Overlooked = KR Devin Thomas...

[redskindan07]

I was thinking the same thing last night when watching the game. D.T was returning quite well!!

[MrJL]

Yeah, but even better was how excited he was about making those plays. Devin could be easily sulking and upset about his minimal role. I'm not sure he even was sent out when we went four receivers, but he made a play when he had a chance and he was excited for the team. Thomas' play is putting pressure on the coaches to give him more opportunities.

AH should take notes.

Actually Thomas loves playing special teams. Last year he was petitioning the Zorn coaching staff to play on teams because he feels it helps him get in the game.

[bulldog]

I really think if Devin Thomas was 'earning' and 'deserved' a starting WR job with Shanahan he would have it.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Because you seem to be making a determinative statement and not simply an opinion like we all may have.

Has Thomas earned a job as a starter with his work ethic and attitude?

How do you know that?

[Gurgeh]

IIRC his problems last year were route-running and gaining separation. If he can't run his routes he's going to get limited time at WR no matter how good a KR he is, and when he does come in teams are going to watch for the screen. He's one of those annoying players who when he does what he's supposed to looks to be the real deal, but he doesn't manage it consistently. Maybe with enough practice it will click some day; he was always tagged as a "raw talent" in the draft that would need a lot of work to develop.

[MumboSauce]

I wish that talent could be used as a receiver, he needs to get the offense/routes down if that's the issue. He has physical merits, speed etc. At least he can help us on returns/teams if nothing else.

[SkinsTillIDie]

I really think if Devin Thomas was 'earning' and 'deserved' a starting WR job with Shanahan he would have it.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Because you seem to be making a determinative statement and not simply an opinion like we all may have.

Has Thomas earned a job as a starter with his work ethic and attitude?

How do you know that?

I don't think anyone is (realistically) asking him to be a starter. However, he wasn't played for a single offensive snap against Dallas. With our receiving woes -- besides Moss and Cooley, only one other receiver had a catch: Anthony Armstrong with one reception for 11 yards (and Sellers and Portis further combined for 2 receptions for 3 yards) -- surely Thomas could add something to our offense, even if he's in for only ten snaps a game. A screen, a quick slant, a post, a go - anything - it just doesn't make sense to not give him one or two designed plays a game. He's that athletic... we've seen that athleticism in action, as recently as the Buffalo Bills game on a perfectly executed route and catch (and throw)

I completely understand Shanahan's reluctance to play Thomas so far - he's been anything but consistent, has dropped balls he should've caught, and has been comparatively unimpressive running routes. I completely agree with his philosophy of not playing Thomas until he proves he belongs out there with the starters... This means practicing well, showing up to everything on time (as Shanahan recently alluded to his recent failure to always do so), and proving to the coaching staff that he can be a more reliable and explosive target that those above him on the depth chart.

However, all that being said, Thomas has no game film from this season to study and to see where he can get better. I believe he should be studying Miles Austin and Hakeem Nicks - all three featuring the same height/weight, strength and speed combination - but it's hard to do so when he has nothing from this season to which he can compare and analyze. Further, we quite simply lack the playmakers on offense to achieve anything but, at best, a mediocre offense. We don't have a single "gamebreaker" on offense that can realistically score on any given play - Moss has long since lost his elite speed and is no longer a true threat to score when he gets the ball in the open field. Thomas offers us a player who can catch the ball, make a move, and suddenly get us 20 yards by beating a player or breaking a tackle, things he does probably better than anyone else on our team. That alone warrants some amount of playing time.

