The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[method man]

Just now, Ball Security said:

Let’s say Anthony Black and the Thompson twins are gone. Do you entertain taking Derrick Lively at 8? I read where the Warriors are very interested in moving to the 10 range for him.

 

Hell no. Don't need a center even if we trade Porzingis and nothing special about Lively. If Black is gone, there is going to be someone projected in the top 7 who falls to us at 8

[Ball Security]

8 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Hell no. Don't need a center even if we trade Porzingis and nothing special about Lively. If Black is gone, there is going to be someone projected in the top 7 who falls to us at 8

Why is an unsuccessful franchise like GS looking to move Kuminga for him?

[mhd24]

24 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Ehh...I'd give JD this year to see what he has. I don't think the guy is a future star or anything like that given his lack of athleticism but I think he could become a productive NBA player because he is a guy with high end work ethic. Remember he went from not doing much as a freshman to the conference POY as a sophomore in a great conference.

 

I would look at trading Deni. There is no point giving a second contract to him.

 

Davis just blows.  College production means very little to me.  It is all about the eye test.  Murray should have POY over Davis anyways.  Way better player to anyone with a brain.  Never draft Wisconsin players.  Most boring program in college.  Like you said, Davis is a below average athlete.  He has no redeemable offensive skill.  He did look OK defensively at times, but he's unplayable IMO because his offense is that bad.  Goodwin looked light-years better than him, and he was a G-leaguer and he was just traded away.  Quintin Jackson looked light-years better than him in the G league.  The Go-Go signed Jules Bernard and he looked better than Davis did.  Winger isn't playing around LOL.  The Clippers gave up on Jerome Robinson (lotto pick) after 1.5 years and at least Jerome could shoot.  Davis is gone IMO in a follow up trade.  We are going to be the dumping ground for bad contracts as long as we get future picks for the next 2-3 years.    

23 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Hell no. Don't need a center even if we trade Porzingis and nothing special about Lively. If Black is gone, there is going to be someone projected in the top 7 who falls to us at 8

 

Assuming the top 3 are Wemby and Scoot/Miller, then I'm going for the home run pick.  Ideally a Thompson twin is there at 8.  If not, I'll go Bilal (Wemby's teammate).  No more Johnny Davis type "safe" players.  Go for the home run pick.

[Hersh]

I get why people are upset. A team like the Suns deciding to go after Beal was worst case scenario. I definitely would've preferred Lowry, Robinson and a couple of firsts (assuming the Heat were never giving up Herro) but that's not where Beal wanted to go once the Suns got involved. 

 

But think about this in terms of the likelihood of Beal getting hurt if the Wiz waited and what that does to trying to trade him. The Wiz cleared $161 million in the last three seasons of this deal. We don't want a Wall situation all over again where it would cost the Wiz picks to move him. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Doesn't mean as individual pieces they wouldn't be desired by contenders.

Doesn’t mean they are desired by contenders as individual pieces. 
 

Your move. 

[method man]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

Why is an unsuccessful franchise like GS looking to move Kuminga for him?

 

They desperately need a cheap big man who they think could be productive. They have nothing behind Looney

[mhd24]

22 minutes ago, Hersh said:

I get why people are upset. A team like the Suns deciding to go after Beal was worst case scenario. I definitely would've preferred Lowry, Robinson and a couple of firsts (assuming the Heat were never giving up Herro) but that's not where Beal wanted to go once the Suns got involved. 

 

But think about this in terms of the likelihood of Beal getting hurt if the Wiz waited and what that does to trying to trade him. The Wiz cleared $161 million in the last three seasons of this deal. We don't want a Wall situation all over again where it would cost the Wiz picks to move him. 

 

I'll wait and see the trade details, but I think the Suns trade over the reported Heat trade was actually better compensation.  If Miami was saving their Bullets for Dame, then this was the best deal we could get.  I didn't even want Herro in the deal.  He'd prevent us from the ultimate goal of tanking and has 120 million over 4 years.  Robinson has an horrible longterm deal.  At least Shamet is movable as he has 2 more team-option years.  CP3 is also still valuable as an expiring.  We could get more compensation on that end too.  I expect both CP3 & Shamet to be traded soon (Shame to Detroit possibly to reunite with Monty Williams).

