Rex "offense works better against 4-3"

[speedmike]

Rex was talking about the ZBS and the run game and wasn't really discussing the passing game at that point. He indicated that when the run game gets going, that's when you can get more of the play action-pass open up. He was talking about how hard it is for the O-line to get to their spots and block off angles when you had more guys moving around pre-snap.

And as for the other discussion, the Vikings absolutely run a base 4-3. Allen-Williams-Williams-Edwards. While a lot of teams incorporate 3-4 elements in their schemes (See: Skins at least ever since Gregg Williams showed up in town), about half the league still runs a base 4-3.

[MartinC]

The Boys run a 3-4, and a good one at that. We better be able to run against it.

I think you will see us attack the Cowboys through the air. We will run enough to keep them honest and respect the play action but it will be on McNabbs back. Our line has looked much better at pass protection than run blocking thus far and we picked up the blitz really well against the Jets.

[MartinC]

OK, I will make this a bit more succinct. The only team that does not run a defense out of a base 3-4 defense is da Bears (which makes them a 4-3).

The other 31 teams in the NFL run a base 3-4 defense, OK?

Really? I think you need to go take a look at some other teams play - at least half the NFL still run a base 4-3 set.

[laxpck]

THe Vikes do NOT run a 3-4. ATL runs a tradition 4-3 with Lofton as MLB. Patrick Willis is a traditional MLB in a 4-3 I am pretty sure. Arizona runs a 4-3.

How does any of this explain why if the Jets cant run and have to rely on Sanchez they are coooked?

[MartinC]

THe Vikes do NOT run a 3-4. ATL runs a tradition 4-3 with Lofton as MLB. Patrick Willis is a traditional MLB in a 4-3 I am pretty sure. Arizona runs a 4-3.

You dont have to look outside the NFC East to find teams running a 4-3. Both the Giants and Eagles are 4-3 teams. They only time you see either team in a 3 man front is some nickle looks and when they go dime.

[NeckBone]

at first i thought this was rex ryan's quote

Right! I feel that we should be referring Grossman as Rexy, makes me think of this everytime: http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2006/11/f-k-it-im-throwing-it-downfield.html

[Mania]

McNabb has been in the league for damn near 15 years. He knows how to make the adjustments to a 3-4.

McNabb was drafted in 1999. He is entering his 12th season in the NFL.

I believe I read earlier in the offseason that this season will have 15 teams running the 3-4 defense.

[tr1]

Rex was talking about the ZBS and the run game and wasn't really discussing the passing game at that point. He indicated that when the run game gets going, that's when you can get more of the play action-pass open up. He was talking about how hard it is for the O-line to get to their spots and block off angles when you had more guys moving around pre-snap.

That's what I saw, too.

I don't understand the hate directed at Rex.

I think the guy is a pretty good find as a backup. And, considering McNabb's age and potential for injury, I don't have any problem with this guy filling in. He's made a lot of blunders in the past, but the offense has never really stalled when he played.

[Chachie]

I personally haven't seen the interview and don't know the context in which he said this. I also have no idea how our offense will play out against 3-4s or 4-3s this season, but-

I find it funny that some of us are challenging Rex Grossman's knowledge of Kyle Shanahan's offense and and it's design against certain packages. Rex is no Bill Walsh but he's got the jump on every one of us on this subject.

[Redskins4ever]

Baltimore's defense and the Jets defense are very tough defenses. They both have fast linebackers who can get after the ball carrier. 3-4 defenses are tougher because of the number of linebackers. The linemen are used to tie up the opposing offensive line so they LBs can make plays. Plus in passing situation, the offense never knows where the extra rusher is coming from. 3-4 is a complex defense.

[IHOPSkins]

ShantheMan went to a 3-4 because it was "better"

If you define better as "Giving the offense more problems"...Rex and Shanahan are in agreement

HTTR

[Metalhead387]

Teams that run 3-4:

Patriots

Jets

Buffalo

Miami

Steelers

Ravens

San Diego

Denver

Kansas City(I think)

Green Bay

Washington

Dallas

Arizona

San Fran

Seattle

Teams that run a 4-3:

Cinci

Cleveland

Titans

Colts

Jags

Texans

Raiders

Eagles

Giants

Lions

Vikings

Bears

Falcons

Saints

Bucs

Panthers

Rams

[ATLredskin]

I'm still not seeing any postives from this defense. The 3-4 didn't create any turnovers against the Jets first team last night. Sanchez was pressured when he threw that pick and Buchanon stripped the ball after almost getting burned. The 3-4 I saw last night allowed Tomlinson and Greene to have big games. Week 1 Barber, Choice, and Jones may be a real problem for us plus our 4-3 always worked against the Cowboys.