I imagine Shanahan will increase Thomas' playing time in each successive week, with the presumption that Thomas will continue to show positive things on the field. "Devin did one heck of a job getting us field position against one heck of a team. ... Devin helped himself last night." If Thomas can get on the field for 10 snaps next week, I bet he'll make a positive contribution in the run-blocking game and show some off some of his best attributes. Hopefully then, he'll see 20 snaps the next week. And so on

But if Thomas fails to see the field again next week, we have a real problem. Thomas, quite simply, won't develop if he doesn't play, and it's not like putting him on the field would be taking other players off that are contributing in a positive manner. My bet is that Shanahan is really pushing Thomas to do everything he can to be the best practice player he can be, and surely, ultimately, that will translate on the field.... In the long run, this should pay dividend... of course, with the assumption that Shanahan does indeed give him a chance to prove himself on the field

[theboomking]

lots of IFs on these threads whenever we discuss Devin Thomas as a WR

How about the fact that Devin looked great last year against New Orleans and San Diego last year, making plays that Joey Galloway will never make again, and that Anthony Armstrong has never made. Devin has made plays on the field. He is our most athletically talented receiver and is great after the catch, and in the run game. Devin does drop some balls, but so does Moss.

SkinsTillIDie, I agree with your entire post. Devin may not be ready to start, but he needs to see the field. I don't think it could be any more transparent how little Joey Galloway and Roydell Williams bring to the table. I fully expect Devin to see some snaps at WR next week.

I'm fine with Devin getting limited snaps if Shannahan is just trying to get Thomas to work on his route running. Thomas seems like a good, hard working kid. I really expect the light to go on for him at some point with regards to his route running.

[skins2victory]

He did have a great game as a returner. I wish we would have seen more of him as a WR, because besides Moss and Cooley the others didnt get it done.

[darrelgreenie]

-- surely Thomas could add something to our offense, even if he's in for only ten snaps a game. A screen, a quick slant, a post, a go - anything - it just doesn't make sense to not give him one or two designed plays a game. He's that athletic... we've seen that athleticism in action, as recently as the Buffalo Bills game on a perfectly executed route and catch (and throw)

I completely understand Shanahan's reluctance to play Thomas so far - he's been anything but consistent, has dropped balls he should've caught, and has been comparatively unimpressive running routes. I completely agree with his philosophy of not playing Thomas until he proves he belongs out there with the starters... This means practicing well, showing up to everything on time (as Shanahan recently alluded to his recent failure to always do so), and proving to the coaching staff that he can be a more reliable and explosive target that those above him on the depth chart.

Then it seems like you should understand why they didn't play him.

I think at this juncture he hasn't earned the coaches trust that he'll run the right route or make the open catch.

And ultimately a coach won't design plays for the most talented player if he doesn't trust the player will execute the assignment or make the catch.

And i don't think gambling on Devin was in Kyle's mind in the first game of the season against a divisional foe.

I think the coaching staff wanted to minimize the amount of risk any way possible.

But, i agree with you about Devin's ability.

I think eventually there has to be a package of plays for him.

His skill set is similiar to Hester or a young Tana Moss.

They aren't polished route runners, hands are inconsistent, the don't make tough catches.

There much better stationary receivers then moving receivers.

But their speed and after catch ability makes them dynamic.

Imo a good package of plays for Devin would screens, of hitches/comebacks and some vertical stuff.

(Basically the same things he did in Michigan St.)

But, the problem for Devin is that Armstrong has similiar speed and playmaking ability but has earned the coaches trust.

We don't have a single "gamebreaker" on offense that can realistically score on any given play - Moss has long since lost his elite speed and is no longer a true threat to score when he gets the ball in the open field.

Completely disagree.

Tana still has elite WR speed and run after the catch ability in my opinion but he's still maddeningly inconsistent with his hands.

And i think all signs point to the staff seeing Armstrong as a more viable playmaking option then Devin and that's imo is what's keeping him off the field if both can run the same routes wouldn't you go with the person that you view as having the better hands and is more consistent with execution e.g. route running and assignments?

[TSO]

Great thread Zarg, and absolutely spot on. Devin has been completely overlooked and was just excellent on returns. He'll break at least one or two this year if he keeps it up!

[Skins2DaDeath]

He will get his shot very soon i believe, especially if RW and JG aren't making any production.