 

The Wiz are going to be the dumping ground of bad contracts for the rest of the NBA for the foreseeable future.  As long as we get draft compensation for doing so, then that is the right goal that Winger is going for.

 

[method man]

1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

 

Davis just blows.  College production means very little to me.  It is all about the eye test.  Murray should have POY over Davis anyways.  Way better player to anyone with a brain.  Never draft Wisconsin players.  Most boring program in college.  Like you said, Davis is a below average athlete.  He has no redeemable offensive skill.  He did look OK defensively at times, but he's unplayable IMO because his offense is that bad.  Goodwin looked light-years better than him, and he was a G-leaguer and he was just traded away.  Quintin Jackson looked light-years better than him in the G league.  The Go-Go signed Jules Bernard and he looked better than Davis did.  Winger isn't playing around LOL.  The Clippers gave up on Jerome Robinson (lotto pick) after 1.5 years and at least Jerome could shoot.  Davis is gone IMO in a follow up trade.  We are going to be the dumping ground for bad contracts as long as we get future picks for the next 2-3 years.    

 

Assuming the top 3 are Wemby and Scoot/Miller, then I'm going for the home run pick.  Ideally a Thompson twin is there at 8.  If not, I'll go Bilal (Wemby's teammate).  No more Johnny Davis type "safe" players.  Go for the home run pick.

 

Not to provide excuses for Davis but he was supposedly dealing with a lot of injuries the first half of the season and he was dealing with a newborn. Look at his pre All Star game and post All Star game splits in the GLeague. He was absolutely terrible in the first half and, in the second half, he averaged 18 ppg on 49/45/75. 

 

If you try to move him now, you are getting nothing of note back from him. There is no harm giving him a lot of minutes in year 2. Either he improves and shows he is an NBA caliber player or he sucks and helps with the tank. The key for him is to show more consistency with his jump shot - to your point, because he is a below average athlete, you can't depend on him getting his points attacking the rim. He is going to have to develop a solid three point shot or at least a mid range game. I do think his defense is NBA caliber and can potentially be above average. He needs to show more on offense though

Just now, mhd24 said:

 

I'll wait and see the trade details, but I think the Suns trade over the reported Heat trade was actually better compensation.  If Miami was saving their Bullets for Dame, then this was the best deal we could get.  I didn't even want Herro in the deal.  He'd prevent us from the ultimate goal of tanking and has 120 million over 4 years.  Robinson has an horrible longterm deal.  At least Shamet is movable as he has 2 more team-option years.  CP3 is also still valuable as an expiring.  We could get more compensation on that end too.  I expect both CP3 & Shamet to be traded soon (Shame to Detroit possibly to reunite with Monty Williams).

 

The Wiz are going to be the dumping ground of bad contracts for the rest of the NBA for the foreseeable future.  As long as we get draft compensation for doing so, then that is the right goal that Winger is going for.

 

 

They could've moved Herro for at least a couple first rounders now. If they let him serve as the primary piece here and chuck his way to 25 ppg+ a game with decent efficiency, perhaps they could've gotten more. 120M over 4 years is not bad value for him now and could be great value if he could prove he has another gear to his game.

 

I've heard that Monty Williams absolutely loves Shamet. If they can get #31 (the first pick of the second round) for him, that is good value

[mhd24]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Not to provide excuses for Davis but he was supposedly dealing with a lot of injuries the first half of the season and he was dealing with a newborn. Look at his pre All Star game and post All Star game splits in the GLeague. He was absolutely terrible in the first half and, in the second half, he averaged 18 ppg on 49/45/75. 

 

If you try to move him now, you are getting nothing of note back from him. There is no harm giving him a lot of minutes in year 2. Either he improves and shows he is an NBA caliber player or he sucks and helps with the tank. The key for him is to show more consistency with his jump shot - to your point, because he is a below average athlete, you can't depend on him getting his points attacking the rim. He is going to have to develop a solid three point shot or at least a mid range game. I do think his defense is NBA caliber and can potentially be above average. He needs to show more on offense though

 

Supposedly the Wiz like both Thompson twins.  All indications are that we will take a guard at 8.  IF we take one of them (or Bilal), they are the SG of the future and they need to play ASAP and be given as many minutes as possible over Davis.  Kispert also is going to get PT over Davis obviously.  If Shamet is here somehow, then he'll get PT over Davis.  This regime didn't draft Davis.  OKC (Will Dawkins) probably didn't have Davis rated highly at all.  Winger traded away Goodwin who was lightyears better last year.  I think they would use Davis as an "attractive" filler in a trade dump scenario as long as they get a future 1st from a trading team.  