[justice98]

Dallas and Green Bay both play the 3-4, but only one of them plays it well. The Packers defense is terrible.

[laxpck]

I'm still not seeing any postives from this defense. The 3-4 didn't create any turnovers against the Jets first team last night. Sanchez was pressured when he threw that pick and Buchanon stripped the ball after almost getting burned. The 3-4 I saw last night allowed Tomlinson and Greene to have big games. Week 1 Barber, Choice, and Jones may be a real problem for us plus our 4-3 always worked against the Cowboys.

I completely agree on the first two drives last night, but the difference after that was astonishing. The cutback lanes got taken away and we pretty much stoned them, not to mention we were going vanilla on blitz packages.

I am excited about the 3-4. I think Carriker, Kemo and Haynesworht on the the front three is pretty much unstopable.

[jflow78]

Dallas and Green Bay both play the 3-4, but only one of them plays it well. The Packers defense is terrible.

Completely true. Where our defense seems to be incapable of stopping the run, theirs seems incapable of stopping the pass. That's why I figure most of their games are going to be in the 40s this season.

They have an insanely high powered offense, and no passing defense whatsoever. Woodson is good for some INTs, and their safety Collins is a monster, but other than that they give up TONS of passing yardage.

EDIT: I'm not sure why everyone is hatin' on Rex either. You know what you're going to get with him, so I'm not sure what everyone is expecting. He's a fantastic backup plan, I don't want him as a starter but compared to most teams 2nd stringers, he's a good deal. Not to mention I love the fact that he makes decisions very very quick and gets the ball out of his hands. And, yes, he loves to throw the deep ball, which we've been lacking for nearly a decade.

This preseason he's played okay. I thought last night was a little better than against the Ravens, but the Jets and Ravens both play great defense, so I didn't expect a flawless night. I like him.

[IS guhn RAIN]

I'm still not seeing any postives from this defense. The 3-4 didn't create any turnovers against the Jets first team last night. Sanchez was pressured when he threw that pick.

You just answered your question. The 3-4 creates pressure because you dont know where the blitz is coming from. The pressure from that play is the positive of a 3-4.

And everyone needs to watch this interview before bashing Rex. I thought it was a great interview and he wasnt complaining at all. Kelly Johnson asked him how the offense was coming along and he basically said its going great and were really close to getting it down. Things are coming along extremely well and it will go even better when they start playing 4-3 teams in the regular season because the offense and the ZBS of the running game excels against 4-3 teams.

He wasnt making excuses at all and said he thought they did really well against two of the better 3-4 teams and its only going to get better against teams that run a 4-3 because the running game will pick up against them and then playaction will start working much better.

[Ruff Stuff]

I'm still not seeing any postives from this defense. The 3-4 didn't create any turnovers against the Jets first team last night. Sanchez was pressured when he threw that pick and Buchanon stripped the ball after almost getting burned.

If we aren't going to count picks from qb pressure or strips what are we allowed to count? The 3-4 is a failure if we don't get at least 3 turnovers on downs?

Also, I don't think its fair to say things like "oh if it wasn't for x, y would have happened." If it wasn't for us sucking, we wouldn't have gone 4-12.

Have you ever noticed with the good teams, those scenarios always seem to come out in their favor? I think thats one of the things that really separates the good and bad teams.

Here's how a Greg Blehhch D drive would go.

Bend

Bend

Snap Landry gets burnt for a deep Td

>So Far< the new D has been:

Get run all over but tighten up and make the other team kick a fg

Still look soft but get turnover

Make stop and force punt.

If things keep going the way they've been I'll take Mr. Haslett ftw.

[MartinC]

I'm still not seeing any postives from this defense. The 3-4 didn't create any turnovers against the Jets first team last night.

