prisonplanet.com: obama-can-shut-down-internet-for-4-months-under-new-emergency-powers.html

[Springfield]

I wish the op didn't post a link from prisonplanet, but this is a legit story. Only a partisan democrat can defend Obama now. He is WORSE on civil liberties than Bush.

Not defending Obama but spying on US citizens in the name of patriotism is pretty ****ing bad.

[Springfield]

Not secure it...Shut down access(which is controlled at certain choke points and easily doable)

Certain choke points? Easily doable?

If they cut off one choke point aren't there dozens around that?

[Bang]

I know you're being sarcastic but do you really think our precious internet would be in the best possible hands if the US government had oversight?

I didn't see anything in there about government oversight unless in case of a dire emergency.

I think the fear that the almighty evil government is going to immediately clamp down in Soviet-esque oppression is WAY overblown. We imagine everything to the nth possible worst scenario that could be and we decide that the fear of potentially allowing the absolute worst case scenario overrides any potential benefit of the idea.

The federal government has the ability to clamp down on MANY things in the event of a national emergency, and the last time I recall anything like this happening was 9-11 when the FAA cleared the skies for two days.

In terms of choking free speech and clamping down on internet freedom,, seriously,, if the **** REALLY hit the fan is your email that important? If someone manages to compromise our tacticl networks and starts launching missiles, the last thing you're going to want to do is get online to twitter to your friends about what the end of the world is like.

If we look at the worst case played out, Iran tried to clamp down on the protests. The internet still functioned and let the world know what was going on. And that only becomes a reality if we assume our government would be as opressive as the Iranian regime.

And no matter how much we like to think our freedoms are being stepped on or how many arguments we get in over the right and left of things, in no way does the US government resemble an oppressive regime.

We seem to think that our government is an entity outside of the ideal of the United States. It's not, no matter how many times we try to convince ourselves it is. In cases of extreme emergency a little faith in ourselves is required. That was the point of my sarcasm. We already trust them (us) with the ability to kill the entire planet dozens of times over.

Besides,, as I know it, the internet was designed with military capability in mind, that no mater how damaged the network is, it can always route packets of data around.. thereby creating no choke points or places to disrupt the entire network.

~Bang

[twa]

Certain choke points? Easily doable?

If they cut off one choke point aren't there dozens around that?

You don't see choke points there?

Dozens are a cakewalk.

[Springfield]

I didn't see anything in there about government oversight unless in case of a dire emergency.

I think the fear that the almighty evil government is going to immediately clamp down in Soviet-esque oppression is WAY overblown. We imagine everything to the nth possible worst scenario that could be and we decide that the fear of potentially allowing the absolute worst case scenario overrides any potential benefit of the idea.

The federal government has the ability to clamp down on MANY things in the event of a national emergency, and the last time I recall anything like this happening was 9-11 when the FAA cleared the skies for two days.

In terms of choking free speech and clamping down on internet freedom,, seriously,, if the **** REALLY hit the fan is your email that important? If someone manages to compromise our tacticl networks and starts launching missiles, the last thing you're going to want to do is get online to twitter to your friends about what the end of the world is like.

If we look at the worst case played out, Iran tried to clamp down on the protests. The internet still functioned and let the world know what was going on. And that only becomes a reality if we assume our government would be as opressive as the Iranian regime.

And no matter how much we like to think our freedoms are being stepped on or how many arguments we get in over the right and left of things, in no way does the US government resemble an oppressive regime.

We seem to think that our government is an entity outside of the ideal of the United States. It's not, no matter how many times we try to convince ourselves it is. In cases of extreme emergency a little faith in ourselves is required. That was the point of my sarcasm. We already trust them (us) with the ability to kill the entire planet dozens of times over.

Besides,, as I know it, the internet was designed with military capability in mind, that no mater how damaged the network is, it can always route packets of data around.. thereby creating no choke points or places to disrupt the entire network.

~Bang

I'm not really worried about any oppression in the short term. Much like the Patriot Act, I'm worried about the long term implications of giving government the power to shut down the internet. Once Americans accept that they can shut down the internet, they'd be more likely to accept that the government can make sites illegal, ip's illegal, all in the name of safety. That's what I'm really worried about.

One excerpt that gets me:

The federal government has the ability to clamp down on MANY things in the event of a national emergency, and the last time I recall anything like this happening was 9-11 when the FAA cleared the skies for two days.

