WP/Boswell- Staying rational

[TheShredder]

I hate to say it but I think this team is a mess. Shannahan inherited a huge disaster and it will take a while to fix. McNabb is not going to be able to do much behind that aging line and the WR's are basically a joke. Portis is tough but pushing 30 with 2 back-up washed up almost 30 yr olds.

The D looks really uncomfortable in the new scheme and it would be really interesting to see players actually play in the positions they excel in and were trained for.

The skins went from the 5th oldest team in the league to the oldest. I am sure it is going to show.

we are looking at 5-11 maybe 6-10.

I was hoping McNabb alone would add 3-4 more wins over the useless Campbell but I am not too sure now.

Bottom feeders again.

Hope I am wrong.

You couldn't be further from the truth on this.

First, Allen and Shanahan have had an entire year to fix what needed to be fixed and have been working wonders. The aging front line? I think you better go look at how old our OL is. The only old guy is Hicks and he wasn't slotted for the starting RG but MW was and Hicks is the replacement. That's depth. Portis is fresh and motivated more then ever. He has 28 yr. old legs and has had more time off and training then any other veteran RB in the league. Portis will be a top 10 back this year even if the OL has some growing pains. The D is looking like it's preseason...because it is! They're not scheming or game planning, but they are practicing! That's what a preseason game is...a full speed practice. The D will be improved over last year without a doubt. They have more veterans then first or second year players and if the veteran gets hurt, then guess what? You'll have that freshmen team your complaining about. There is noway that with all that was wrong with the 2009 team that this team won't have a winning record. They could get decimated by injuries, but every team runs that risk. I think if you wanted to say that some seasons you get hit with a lot of injuries and then other years you don't...well compared to last year and how it's gone through preseason, this years team will do fine with keeping the starters in tact. That is football.

Skins will compete for the playoffs all the way through the season. Have some faith in reality and don't be so pessimistic.

[Mursilis]

You couldn't be further from the truth on this.

First, Allen and Shanahan have had an entire year to fix what needed to be fixed and have been working wonders. The aging front line? I think you better go look at how old our OL is. The only old guy is Hicks and he wasn't slotted for the starting RG but MW was and Hicks is the replacement. That's depth.

No, that's dumb - you forgot Rabach. FYI, he's 32 and will turn 33 next month. That's pretty old for OL, and he's not the center he was when he got here. Brown and Dockery are both 29, and Dock will be 30 in just a few weeks. So aside from rookie T. Williams, our starting projected O-line is 29, 29, 31, and 32. That's not exactly a youth revolution.

[Chachie]

I hate to say it but I think this team is a mess. Shannahan inherited a huge disaster and it will take a while to fix. McNabb is not going to be able to do much behind that aging line and the WR's are basically a joke. Portis is tough but pushing 30 with 2 back-up washed up almost 30 yr olds.

The D looks really uncomfortable in the new scheme and it would be really interesting to see players actually play in the positions they excel in and were trained for.

The skins went from the 5th oldest team in the league to the oldest. I am sure it is going to show.

we are looking at 5-11 maybe 6-10.

I was hoping McNabb alone would add 3-4 more wins over the useless Campbell but I am not too sure now.

Bottom feeders again.

Hope I am wrong.

And in contrast to Brotherz' half full glass comes USS Redskins' half empty. Both make such excellent points because that's exactly where the Redskins stand. The pressure is on before the true "rebuild" begins. I just can't expect big things.

Good points have been made about the other NFCE teams having issues as well but due to their better draft policies in the past they are all deeper and better prepared to compensate. We're paper-thin. Any success we garner this season early on will be fragile. Like Boswell said, if everything goes perfect we go 9-7. Still a drastic turnaround and I think Bos is just trying to make everyone understand that we shouldn't get too down if we don't make the playoffs.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I am in the minority here, but I actually don't care how many games they win, as long as they look professional, and are improving. I am a believer that it takes time to learn and cultivate a scheme. The truly successful teams over a long period of time have stability. They don't keep changing systems. Which means that everybody can get comfortable in the system, and at most you only have 2-3 players on each side of the ball who have to get familiar with system per year.

The 'Skins have changed systems like 9 times in the last 11 years. Every year, you have to learn something new. It takes time.

I think that this year, they're going to start slow, and eventually get better. I don't think the offense specifically is going to look like anything special until October/November. The defense might be able to be a bit quicker, but they really have people playing out of position at OLB, and the DEs are just not that great.