Yes we did. The Jets played their starters into the 4th quarter. Trust me Sanchez is their starting QB and Holmes will be their 2nd WR once he serves his suspension.

Sanchez was pressured when he threw that pick

You say that like its a bad thing. That was one of the reasons we switched to a 3-4, to bring more pressure and help create more opportunities for turnovers.

The 3-4 I saw last night allowed Tomlinson and Greene to have big games. Week 1 Barber, Choice, and Jones may be a real problem for us plus our 4-3 always worked against the Cowboys.

I agree here - we have looked soft against the run and I think that might be a theme all year. We did look better when Haynesworth was in the lineup and we were better second half as well.

[maxiumone]

Yes, all teams - except the Bears run a BASE 3-4 defense in the NFL. They may substitute different lineups in certain situations but their BASE defense is still a 3-4. Just because they do not identify a NT on their roster as an NT does not mean that a DT does not fill that position.

The Skins have shown a 3-4; a 2-4; a 4-3 - it does not matter. Their BASE defense is a 3-4. The Saints are definitely a BASE 3-4 because of all of the DB's they like to through out. The Vikes have a great front 3 - they do not need a fourth; they can send out another LB or CB on a whim.

I am sorry, but you are in error.

You are only correct in that the only team never to run a 3-4 is Chicago the Skins being the other till this year. The Saint, Giants, Philly, Chicago, Atl, Min, Indy all run a base 4-3 defense.

Now the Saint DC is Gregg Williams and he does run a lot of 3-3-5 in nickle and will run some 2 man fronts in dime and quarter but his base is the very same it was when he was in Washington.

Also Gregg Williams often does start the game in a three man front and have been toying with going to a 3-4.

[Leopard11]

Im not convinced the packers have a "terrible" D. They created a ton of turnovers last year. Sure they got lit up in the playoffs. But they held the Ravens who supposedly had potent offense to like 3 points for 3 full qtrs maybe more when they played them in GB. The one thing we have lacked for the last 3 years is turnovers, scheme calls and such. The negetive is if you generally going to give up 4 or 5 yards on power run type call, if no penetration or we are playing the pass totally. Positive is a guy like D Hall can sit back in zone while we bull rush the QB and just play the ball on a 3rd and 8+. I hope for the best but the worst is never out of mind just need to keep working kinks out and getting the players to jive and flow with the system.

[Hitman21ST]

I

>So Far< the new D has been:

Get run all over but tighten up and make the other team kick a fg

Still look soft but get turnover

Make stop and force punt.

If things keep going the way they've been I'll take Mr. Haslett ftw.

Exactly. Who cares how many yards we give up if we're only allowing FGs and getting turnovers and punts?

[21MadFan]

>So Far< the new D has been:

Get run all over but tighten up and make the other team kick a fg

Still look soft but get turnover

Make stop and force punt.

Sounds like the Saints last year and if I remember correctly they seemed to do pretty well last year.

[Peregrine]

The Packers did switch to 3-4 last year under DC Dom Capers.

I really don't see that the 3-4 gives this offense any more problems than it does any other offense. Besides, in the last two weeks the issues have been with dropped/overthrown balls, not because our receivers couldn't get open.

And we've played two fantastic defenses the last couple weeks.

I completely agree, I'm not sure I counted more than one or two places in the entire game where we DIDN'T have a receiver open, it was just a matter of missed throws and some drops. The plays were all there.

[darklight1216]

Im not convinced the packers have a "terrible" D. They created a ton of turnovers last year. Sure they got lit up in the playoffs. But they held the Ravens who supposedly had potent offense to like 3 points for 3 full qtrs maybe more when they played them in GB. The one thing we have lacked for the last 3 years is turnovers, scheme calls and such. The negetive is if you generally going to give up 4 or 5 yards on power run type call, if no penetration or we are playing the pass totally. Positive is a guy like D Hall can sit back in zone while we bull rush the QB and just play the ball on a 3rd and 8+. I hope for the best but the worst is never out of mind just need to keep working kinks out and getting the players to jive and flow with the system.

The Packers defense isn't terrible; they finished second overall last season, I believe.

I think it's merely unreliable.