 

I know I'm biased against Davis, but I hated the pick from day one.    

[method man]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

 

Supposedly the Wiz like both Thompson twins.  All indications are that we will take a guard at 8.  IF we take one of them (or Bilal), they are the SG of the future and they need to play ASAP and be given as many minutes as possible over Davis.  Kispert also is going to get PT over Davis obviously.  If Shamet is here somehow, then he'll get PT over Davis.  This regime didn't draft Davis.  OKC (Will Dawkins) probably didn't have Davis rated highly at all.  Winger traded away Goodwin who was lightyears better last year.  I think they would use Davis as an "attractive" filler in a trade dump scenario as long as they get a future 1st from a trading team.  

 

I know I'm biased against Davis, but I hated the pick from day one.    

 

If they wanted to get rid of Davis as badly as you indicate, couldn't they have dumped him in the Beal trade? You have no idea where Dawkins rated him either. The Thompson twins are not projected to fall to #8. The guy who is projected to go to the Wiz most consistently in mocks is Anthony Black who is a PG. If they do take a SG, you can always have JD come off the bench.

 

Take the GLeague stuff out of it. He did have 3 good games in his final 8 so he showed some signs of life. I am caveating that those games were like the equivalent of the Dallas game for the football team last year so I take them with a grain of salt but I can't take away the games he did have.

 

I don't think Kispert really blocks JD. Kispert should be the starting SF and Deni, if they keep him, should play PF given his lack of shooting ability

[justice98]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that 2026 pick swap might be in play.  By 2026, this little experiment in Phoenix could be done with. I'm not convinced Beal seamlessly fits in and it all works out. And Durant misses 60% of the games.  

[mhd24]

14 minutes ago, method man said:

 

If they wanted to get rid of Davis as badly as you indicate, couldn't they have dumped him in the Beal trade? You have no idea where Dawkins rated him either. The Thompson twins are not projected to fall to #8. The guy who is projected to go to the Wiz most consistently in mocks is Anthony Black who is a PG. If they do take a SG, you can always have JD come off the bench.

 

Take the GLeague stuff out of it. He did have 3 good games in his final 8 so he showed some signs of life. I am caveating that those games were like the equivalent of the Dallas game for the football team last year so I take them with a grain of salt but I can't take away the games he did have.

 

I don't think Kispert really blocks JD. Kispert should be the starting SF and Deni, if they keep him, should play PF given his lack of shooting ability

 

OKC was hot after Jalen Williams (See https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35749299/the-hoop-collective-okc-other-draft-night-mission-plus-future-wilt-storied-record).  They actually called us and offered the Knicks trade (3 protected future 1sts (including our protected future first)).  Denver tried to trade up to 10 and take Jalen Williams (See https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37844891/lowe-seven-year-journey-construct-2023-nba-champion-denver-nuggets).  We also could have just taken Jalen Williams.  Instead, our dumb previous regime took a pick in Davis that never made sense.  Maybe our dumb previous FO could have internally thought why smart teams like OKC & Denver wanted Jalen Williams.

 

The Fact that anyone from the previous FO is still employed in any capacity is beyond me.  Winger should fire every single one of the holdovers.

 

I don't think there is any chance a Thompson is there at 8 unfortunately.  That's why winning that meaningless Celtics game was so Wizards.  That corporate lackey Chris Miller lecturing us diehards about tanking really agitated me.  He's Bahgdad Bob.  I wish Winger fires him too.  Worst play-by-play guy in the NBA.

 

I really don't want Black personally.  I mean, he's OK I guess as a prospect, but I want to hit a home run.  Go for Bilal at 8.   