[Zarg]

Great thread Zarg, and absolutely spot on. Devin has been completely overlooked and was just excellent on returns. He'll break at least one or two this year if he keeps it up!

"Great thread" (tearing up....) no one ever said that to me before.... Thanks man....

[Zarg]

This thread has become a love fest for Buehler...

LOL!!! I know someone who was awesome at the combine too.... Last name Shuler...

[mi6]

Loved the great effort Devin Thomas put forward. I am sure the coaches have taken notice.

I am hoping to see Devin as a WR ... Hopefully, he will show us all that he can live up to expectations.

[Fetus]

DT11 for the # 2 WR spot please!

[Dan T.]

You guys are still tied to Thomas as a WR because of his draft status.

If anything the article on Saturday in the WP about Shanahan's roots and how he evaluates players should tell you that none of that matters.

If Thomas doesn't run crisp routes in practice he is NEVER going to see the field at WR unless there are a boatload of injuries.

And here's where Shanahan's stubbornness might hurt him. If Thomas is incapable of learning the routes, accomodate Thomas' strenghths as a wide receiver and minimize his drawbacks. Put him in for packages where his route assignments are basic. Adopt your system to your players' strengths.

In any case, I refuse to believe that Thomas' route running is so horrendous that we can't dare have him sniff the field. He was coming on strong as a WR last season. Have coaches work with him or something. He's got too much raw talent, desire, and passion for the game to keep him on the bench.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Then it seems like you should understand why they didn't play him.

I think at this juncture he hasn't earned the coaches trust that he'll run the right route or make the open catch.

And ultimately a coach won't design plays for the most talented player if he doesn't trust the player will execute the assignment or make the catch.

And i don't think gambling on Devin was in Kyle's mind in the first game of the season against a divisional foe.

I think the coaching staff wanted to minimize the amount of risk any way possible.

I think it's pretty obvious that Thomas hasn't earned the trust of the coaches. He needed to do more in the preseason, and apparently, needs to do more in practice. He needs, quite simply, to be more consistent in all aspects of his game: how he approaches practice, route running, making the more simple catches, etc. etc. That has to be why he's in the doghouse. But I don't see how Roydell Williams, or Joey Galloway for that matter, have earned the coaches trust to such an extent to relegate Thomas to a non-existent factor on offense. Yes, perhaps you could argue that Galloway and Williams run their routes in the precise manner that they should be run, and it's probably safe to say that they have been - so far - more "professional" in their approach to the every-day demands of being a pro player. But they certainly haven't been any more productive, nor have they been more reliable or dependable to gain separation or help move the chains.

I can only assume that this is the Shanahans' way of sending a message. Presumably, they will have Thomas on their roster for years to come, and so this is the best manner in dealing with him and encouraging harder work when looking at the long haul.

But is having Thomas out there really any more of a risk than Galloway or Williams, who, lets face it, are both essentially irrelevant when they are on the field, allowing defenses to easily single cover them while focusing their attention on other areas of our offense (i.e. stopping the run first and foremost; keying in on Cooley; keying in on Moss). At least Thomas gives us a downfield threat, and someone defenses need to worry about single-covering... because if he beats his man in single coverage, he could just as well score a touchdown. That won't happen with Galloway or Williams. I don't see how he's really more of a risk when he adds so much more than either of those. Especially if we are not calling plays for him, him possibly running a wrong route is much less of a concern

The gameplan certainly seemed to be, on offense, "don't turn the ball over." A conservative gameplan befitting Gibbs; but who's to disagree, it was a divisional foe on opening day and the gameplan worked - we won. I just hope they don't play that style every week...

But, i agree with you about Devin's ability.

I think eventually there has to be a package of plays for him.

His skill set is similiar to Hester or a young Tana Moss.

They aren't polished route runners, hands are inconsistent, the don't make tough catches.

There much better stationary receivers then moving receivers.

But their speed and after catch ability makes them dynamic.

