ES Soccer Thread

[MartinC]

And what's the value of things the football press prints? The same press that had Higuain all but signed, sealed, and delivered to the Emirates, btw.

 

Doesn't really matter what Napoli paid, does it? Because there isn't a £15-25M  player out there right now that could do the same job.

good job changing what you said. stick to one point and then I will address you.

 

Just when you thought you'd heard it all .....

' ..... Torres was a better version of Darren Bent .....'

This thread is oft nothing if not entertaining.

what exactly does he do, as a footballer, differently than Darren Bent?

 

They are similar types of players, Torres is just better at it.

Bent is one dimensional. He has good pace and is excellent playing on the shoulder of the last defender and making runs behind or coming short and then turning and running at a defender. He is good in a team that's counter attacking. Bent struggles when asked to make more complex runs though, can't play with his back to goal and is not a natural finisher.

Were Torres is far superior - or was at his best - is he is far better at creating and finding space and making runs off the ball and into the penalty box without the ball. He can play with his back to goal amd his tecnique and link up play is far better than Bent. He was and is a far better finisher as well.

There is and was no comparison between Torres and Bent. That's why Torres has over 100 caps for Spain and Bent about 13 for England.

[Elessar78]

And what's the value of things the football press prints? The same press that had Higuain all but signed, sealed, and delivered to the Emirates, btw.

 

Doesn't really matter what Napoli paid, does it? Because there isn't a £15-25M  player out there right now that could do the same job.

good job changing what you said. stick to one point and then I will address you.

 

>Just when you thought you'd heard it all .....

' ..... Torres was a better version of Darren Bent .....'

This thread is oft nothing if not entertaining.

what exactly does he do, as a footballer, differently than Darren Bent?

 

They are similar types of players, Torres is just better at it.

 

You'll address me? That's rich.

 

I think I'll survive. Don't "address" me.

[JoeWolf990]

Bent is one dimensional. He has good pace and is excellent playing on the shoulder of the last defender and making runs behind or coming short and then turning and running at a defender. He is good in a team that's counter attacking. Bent struggles when asked to make more complex runs though, can't play with his back to goal and is not a natural finisher.

Were Torres is far superior - or was at his best - is he is far better at creating and finding space and making runs off the ball and into the penalty box without the ball. He can play with his back to goal amd his tecnique and link up play is far better than Bent. He was and is a far better finisher as well.

There is and was no comparison between Torres and Bent. That's why Torres has over 100 caps for Spain and Bent about 13 for England.

untrue, its why he struggles with Chelsea as lone striker. Torres is an off the shoulder striker as well. Look at his Liverpool goals, they are Torres running into space and throughballs.

 

And Torres is not that much better at finding space than Bent.

 

Torres is faster than Bent, and a slightly better finisher but they are very similar forwards. Both are off the last defender types who do not play with their back to goal.

[MartinC]

Bent is one dimensional. He has good pace and is excellent playing on the shoulder of the last defender and making runs behind or coming short and then turning and running at a defender. He is good in a team that's counter attacking. Bent struggles when asked to make more complex runs though, can't play with his back to goal and is not a natural finisher.

Were Torres is far superior - or was at his best - is he is far better at creating and finding space and making runs off the ball and into the penalty box without the ball. He can play with his back to goal amd his tecnique and link up play is far better than Bent. He was and is a far better finisher as well.

There is and was no comparison between Torres and Bent. That's why Torres has over 100 caps for Spain and Bent about 13 for England.

untrue, its why he struggles with Chelsea as lone striker. Torres is an off the shoulder striker as well. Look at his Liverpool goals, they are Torres running into space and throughballs.

 

And Torres is not that much better at finding space than Bent.

 

Torres is faster than Bent, and a slightly better finisher but they are very similar forwards. Both are off the last defender types who do not play with their back to goal.

We will have to agree to disagree about this.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

We will have to agree to disagree about this.

Having been witness live to most every goal Torres scored at Anfield those first two years, and having not enough superlatives to do him justice in print through that period .....

Can I laugh loudly whilst you're agreeing to disagree at what went before?

Hail.

[MartinC]

.....

We will have to agree to disagree about this.

Having been witness live to most every goal Torres scored at Anfield those first two years, and having not enough superlatives to do him justice in print through that period .....

Can I laugh loudly whilst you're agreeing to disagree at what went before?

Hail.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but some are more way out there than others.

For all Torres struggles with form since his move to Chelsea he scored 20 goals and had 7 assists in his 44 starts last season. All but one of those starts was playing as a lone striker normally with his back to goal. No question in my mind that's not the best way to use Torres but having watched a lot of him last year since my eldest son is a Chelsea fan there is also no question he can play in that role and play it effectively.

Meanwhile even when fit Darren Bent was struggling to make the Aston Villa starting lineup.

If Torres stays at Chelsea it will fascinating to see how they use him and how he responds to the new management.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

FWIW, being Rafa's ubber cautious, defensive want even at home; the vast majority of his games under him were as a lone striker. 