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Ball Security]

13 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

OKC was hot after Jalen Williams (See https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35749299/the-hoop-collective-okc-other-draft-night-mission-plus-future-wilt-storied-record).  They actually called us and offered the Knicks trade (3 protected future 1sts (including our protected future first)).  Denver tried to trade up to 10 and take Jalen Williams (See https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37844891/lowe-seven-year-journey-construct-2023-nba-champion-denver-nuggets).  We also could have just taken Jalen Williams.  Instead, our dumb previous regime took a pick in Davis that never made sense.  Maybe our dumb previous FO could have internally thought why smart teams like OKC & Denver wanted Jalen Williams.

 

The Fact that anyone from the previous FO is still employed in any capacity is beyond me.  Winger should fire every single one of the holdovers.

 

I don't think there is any chance a Thompson is there at 8 unfortunately.  That's why winning that meaningless Celtics game was so Wizards.  That corporate lackey Chris Miller lecturing us diehards about tanking really agitated me.  He's Bahgdad Bob.  I wish Winger fires him too.  Worst play-by-play guy in the NBA.

 

I really don't want Black personally.  I mean, he's OK I guess as a prospect, but I want to hit a home run.  Go for Bilal at 8.   

What are you seeing in Coulibaly’s game that the collective draft community is missing? What pros do you comp him to?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

Welcome home Spencer Dinwiddie and Davis Bertans.

[mhd24]

6 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

What are you seeing in Coulibaly’s game that the collective draft community is missing? What pros do you comp him to?

 

It's the athleticism, wingspan, defense, and age.  It won't be a safe pick for sure.  But, I'd rather shoot for the home run vs a pop-up single.  I wouldn't say the draft community is missing out on Bilal.  He's going to be solidly in the top 15 range.  If OKC keeps their pick, I can see them taking him.  Heck, Ainge might take him at 9.  Ainge knows talent.

 

Maybe OG from Toronto as a baseline comp?

Edited June 19, 2023 by mhd24

[method man]

52 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

It's the athleticism, wingspan, defense, and age.  It won't be a safe pick for sure.  But, I'd rather shoot for the home run vs a pop-up single.  I wouldn't say the draft community is missing out on Bilal.  He's going to be solidly in the top 15 range.  If OKC keeps their pick, I can see them taking him.  Heck, Ainge might take him at 9.  Ainge knows talent.

 

Maybe OG from Toronto as a baseline comp?

 

He doesn't have the ceiling Coulibaly does but I would say Black has an all star ceiling with a much higher floor. It's unfair to compare him to Deni and Troy - he's a much better prospect than either of those two and I see him as a more athletic Giddey. At #8, he feels like a good mix of BBIQ, character and upside. Saying drafting him as a single is way off..it's not a swing for the fences pick either but I feel like it is a "let's hit a double or triple" type of pick.

Edited June 19, 2023 by method man

[mhd24]

36 minutes ago, method man said:

 

He doesn't have the ceiling Coulibaly does but I would say Black has an all star ceiling with a much higher floor. It's unfair to compare him to Deni and Troy - he's a much better prospect than either of those two and I see him as a more athletic Giddey. At #8, he feels like a good mix of BBIQ, character and upside. Saying drafting him as a single is way off..it's not a swing for the fences pick either but I feel like it is a "let's hit a double or triple" type of pick.

 

Black is OK I guess.  I wouldn't love the pick because of inability to blow past people.  The Wiz have drafted too many unathletic types recently.  I'd rather the new FO go for the home run and Bilal is that (assuming a Thompson is long gone).

[Hersh]

If GS wants to move up and they are looking to unload Kuminga, I'd happily trade back to 19 and pick up Kuminga. If they want Delon Wright Morris, that works as well. 

[EmirOfShmo]

I remember writing "Home of the 1978 NBA Championship Washington Bullets" on the back of letters I sent to my then girlfriend (she lived in East BF Ohio...lol). 

Almost 50 ****ing years. Damn....starting over is a good thing.

I used to love going downtown DC this time of year to see the basketball Summer League at the YMCA in Georgetown.  Free and saw some great basketball...

[Going Commando]

I understand the context of the trade, and the million reasons why it had to be done now and why this is the best we could do.  But trading Beal for a salary dump with zero return is such a horrendously unbalanced deal that it's going to have at least two broader consequences for the league.

