Still wanting to trade Cooley huh? Shame on you!

[Jeff in D.C.]

I believe we have the best TE combo in the league, now that Cools & Sleepy have a legitimate QB throwing them the ball and a great OC calling formations & plays, I expect both of them to have huge years.

[BadKarma]

The problem with our TE's is that both of them are average to below average blockers. This league is more focused on finding more well rounded / elite blocking TE's these days rather than undersized pure pass catching TE's who are a dime a dozen. We may have one of the best receiving TE groups in the NFL but we have one of the worst blocking units. It really showed up last year when we needed someone to step in and help in pass protection due to the Oline injuries, hopefully we can avoid the injury bug this year but I can almost guarantee Shanny will be looking to upgrade to a better blocking TE before he extends the contracts of both Davis / Cooley.

[commyderm2]

Seriously.. This is like the Yankees fans screaming from the top of mountains that they need to trade Cano.. Can you imagine the Yankees without Cano right now.. Well, I can't imagine the Redskins without Cooley.. That guy is something special..

[skinsfan4128]

The problem with our TE's is that both of them are average to below average blockers. This league is more focused on finding more well rounded / elite blocking TE's these days rather than undersized pure pass catching TE's who are a dime a dozen. We may have one of the best receiving TE groups in the NFL but we have one of the worst blocking units. It really showed up last year when we needed someone to step in and help in pass protection due to the Oline injuries, hopefully we can avoid the injury bug this year but I can almost guarantee Shanny will be looking to upgrade to a better blocking TE before he extends the contracts of both Davis / Cooley.

Are u :pooh: me? CC is a very good blocking TE who has said throughout the TC that he has gotten even better. Davis has improved in his blocking and Lee Vickers is even said to be serviceable more at blocking than receiving (eve though he has been a surprise at TC as a receiving TE as well). Ain't trying to :pokeye: at you, Karma, but to say our TEs can't block is ludicrous. We're good at TE, not a problem.

[GhostofSparta]

It's called getting value when it's at it's maximum.

That's exacly why I thought it was a bad idea to trade Cooley this last offseason, after a season-ending ankle injury that nobody was quite sure how quickly/effectively he'd recover from it with a below-average QB throwing to him the last couple of years. Shockey went for a 2 (I think, maybe a 3) a couple of years ago, and Cooley is better than him. Gonzalez went for a 2, and Cooley is much younger, in his prime rather than at the end of his career. And there were people on here who were ok with trading Cooley for a 3rd.

Now, if Cooley stays healthy and he becomes McNabb's favorite target, his value would be much higher this next offseason than the last one. Then I can see the trade talks, but I just thought it was bad timing to talk about trading our starting TE when he was recovering from a season-ending injury. That tends to lower trade value just a tad.

[Maximus71]

Glad you like the toons.

Fair enough, disagreement is fine and encouraged. It's no fun if everyone agrees.

See? Look here, I'm the dick everyone gets to yell at in this thread.

now... regardless of the offer? If a 1st and 3rd were offered you wouldn't consider it? You'd have to.

See, this is why I say it's win win. As it is, we didn't entertain offers as we know it, so we end up with two great TEs this year.

If we had traded him, odds are the compensation would have been pretty decent, and we'd win there, too.

I don't think there's a single player on this team who is untradeable, except maybe Fletcher or Orakpo... ok McNabb too. At least this year.

And I must say it's much easier to say this in knowing that we have Shanallen listening to offers rather than Vinny. If it was Vinny I'd be terrified of doing anything for fear of being taken to the cleaners again.

~Bang

Every team you named have been winners for years, they acquired their top players and won with them and became a competitive team. Then perhaps as they got older they decided to trade them to get younger and better players etc... Our team has done Jack **** so far in the past 10 years! We need to hold to as much talent as we can until we become a team like the Patriots.

I still love your cartoons Bang

[bulldog]

I like Cooley but I do see potential scenarios where I would have considered dealing him.

If for example the Redskins had been able to package him for a deal for a top receiving prospect or established veteran under 30, that is something the team would have needed to look at doing.

Cooley is very good. He is not untradeable.

[wvtbred]

Cooley is a multiple time Pro Bowl TE in the prime of his career. HE is the future of the TE position in DC!

Some people just get so obsessed with draft picks that they loose sight of the fact that you burn a draft pick praying to get a player like Cooley, but usually don't...

Agreed and a lot of those who wanted to trade Cooley didn't want to trade Campbell, go figure.

With DMc this is going to be a great year for all that can catch a ball.

:point2sky

[Quixote]

I am a Campbell apologist, but I've never once thought that McNabb wasn't the right move to improve the position. I'm happy he's here. Excited. Ecstatic. On the record, I was/am on board with that trade. (Still weird to see him outside of an iggles uniform--beside the point) It bummed me out a wee bit that Campbell's time had come, but it was fairly easy for me to get behind McNabb.

Beside the fact that we have a better QB, I think our TE and WR production will start with--what will hopefully continue to be--a more functional O-line. No more road cones in front of our man. No more sacks before the last step a three step drop. That, and the ridiculous play calling of Zorn, were Campbell's biggest set backs last year IMHO.

