw you: Oden over Durant, Marvin Williams over DWill and CP3, etc.

And sometimes picking upside over the safer bet has worked out spectacularly well for teams: Picking Dwight Howard over Emeka Okafor.

And then there is the case to be made for passing on upside to target a lesser player/prospect that fits better into your organization: James Harden over Tyreke Evans and Stephen Curry.

It's a complicated situation with no clear cut precedent to guide the way.

---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 01:15 PM ----------

Can he shoot? If so, and if the price is decent, might as well look into it. If you draft Trob you can keep Green at SF. We've got a couple guys who can defend SFs on the roster to cover him up.

He can shoot really well but he don't really shoot the 3 ball well. He is very team oriented type of glue player

[SuperBash]

We just need to stock up on shooters in anyway possible, that also makes financial sense. The PG we have is not a good shooter, he would thrive on a team with a bunch of shooters because of his penetration skills. In terms of additions, shooters has to be the priority. It doesn't have to be through the draft, it just HAS to get done, FA, Trades, etc.

A stretch 4 would be absolutely perfect on this team offensively. This may be a big reach but Jamison loved his time in D.C and if we could get him on a decent deal that doesn't cripple us, I would welcome him back with open arms. Another solid veteran presence that could be a great mentor for are young guys and a leader in the locker room. I see it as a reach because signing him could impede the growth of our younger bigs through lack of PT. But he'd be the perfect impact big man scorer off the bench to help us win games.

[JMS]

If I'm a team like Portland, I wouldn't think twice about taking Drummond because there isn't an urgency for him to play a lot right away. He can sit and learn behind Camby/Aldridge.

We have Nene, and for as good as Seraphin might be...he's still a project. I'd much rather take someone like Thomas RObinson who'd be a threat to average something close to a double-double as a rookie. He's a polished scorer and the best rebounder coming out in the draft this year.

I hope Drummond turns out to be every bit as good as what the hype is....but DC is just not a good fit..

Again... if the wizards can't develop talent, and they can't... they have a proven track record they can't. then it really doesn't matter who they draft cause ultimately if the guy is good he will hang until his rookie deal is done and leave. If he isn't he is irrelivent.

I'm saying makes much more sense to take who youthink will ultimately be the best player even if you have to wait a few years.. Especially for the wizards who are not going to be a threat to win a championship in the next year or two. We are multiple pieces away from that.

Thus Drummand makes more sense cause he has a higher upside... Has the highest upside in the entire draft including Davis..

My biggest concern of pursuing this strategy is the Wizards inability to develop such prospects. That is an inherant weakness in this franchise and one which must be addressed moving forward. Take the best prospect with the highest upside, and give him the best chance of being sucessful.

In the last several decades the Wizards have only had half of that formula and we've suffered for it....

[Going Commando]

Whatever team drafts Drummond needs to treat him like the Lakers treated Bynum. Go out and get him a one on one big man coach first thing. Lakers got Kareem to work with Bynum day one. Drummond needs someone like that to teach him to play.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Drummond's still my pick....probably followed by TRob.

Just don't see "it" with Beal and I don't trust MKG to correct his shooting mechanics.