Imo a good package of plays for Devin would screens, of hitches/comebacks and some vertical stuff.

(Basically the same things he did in Michigan St.)

Agree with all this here. Though I'd love to see him on a few crossing routes -- assuming he can get the correct routes down -- and get the ball in his hands while he's moving in the open field.

But, the problem for Devin is that Armstrong has similiar speed and playmaking ability but has earned the coaches trust.

He has speed but without the size, and he only ended up hurting us yesterday with his drops in the endzone. I really wonder how that will effect their trust in games moving forward - they trusted him so much they gave him our two best chances to score, back to back, the same play call. And he couldn't come up with either of them. You do have to wonder if Thomas would've made those plays...

I believe that Armstrong could turn into an Eddie Royal-lite for us, but I'm not any more sold on his potential for consistency than Thomas. But again, this surely comes down to pre-game preparation...

Completely disagree.

Tana still has elite WR speed and run after the catch ability in my opinion but he's still maddeningly inconsistent with his hands.

Moss can get downfield and get behind the defense, but he's not as fast nor elusive as he was three years ago. There've already been plays where he would've gotten more yards in previous seasons. He rarely makes defenders miss anymore in the open field, and he doesn't have the gamebreaking speed to catch a ball and run past/through all would-be tacklers for huge gains. He used to be a threat to score every time he touched the ball, like Desean Jackson now, and he, quite simply, isn't anymore. He's lost a little bit. And his hands, too, they're frustrating as hell - it seems like he drops a ball every game now that he should absolutely come down with

And i think all signs point to the staff seeing Armstrong as a more viable playmaking option then Devin and that's imo is what's keeping him off the field if both can run the same routes wouldn't you go with the person that you view as having the better hands and is more consistent with execution e.g. route running and assignments?

Right now, I'd absolutely rather have Armstrong on the field over Thomas. It's Galloway's and Williams' inclusion over Thomas that is so frustrating. Though if the route is a go route or a quick screen, I'd want Thomas, purely for his superior size advantage. Though I'm also not sure if Armstrong can be considered to have better hands anymore...

[SkinsTillIDie]

Also, another quick point: I still don't understand how Sellers can have 2 (or was it 3?) targets, while Thomas can't even see the field. Portis too - he just quite simply can't run a good route or catch the damn ball and make a play.

[Dan T.]

Also, another quick point: I still don't understand how Sellers can have 2 (or was it 3?) targets, while Thomas can't even see the field. Portis too - he just quite simply can't run a good route or catch the damn ball and make a play.

You know, Devin Thomas has played running back in his football past. Why not groom him as a third down back?

[terpskins10]

You know, Devin Thomas has played running back in his football past. Why not groom him as a third down back?

You might give Oldfan a panic attack. lol

[RandyHolt]

why not let him play instead of Galloway since he is a decoy anyways? Anyone watching the KC game just saw Dwayne Bowe's great block to seal the hole on a 50+ yd TD run. Our WR blocking is presumably atrocious for another year going with such a diminutive starting cast.

Devin Thomas seems like a decent blocker to me. If being a skins fan has taught us anything, its that a size advantage usually leads to a blocking advantage.

[Dan T.]

You might give Oldfan a panic attack. lol

But who's a better candidate currently on the roster?

[darrelgreenie]

Yes, perhaps you could argue that Galloway and Williams run their routes in the precise manner that they should be run, and it's probably safe to say that they have been - so far - more "professional" in their approach to the every-day demands of being a pro player. But they certainly haven't been any more productive, nor have they been more reliable or dependable to gain separation or help move the chains........I can only assume that this is the Shanahans' way of sending a message. Presumably, they will have Thomas on their roster for years to come, and so this is the best manner in dealing with him and encouraging harder work when looking at the long haul.

Well (excluding their career production numbers) we don't have a sample size from this year to really know wether or not Williams and Galloway are more reliable gaining separation.

What i saw last night on Williams and Joey's only targets was that both players were open.