So this is going to take some time. I'll take Bruce/Shanny/McNabb over Vinny/Zorn/JC any day of the week. But it's going to take some time to get things figured out...

[pjfootballer]

My call has been 8-8 for this season, even after the bills game...

Lets remember... new O & D schemes, new coaches, new players (including lineman who have to learn each other)

8-8 is still a big improvement over last year :doh:

I agree with Pez, anything above 9-7 is just bonus. I'm expecting less embarrassing play this year. I want the other team to have to bring their "A" game to beat us and not their "C" game. But I refuse to say "Medium".

[Skinz4Life12]

there are two reason's why i think this team may not win at least 8 games this year.

1. The depth and health of the O-Line. Our offensive success revolves around it.

2. Our schedule. It is wicked hard this year compared to last year.

[pjfootballer]

I hate to say it but I think this team is a mess. Shannahan inherited a huge disaster and it will take a while to fix. McNabb is not going to be able to do much behind that aging line and the WR's are basically a joke. Portis is tough but pushing 30 with 2 back-up washed up almost 30 yr olds.

The D looks really uncomfortable in the new scheme and it would be really interesting to see players actually play in the positions they excel in and were trained for.

The skins went from the 5th oldest team in the league to the oldest. I am sure it is going to show.

we are looking at 5-11 maybe 6-10.

I was hoping McNabb alone would add 3-4 more wins over the useless Campbell but I am not too sure now.

Bottom feeders again.

Hope I am wrong.

They've done a pretty good job plugging the leaks in only 8 months. I'll admit that I wish we could have had more draft picks to replace players, but Rome wasn't built in a day and they could only work with what Vinny left them.

McNabb's experience will trump half the crap Campbell couldn't deal with. Against Baltimore, the play by the goal line would have been a safety if Jason was at QB. McNabb felt the pressure and escaped with a nice pass to Cooley (I think). And I think the system (ZBS) fits this line better, especially an undersized center like Rabach.

CP is healthy, lighter and more motivated. And he's only 28. Not saying he'll put up 1500 yards, but 1200 is realistic. The other 2 are question marks.

The D will look uncomfortable for a few games, but again, it may take this year to get the kinks out.

I wish we could have gotten younger also, but we only had 6 picks and needed a QB.

Detroit also uses the 3-4, and they finished dead last in '09. It's not the scheme so much as it's the players.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Detroit runs a 3-4.

I don't get that. So, are you going to jump ship if they don't go 16-0 this year?

That's not what he was saying.

No, that's dumb - you forgot Rabach. FYI, he's 32 and will turn 33 next month. That's pretty old for OL, and he's not the center he was when he got here. Brown and Dockery are both 29, and Dock will be 30 in just a few weeks. So aside from rookie T. Williams, our starting projected O-line is 29, 29, 31, and 32. That's not exactly a youth revolution.

I don't think there is a rule that says 30 is too old. Brown is a question mark because of his hip, not his age. Dock has been solid. Rabach may actually be better with this scheme since he's an undersized center. He won't have to use power against NTs/DTs and get overpowered. Hicks is a veteran and knows this system. He's worked with McNabb in Philly. Trent is a keeper. I think he'll surprise alot of people. The line is a question mark, but we can say it has improved. And don't forget, Allen and Shanahan didn't ignore the line in the draft by picking Williams, Capers and Cook.

[USS Redskins]

You couldn't be further from the truth on this.

First, Allen and Shanahan have had an entire year to fix what needed to be fixed and have been working wonders. The aging front line? I think you better go look at how old our OL is. The only old guy is Hicks and he wasn't slotted for the starting RG but MW was and Hicks is the replacement. That's depth. Portis is fresh and motivated more then ever. He has 28 yr. old legs and has had more time off and training then any other veteran RB in the league. Portis will be a top 10 back this year even if the OL has some growing pains. The D is looking like it's preseason...because it is! They're not scheming or game planning, but they are practicing! That's what a preseason game is...a full speed practice. The D will be improved over last year without a doubt. They have more veterans then first or second year players and if the veteran gets hurt, then guess what? You'll have that freshmen team your complaining about. There is noway that with all that was wrong with the 2009 team that this team won't have a winning record. They could get decimated by injuries, but every team runs that risk. I think if you wanted to say that some seasons you get hit with a lot of injuries and then other years you don't...well compared to last year and how it's gone through preseason, this years team will do fine with keeping the starters in tact. That is football.