 

But I won't go into that in depth to save a history rewrite rebuttal later. 

 

Hail. 

[JoeWolf990]

Torres scored 8 goals in the premier league last year in 36 games.

 

In the premier league, he was basically a sub from January onward (after they bought Ba, who can play with his back to goal).

 

I use premier league because Torres scored a lot in Europa against weak competition.

 

Torres is not a hold the ball up and play others in type of player. He has never been that. Its not and will never be his game as he likes running in channels. (like Bent)

 

Its the big reason for his Chelsea struggles since they are reliant on that with feeding their mids who score.

 

Torres' playing style is very similiar to Bent's. I never said Bent was as good, but they play similar.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

And the woeful DCU run continues.

Hail.

[MartinC]

Torres scored 8 goals in the premier league last year in 36 games.

 

In the premier league, he was basically a sub from January onward (after they bought Ba, who can play with his back to goal).

 

I use premier league because Torres scored a lot in Europa against weak competition.

 

Torres is not a hold the ball up and play others in type of player. He has never been that. Its not and will never be his game as he likes running in channels. (like Bent)

 

Its the big reason for his Chelsea struggles since they are reliant on that with feeding their mids who score.

 

Torres' playing style is very similiar to Bent's. I never said Bent was as good, but they play similar.

Chelsea were playing 2 games a week and rotated their strikers - as you say Torres was mainly starting the mid week games which included the European games and Ba the League matches. I watched a lot of Torres as I said as my son is a Chelsea fan - he did not play as well as at his peak but he also did not play as badly as some suggest - he was effective in that lone striker role and his work rate and link of play were generally good.

I totally agree that he is at his best playing on the shoulder and running in behind, but he can come short and is also good in the box with his movement. He is under rated with his head and did a job holding it up with what I saw las year (though its not what he is best at for sure). At his best when he was at Liverpool he was baisically unplayable and his finishing was unreal. I doubt he ever gets back to that level.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Hey GHH, Elessar (and others), check out this great (and touching video - posted the rest on another thread, but thought you would appreciate it):

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/terminally-ill-feyenoord-fan-given-overwhelming-tribute-club-195330313.html

Just HOW did I miss this post?

Awesome. Absolutely, teer jerkingly awesome.

I'd advise every last one of you to click on the link, read the back story, watch the video then go look at his funeral turnout.

TOTALLY encompasses what being a match going football fan is all about and the 'family' you belong to.

Thank you so much for posting man. That's made my weekend.

UTMOST respect to the Feyenoord lads.

God rest Red Mark.

Hail.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[Old Bay]

Congrats, MartinC, on the departure of Ken Bates.

 

Blackburn is having a quiet yet solid offseason.  Kept Bowyer which was the reasonable thing to do.  Trying to balance the books which means we've lost a few guys (Murphy, Olsson, Gomes) but trying to bring in young energetic guys who will fight for the badge.  Looking at Jay Spearing and Barry Bannan.  Spearing talks seem to gone quiet now.  I've heard talks that we may lose Givet and Dann.  Givet because he's been disgruntled for a couple of years and Dann because he makes a lot of money.

 

I'd settle for a solid steady confidence building season, tbh.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Not heard any links to Jay OB but he'd be a great pick-up for you guys.

He's not quite top flight class, or at least Liverpool class; but he should have a long and prosperous career all the same Terrific engine. Real solid, hard as lil' so-and-so who loves a tackle. Good shot on him and fundamentally sound and intelligent given his Anfield upbringing.

He was Bolton's PotY last term FWIW. I'd love you to sign Spearing. It would kick start his career and you'd be getting a real solid, honest pro.

Hail.

[Old Bay]

I don't know if it'll happen at this point but he's the type of guy we really need.  I was hoping we could resign David Jones but there was talk of him going to rivals Burnley.  

[btfoom]

Hey GHH, Elessar (and others), check out this great (and touching video - posted the rest on another thread, but thought you would appreciate it):

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/terminally-ill-feyenoord-fan-given-overwhelming-tribute-club-195330313.html

Just HOW did I miss this post?

Awesome. Absolutely, teer jerkingly awesome.

I'd advise every last one of you to click on the link, read the back story, watch the video then go look at his funeral turnout.

TOTALLY encompasses what being a match going football fan is all about and the 'family' you belong to.

Thank you so much for posting man. That's made my weekend.

UTMOST respect to the Feyenoord lads.

God rest Red Mark.

Hail.

 

I thought about you when I read that the Feynoord sand "You'll Never Walk Alone" as it really embodies the meaning of that song.  Glad you enjoyed it as much as I did.  At the bottom of the story, there is a link to the Facebook page that showed his funeral march.  I don't understand one word of Dutch, but the pictures were equally awesome.