Considering that, I think Cooley isn't the only guy who will look like he's in top form. Cooley's such a BA, anyway... not hard for him to BE in top form. Given the protection that McNabb needs and the experience he brings to the QB position, I think we're gonna see some solid performances from everyone designed to catch the ball. Davis, Moss, Thomas, and our new old-timer wideouts will be better served by the upgrades at the QB and O-line positions--both in talent and form. Hopefully, big Mike Sellers and some of the young guys will get opportunities (by design) and be able to take advantage of them.

I'm a realist though. All the aforementioned is, of course, assuming that our 1st preseason game is an indication of the direction that this team is headed. The questions remaining:

• How high is the ceiling?
  
• How fast will they get there?
  
• Are there any crippling weak links yet to be exposed?
  
• Do the wheels, simply and inexplicably, come off?
  
• (knock-on-wood) Does the injury bug bite?
  

The Bills are bad. Also, our 2nd string had FatAlbert crushing their 2nd string Oline. I'm still not fully convinced that this team is capable of those types of performances on a consistent basis. Please, prove me wrong on Sept 12. As much as my B&G blood wants me to shake those feelings, I've been burned by them soooo many times. I think my emotions have earned the right to withhold excitement.

I think I covered three city blocks both before and after I made my point but...:2cents:

HAIL:point2sky:point2sky:point2sky

[NoCalMike]

Ok here's the thing though. As much as we THINK Fred Davis has the potential to be pure greatness, it hasn't translated to the field yet. The premise of my original post was that Fred Davis is still a question mark as far as how good he can and will end up being. If for some reason he fizzled or just never lived up to the hype, he would hardly be the first player with "all the athletic tools in the woodshed" to see it not translate on the field.

Am I saying this is what I think would happen? No. I think Fred Davis is going to be a great player, and will flourish in this system. However at the same time, before we go trading a proven player and a consistent weapon in every offense we have ran so far. Lets, let Fred Davis SHOW he is an elite tight end first. Once Fred Davis's production on the field matches his potential, then we can asses where we are as far as the future of the position goes.

Maybe my original post or thread title was a bit misleading. Sure, if Fred Davis eclipses Cooley as the best tight end on our team, and we are thrown a deal too good to be true, then it is something the front office should and probably would explore. however as of yet, neither of the two scenarios has happened, yet people were ready to hand Cooley his walking papers based on another player's potential and a 1st/2nd round draft pick trade offers that never even took place.

[Bang]

Every team you named have been winners for years, they acquired their top players and won with them and became a competitive team. Then perhaps as they got older they decided to trade them to get younger and better players etc... Our team has done Jack **** so far in the past 10 years! We need to hold to as much talent as we can until we become a team like the Patriots.

I still love your cartoons Bang

All you said is true, except that the continued acquiring of high draft choices is part and parcel as to how they continue to rotate players in and maintain a high level of play.

All in all I think GhostofSparta is 100% correct in that Cooley will most likely increase in value with McNabb.

But when we originally had this discussion, no one dreamed McNabb was coming in.

~Bang

[bulldog]

Well, it's not a complete sample however Davis did have 48 receptions and 6 TDs in only 8 or 9 games last year.

He has a lot more on field cred at this point to me than Kevin Kolb :laugh:

[Meast21]

If we traded Cooley we would have wideouts who are old, haven't produced, and Moss. And Fred Davis who did big things for us in 6 games but I wanna see it all season before I say hes going to be great.

[Kindred]

Would you guys trade Cooley for Revis? I would.

[bulldog]

My scenario involves dealing Cooley as part of a package for an established WR.

I would not trade Cooley for a linebacker or a running back or a safety.

Sure, I would trade Cooley for Revis - Revis is perhaps the best cover corner in the NFL and is just reaching his prime

There is no way the Jets would do that deal, however.

Assuming you could pick up Revis, you could then deal Rogers for a wide receiver.

[skins2victory]

So this entire offseason there had been a growing notion that some were soooo sure Fred Davis was the next big thing that you were ready to trade away Cooley for some picks.

Now, while I agree that Fred Davis is going to be a very productive TE for us, especially in this system. Chris Cooley showed us last night why he is still definately the #1 TE on this team. Dude was open from the get-go. Caught everything that came his way, and was pretty much uncoverable. He also showed good hands on that rocket from McNabb, extending the arms and making that catch, not to mention the hit he took afterwards.

McNabb has been here for five minutes and it looks like Cooley is already his favorite target. No surprise here.

Hopefully Fred Davis can grow into his role as well, cause having another TE on the field of that caliber would almost be unfair to opposing secondaries.

I think Cooley is primed for a huge season, and his name is going to go back on the list of elite TEs in the league now that he has a solid QB throwing the ball his way.

:point2sky:beavisnbutthead:

-Great post!! Cooley is a special player and I dont want to see him play in any other color than B&G!!

-Not to mention the skins have the potential to have the best 2 TE tandom ever. It is really rare to have 2 great tight ends like we do. They should tear up the league this year. I dont see why anyone would want to throw that away before it happends.