Skins will compete for the playoffs all the way through the season. Have some faith in reality and don't be so pessimistic.

1 year now equals 8 months?

Check your OL ages... Brown will be 29 (coming off injury), Dockery will be 30, Rabach 33 and Hicks is 31 -thats 123 years for 4 starters plus a young potential stud at 22... Thats allot of miles. They are built for a 10 game season. If the 2 of these guys were backups that would be awesome depth.

Portis isnt finished but he is not a top 10 back anymore... he is 28 but in running back years, more like 34 with all the carries and punishment heaped on him the last 5 seasons. He is a warrior but no one to back him up... at least not yet - Shann does do wonders with no-name running backs.

I agree the D could be good... next year - maybe late this season. They will need a season to learn the 3-4. They just look confused at times. There are quite a few players playing out of their natural positions and they need time to adapt.

I am being patient, not pessimistic.

[Botched]

8-8 sounds good right now, but if we earn that record the same way we did in 2008, I don't think many of us will be happy with it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

8-8 sounds good right now, but if we earn that record the same way we did in 2008, I don't think many of us will be happy with it.

That's a good point...I think many of us will rate this year based on how the record is obtained, not the record itself.

[ACW]

My goal: Go AT LEAST 3-3 in division.

Go AT LEAST 1-2 vs. MIN/IND/GB

Go 3-0 vs. STL/DET/TB, with at least one of those by 15+ points.

Go AT LEAST 2-2 vs. CHI/TEN/JAX/HOU.

(or make those 2-1 and 3-1).

Thus, go AT LEAST 9-7.

[Brotherz]

And in contrast to Brotherz' half full glass comes USS Redskins' half empty. Both make such excellent points because that's exactly where the Redskins stand. The pressure is on before the true "rebuild" begins. I just can't expect big things.

Good points have been made about the other NFCE teams having issues as well but due to their better draft policies in the past they are all deeper and better prepared to compensate. We're paper-thin. Any success we garner this season early on will be fragile. Like Boswell said, if everything goes perfect we go 9-7. Still a drastic turnaround and I think Bos is just trying to make everyone understand that we shouldn't get too down if we don't make the playoffs.

Just to clarify, while I definately took a "half full" approach, my actual prediction for the team is 9-7 and I wouldn't fall over from surprise if they were 8-8. Its the idea that they will be 6-10 BECAUSE they were 4-12 last year that bothers me about this article of Bos. I think it puts too much weight on the past when the present is very very different.

That being said, I wouldn't argue with someone who said 7-9 because of:

1) Strength of schedule

2) O-line age and inexperience together as a unit

3) tough division

4) new system on both sides of the ball

5) rookie left tackle

6) injury concerns/depth

My problem is saying that last year was a debacle so we are fortunate to only get to 2 more wins this year than last because that is our "starting point".

Since this discussion has progressed to "what is dissappointing?" I'd like to offer that the record itself is less important to me than how we got there. I think another poster had the same sentiment but basically there are a few interesting scenarios:

1) We win the games "we should win" (ie rams, lions, tampa bay etc.) and lose to "good teams" (ie everyone in our division, colts, pack, vikes etc).

2) We win early because nobody has a book on us (hell even Zorn did this to a 6-2 fraudulent start in 08') and then trend down toward end of the season when our age and lack of depth show themselves and people have more film on our new scheme

3) We win late and lose early because we get better, become more cohesive and start learning how to play within our new systems.

4) We win early because of number 2 and win late because of number 3!!!

Obviously, scenario #4 is what I am hoping for. But if I don't get that I think I'd prefer #3 as it would give us alot to look forward to next year and would follow a "progression" we haven't seen much around here in the recent past. #1 and #2 would be the most bothersome because it means wwe have talent issues relative to other teams and #2 would be bothersome because we have talent issues and our coaching isn't as superior as I am banking on if getting film on us helps teams "catch up" to us. I firmly believe that is the ONLY reason Zorn won at all here in D.C.

[Warhead36]

Most teams in the NFL are average. Winning 10 games doesn't require much but consistent good play and a little luck. We'll win anywhere between 6 and 10 games. Less than 6 is usually for the awful teams(which we won't be)and more than 10 is for the elite(which we also won't be).