 

Also, from another blog, here is the translation of what happened when he walked to the supporter's section:

 

"The squad lined up to shake hands and

embrace the man who thought of them as heroes. He was presented with his

own shirt, before delivering a passionate speech to the players,

thumping his hand against the Feyenoord badge on his shirt. He knew he

wouldn’t be there to see it, but this didn’t stop him from wanting his

team to succeed next season. After posing for photographs and thanking

the players profusely, his friends helped him to continue the walk

towards the crowd. His movement was unsurprisingly slow, an arm on the

shoulder of those around him as he got closer and closer to the corner.

With every step, the fans roared louder.

They sung songs for Rooie and filled the sky with smoke as they set off

yet more pyro in his honour. He was almost there despite the obvious

pain he was in. “Come on Rooie, Come on Rooie!” was the chant from the

crowd. When he was around 20 yards away from the supporters who had held

up the banner with his image on, Marck shrugged off those who had been

helping him to walk, as he found the power to make the final steps by

himself.  He blew kisses to the crowd, and thumped the badge on his

heart again and again. He lead the crowd in a chant of “Feyenoord til’ I

die” and bowed to the fans to show his gratitude for the amazing

support they had given him.

They responded by singing “You’ll Never Walk Alone” once more."  (http://supportersnotcustomers.com/2013/07/27/rooie-marck-a-special-moment-at-feyenoord/)

Edited July 29, 2013 by btfoom

[MartinC]

Congrats, MartinC, on the departure of Ken Bates.

 

Blackburn is having a quiet yet solid offseason.  Kept Bowyer which was the reasonable thing to do.  Trying to balance the books which means we've lost a few guys (Murphy, Olsson, Gomes) but trying to bring in young energetic guys who will fight for the badge.  Looking at Jay Spearing and Barry Bannan.  Spearing talks seem to gone quiet now.  I've heard talks that we may lose Givet and Dann.  Givet because he's been disgruntled for a couple of years and Dann because he makes a lot of money.

 

I'd settle for a solid steady confidence building season, tbh.

 

Many thanks - Bates going is about the best news to have come out of Elland Road for quiet a long time. He did an interview on a Leeds radio station yesterday in which he blasted the current owners for not investing in the squad or having the clubs best interests at heart - we now have a new model example of irony in action ....

 

As for Blackburn I think its going to be a tough year for you again and as you say if you can finish mid table and get things stabilised that will be a good season. I think thats the kind of year Leeds will have as well but maybe just outside the playoff spots. We don't have enough quality to really challenge for promotion IMO and like most Championship clubs a couple of key injuries will make things really tough.

 

Having said that the Championship is an unpredictable league so pretty much anything can happen! 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Bales asked to be officially allowed to speak to Madrid.

This muddles up the Suarez situation somewhat if Raal break the World record on the Welshman.

Arsene, nows the time to spend BIG!

Hail.

[Elessar78]

Explain something to me. Why do Bale and Suarez sign new contracts in years they know they want to move on (potentially)?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Well from a clubs POV it safeguards them and increases any potential transfer fee. As well putting the selling club in pole position.

From the players, pure greed. Nice fat signing on fee and increased contract. Nice fat signing on fee and increased contract from their next club.

Contracts in football really aren't worth the paper their written on today.

And the vast majority of today's players wouldn't know loyalty if it jumped up and bit them on the ass.

Hail.

[Elessar78]

The current club loses nothing, but the player, literally, signs away his ability to move. I can understand if you're a player like Aaron Lennon. But if you're Bale then you're probably not too worried about a "lighter" new contract.

 

Does it have to do with getting a percentage of the transfer fee? Obviously, if you leave on a free then you're not going to have that percentage?

[JoeWolf990]

Explain something to me. Why do Bale and Suarez sign new contracts in years they know they want to move on (potentially)?

pay raises are always good, tbf

Bales asked to be officially allowed to speak to Madrid.

This muddles up the Suarez situation somewhat if Raal break the World record on the Welshman.

Arsene, nows the time to spend BIG!

Hail.

Madrid been targeting Bale since last year. I told you all they were never interested in Suarez.

 

Pepe Reina hung out Liverpool's management too.

 

 

 

 

also, RIP Chucho Benitez

[Elessar78]

I thought you weren't addressing me?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Madrid have said they want Suarez but can't afford both so it's dependent on Bale. If they don't land Bale they'll come in hard for Suarez.

But you keep telling folk what you (don't) know Joe.

Hail.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[RichmondRedskin88]

Btw I didn't see it mentioned but seeing Dortmund take out Bayern for the Super Cup at least gives them a warning shot.

[MartinC]

Explain something to me. Why do Bale and Suarez sign new contracts in years they know they want to move on (potentially)?

 

A player under a long term contract is worth more than a player coming to the end of his contract (assuming he is any good of course). When players move they typically make sure they are not seen to have instigated the move and so get a percentage of the selling fee as of course does the good old agent. The higher the transfer fee the higher the slice they and their agent walk away with.