[apiah]

I really think you guys are overrating this two tight end sets a little too much. At the end of the day I think having two elite wide recievers is much more important then having two elite tightends. The giants had shockey and kevin boss at one time but noone raved about that because their wide revievers caught most of the balls because they were good.

Along with taht I believe that good tightends are a dime in the dozen. When Todd Yoder got his chance he had great games for us, and half the time good tightends dont even get recognition when they are on a team with alot of good wide recievers. Ex. Jeremy Shockey. I still think we should trade Cooley and rather than having two dominant tightends i rather have a good reciever opposite of Moss and we can let another Yoder show how good he is.

[Oldskool]

Surprised we didn't see 2 TE sets...

Can't show your hand too soon.

[Est.1974]

The fact that our WR's suck would make me less inclined to trade Cooley. This talk of 2 TE sets wouldn't be so hyped if we had a proven WR group. As we only have Moss who seems a cert' to start, the 2 TE sets seems our best option at present to build our passing game around. Plus Cooley has been one of the few highlights from the last few years. That's why he is loved so much. So, I do expect Cooley & Davis to have very good years.

But, there is no way a TE in outright 'untradeable'. I can't understand that viewpoint.

[Parsec2010]

I admit I thought we should of traded Cooley. Mainly because him and Fred are to talented to be sharing time. They both need to be on the field as much as possible. I can't recall any teams that have ran double TE's with 2 stud TE's. So it's going to be interesting watching how this plays out.

[DexterSackMachine]

Three catches for 33 yards in a preseason game against the sorry Bills? This fame was unlikely to change anyone's mind.

I thought we should trade Cooley, if we could have gotten a second rounder for him. I also would have been okay with trading Davis. Tight end is one of the least useful places on the roster to have elite depth. Who is the backup tight end for the Chiefs, Chargers, or 49'ers? The answer is, for the most part, "who cares". The only on field evidence that would change my mind would be the sight of a ton of two tight end sets.

I also think we would have entertained offers for Cooley, but that noone was knocking down our door. For one reason or another, this past offseason was a buyer's market when it comes to vets. Boldin for a 2nd? Santonio Holmes for a 5th? Brandon Marshall for two 2nds? That is ridiculous value. I forgot the theft of Cromartie by the Jets. The only trade from last year that I recall favoring the team moving the veteran, was Seymour for a future 1st.

In any case, it is beyond obvious to say that whether it would have been worth it to trade for Cooley depends on what you could get back. If you could package him for a proven vet like Brandon Marshall, then that is a no brainer. If trading Cooley would have allowed us to take Jahvid Best, Kyle Wilson, or Terrence Cody, then I would have been all for the move. If we wound up with a Tatum Bell type player, then you've made a mistake.

In any case, I'd view depth at OL, DL, CB, WR, RB and LB as more important than depth at TE. You can only run so many two TE formations.

Cooley is the kind of hardcore building block player that you build a franchise around. He's what you're hoping for when you get a second round pick. It goes far beyond being a Pro Bowl level player on the field. He's a guy who has a goal of never missing a practice! He's a throwback type of player that is very rare. Trading him would be like the Pats trading Welker...too important to what the franchise does to think about getting rid of for "max value". He's not near the end of his career, so trading him would be crazy. Now, if you said trade Fred Davis for value, I'd agree with that for the right price.

[ATLredskin]

You guys are really overrating Cooley. Building a franchise around the TE or better yet a receiver? Cooley is a great TE, but he can be replaced. The team was so horrible last year that trading Cooley to get a draft pick to help build the line would have ben a great move. The only real reason people like him is because he is good yes, but he just so happen to be the cool off-field guy. Now we have him and Davis which is probably going to be the Boldin/Fitzgerald or Wayne/Harrison of TEs.

[MustangSteve]

Bang, love your cartoons and am a big fan. However, I disagree with you. Trading players to get maximum value is fine. With that said, Shanny runs an offense that values two pass catching TE's. With that said, trading CC (regardless of what a team might be offering) is not really advantageous to what Shanny would want for this offense. Albeit, it always wise to listen to offers, in this scenario it would take an astronomical offer to make Shanny think twice about trading hime.

Agree, and the fact that we have a proven probowl TE on the team is far better then hoping a draft pick will work out.

[Butch007]

I like Chris Cooley, BUT if you could get Vincent Jackson in return I would think that would be a no-brainer. The O-line looks to be improved so far if that's really the case it should be petal to to the metal time. Obviously, trading picks for Jackson (to a certain extent) would be better, but Fred Davis, Vincent Jackson and Devin Thomas with McNabb in the captain's chair? Come on, there wouldn't be a better offensive group in the league.

The thing with Cooley is that coming off an injury most teams didn't know whether the guy would be able to play. Now that that question is answered I suspect a lot more doors will open and you know Norv Turner loves CC.

[Outlaw Torn]

I honestly understand why some would want to trade him to get the max value for him but, I would be pissed if we did. I don't want this team to be like the eagles, I hate the way they treat their vets. I know, I know this isn't how we build a dynasty but if just casting aside a player like cooley who has always been there for this team no matter the win-loss record then i'm not sure if I want a dynasty.