 

1 - No player is ever getting a no trade clause again.  Beal pulled that ladder up behind himself.

 

2 - The balance of power in the West got screwed up.  The past five years had seen the most parity in the NBA in 40 years, and it was because the supermax and salary cap stabilization kept super teams from forming.  Giannis and/or Jokic and/or Embiid and/or Tatum couldn't team up with each other without walking away from an impossible amount of money.  Beal was kept here for five years past when he would have left under older CBA max contract structures.  Trading a perennial All Star on a super max deal for a bag of beans circumvented all of the market forces that had been keeping effective Big 3s from forming up outside of the draft.  Couldn't even pry Ayton away to weaken them because of how ****ing terrible our leverage was in this situation.  This trade was bad for basically everyone but Phoenix.

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

If GS wants to move up and they are looking to unload Kuminga, I'd happily trade back to 19 and pick up Kuminga. If they want Delon Wright Morris, that works as well. 

 

Nope.  Wouldn't do that deal at all.  Kuminga has 2 years left until he's extension eligible.  Rather stay put at 8 and take BPA and get 4 years to evaluate.  We are going to be the worst team in the NBA easily.  Take the lumps now and give PT to young guys worth developing.  

 

Give Deni all the PT and load he can handle.  Ditto Kispert.  See if they can sink or swim (Kispert I know will always be a solid role player in this league).

 

I'm ambivalent about keeping KP, but I figure the new regime will try and trade him if he opts in.  He's a great focal point as an offensive player and should fetch a mid first if we want another pick.

[mhd24]

16 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I understand the context of the trade, and the million reasons why it had to be done now and why this is the best we could do.  But trading Beal for a salary dump with zero return is such a horrendously unbalanced deal that it's going to have at least two broader consequences for the league.

 

1 - No player is ever getting a no trade clause again.  Beal pulled that ladder up behind himself.

 

2 - The balance of power in the West got screwed up.  The past five years had seen the most parity in the NBA in 40 years, and it was because the supermax and salary cap stabilization kept super teams from forming.  Giannis and/or Jokic and/or Embiid and/or Tatum couldn't team up with each other without walking away from an impossible amount of money.  Beal was kept here for five years past when he would have left under older CBA max contract structures.  Trading a perennial All Star on a super max deal for a bag of beans circumvented all of the market forces that had been keeping effective Big 3s from forming up outside of the draft.  Couldn't even pry Ayton away to weaken them because of how ****ing terrible our leverage was in this situation.  This trade was bad for basically everyone but Phoenix.

 

 

Nah, Phoenix is going to go deep into the 2nd apron.  There are severe penalties for that.  Your first. rounder automatically becomes the last pick in the first round.  You can't use the MLE.  You can only sign guys. to vet min deals, etc.  Denver is still better than they are.  The new owner went all in.  

 

Heck, if I'm Boston, I want no part in a Jaylon Brown max extension.  He's not worth it!  Dude can't even dribble.  He'll be a Beal-esque albatross contract the second he inks it.  The only guys in the league I'm comfortable paying anything to are Giannis, Jokic, and Luka.  Tatum is close, but he's a clear tier below.    

[Hersh]

8 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

Nope.  Wouldn't do that deal at all.  Kuminga has 2 years left until he's extension eligible.  Rather stay put at 8 and take BPA and get 4 years to evaluate.  We are going to be the worst team in the NBA easily.  Take the lumps now and give PT to young guys worth developing.  

 

Give Deni all the PT and load he can handle.  Ditto Kispert.  See if they can sink or swim (Kispert I know will always be a solid role player in this league).

 

I'm ambivalent about keeping KP, but I figure the new regime will try and trade him if he opts in.  He's a great focal point as an offensive player and should fetch a mid first if we want another pick.

 

TYou do understand that Kuminga is only 20 and is already showing he can be a big time player with good range. 52/37 splits with eFG of 57%. GS doesn't want to go young so they will move him to reset that rookie clock. He's putting up great numbers on the Wiz from the jump. Some how it would be better to roll the dice on a college player that shoots 30% or worse from three? To each their own.