They could be open all the time or those could be the only times they got open.

Without coaching tape there's no way to know.

But, based on their previous production i would say that both have proven

more dependable in gaining separation and moving the chains then Devin because well they've done it before.

But is having Thomas out there really any more of a risk than Galloway or Williams, who, lets face it, are both essentially irrelevant when they are on the field, allowing defenses to easily single cover them while focusing their attention on other areas of our offense (i.e. stopping the run first and foremost; keying in on Cooley; keying in on Moss). At least Thomas gives us a downfield threat, and someone defenses need to worry about single-covering... because if he beats his man in single coverage, he could just as well score a touchdown. That won't happen with Galloway or Williams. I don't see how he's really more of a risk when he adds so much more than either of those. Especially if we are not calling plays for him, him possibly running a wrong route is much less of a concern

I'm not ready to make judgements about which WRs are relevant or not after the 1st game.

I don't think anyone would say that Fred Davis is irrelevant at TE.

Again on their targets both WRs were open that's the only thing i know from that game.

We just don't know yet.

The risk: Devin hasn't earned the coaching staff trust and therefore putting him in is probably a risk in their eyes

running the wrong route can ruin a play and there are many ways to run the wrong route, running the right route and not making the catch is a risk also.(as we saw with Armstrong)

Also IF Devin only runs certain routes team will key on him.

Imo Moss, Armstrong and Joey can all beat man-to-man coverage deep.

Though I'd love to see him on a few crossing routes -- assuming he can get the correct routes down -- and get the ball in his hands while he's moving in the open field.

Me too, but my first thought is how well does Thomas track and catch the ball when he's not stationary?(excluding go routes)

He has speed but without the size, and he only ended up hurting us yesterday with his drops in the endzone. I really wonder how that will effect their trust in games moving forward - they trusted him so much they gave him our two best chances to score, back to back, the same play call. And he couldn't come up with either of them. You do have to wonder if Thomas would've made those plays...

I don't think they're(McNabb included b/c it was his choice to target Armstrong) going to suddenly stop trusting a player they've had faith in all off season.

I wonder if Thomas would have had the patience to set-up the fade route enough to get open.

-BTW Shanahan said the second time was an audible it wasn't the called play

sidenote-If McNabb waited just a nose hair longer on either play Cooley had TD for sure.

I believe that Armstrong could turn into an Eddie Royal-lite for us, but I'm not any more sold on his potential for consistency than Thomas.

But again, this surely comes down to pre-game preparation...

I like that comparison and you could be right, but as much as i want Devin to emerge, and i do, he had all off season to prove it.

Moss can get downfield and get behind the defense, but he's not as fast nor elusive as he was three years ago. There've already been plays where he would've gotten more yards in previous seasons. He rarely makes defenders miss anymore in the open field, and he doesn't have the gamebreaking speed to catch a ball and run past/through all would-be tacklers for huge gains. He used to be a threat to score every time he touched the ball, like Desean Jackson now, and he, quite simply, isn't anymore. He's lost a little bit.

Agree to disagree.

Moss's type of speed doesn't vanish instead of running a 4.2 he probably runs a 4.3 which is till plenty fast.

Good discussion and good points, i look forward to hearing your opinion on the passing game as the season progresses.

Week 1 i give the passing game as a whole a C- but i'm sure they'll get better.

HTTR!

[darrelgreenie]

You know, Devin Thomas has played running back in his football past. Why not groom him as a third down back?

That would be very interesting.

Sometime teams have motioned WRs into the backfield on passing downs before.

(I recall ARE a couple times under Saunders)

We motioned Cooley in the backfield on some of the 3rd down shotgun formations.

It would be a very innovative way to get Devin on the field as solve the lack of a 3rd receiving threat out of the backfield.

But somewhere between 1 and never in the realm of actually happening.

[thebluefood]

If he never pans out as a receiver, he could at least be a great return man

This^

And there's no shame in that, either.