Much like 9-11, if there was some large scale attack on institutions in the US, the damage would already be done before we could pull the plug. Heaven forbid something to that effect happens, I just don't think there is much we'd be able to do to stop it.

Sure, we can pull the plug on the internet. As it stands right now, it would likely be too little too late.

And no, I'm not worried about my emails. I'd probably organize an army if I couldn't log on to ES though.

You don't see choke points there?

Dozens are a cakewalk.

Besides,, as I know it, the internet was designed with military capability in mind, that no mater how damaged the network is, it can always route packets of data around.. thereby creating no choke points or places to disrupt the entire network.

I'm with Bang on this. Also, what if a large scale attack comes from within our boarders? We'd be screwed.

[stickyshooZ]

I don't know why people act like PrisonPlanet isn't reliable. They link to several sources confirming their stories. They bring attention to many stories and issues that mainstream media will never cover.

If you haven't read the Cyber Security Act in the PDF, you should probably do that. If you aren't pissed about what is contained in that bill, you probably aren't paying attention.

[stickyshooZ]

Not defending Obama but spying on US citizens in the name of patriotism is pretty ****ing bad.

It not only allows the govt. to spy on you, but it allows the govt. to regulate what you can and can't look at. It's all IN THE BILL.

[War Paint]

I don't know why people act like PrisonPlanet isn't reliable. They link to several sources confirming their stories. They bring attention to many stories and issues that mainstream media will never cover.

If you haven't read the Cyber Security Act in the PDF, you should probably do that. If you aren't pissed about what is contained in that bill, you probably aren't paying attention.

True. I've seen Infowars and Prisonplanet talk about topics way before the mainstream media picks it up. I remember Alex Jones talking about Cap and Trade months before Fox News and CNN started talking about it. He also has talked about this internet take over a long time ago. Alex usually has the bill or documents in front of him when he's talking about something, and he shows you a close up shot of the paragraph he's talking about. It's not like he's making stuff up.

It seems like when I watch CNN or Fox News, they cover stories that I go "I heard Alex talk about this months ago". I guess some people like their news straight from the establishment.

[Sandman69]

ecPeSmF_ikc

[Fergasun]

Slashdot was reporting on this last week.

As it is, I believe someone pointed out that the President already had the power to kill the Internet if he wanted to under some 1941 communications law.

[Springfield]

ecPeSmF_ikc

Blocked by Obama.

[stickyshooZ]

True. I've seen Infowars and Prisonplanet talk about topics way before the mainstream media picks it up. I remember Alex Jones talking about Cap and Trade months before Fox News and CNN started talking about it. He also has talked about this internet take over a long time ago. Alex usually has the bill or documents in front of him when he's talking about something, and he shows you a close up shot of the paragraph he's talking about. It's not like he's making stuff up.

It seems like when I watch CNN or Fox News, they cover stories that I go "I heard Alex talk about this months ago". I guess some people like their news straight from the establishment.

You're absolutely right. And he tends to go into detail with the legislation and with what he's talking about, so you're not getting just a 60 second blurb that offers no real insight. And it's not just Alex Jones saying this about Cyber Security, it's been in several mainstream articles.

BTW, I've been calling and e-mailing Cardin and Mikulski about this every day for at least a week now (among other things). Come on people, get involved. You don't have to make a perfect statement or some grand essay of an e-mail, just get involved at some level.

[PokerPacker]

Anonymous is gonna be pissed. Watch out, Obama, you're about to get the Scientology treatment!

[Thiebear]

Question for those that think its a Good idea:

What would the average company do if the internet was shut down for 10-120 days?

a. Wait it out and be okay?

b. lay off employees and hope for the best?

c. Lose everything

From Technews:

The bill also would allow the US president to take emergency actions to protect critical parts of the Internet, including ordering owners of critical infrastructure to implement emergency response plans, during a cyber-emergency. The president would need congressional approval to extend a national cyber-emergency beyond 120 days under an amendment to the legislation approved by the committee.

The legislation would give the US Department of Homeland Security authority that it does not now have to respond to cyber-attacks, Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, said earlier this month.

"Our responsibility for cyber defence goes well beyond the public sector because so much of cyberspace is owned and operated by the private sector," he said. "The Department of Homeland Security has actually shown that vulnerabilities in key private sector networks like utilities and communications could bring our economy down for a period of time if attacked or commandeered by a foreign power or cyber terrorists."

[Burgold]

Question for those that think its a Good idea:

What would the average company do if the internet was shut down for 10-120 days?

a. Wait it out and be okay?

b. lay off employees and hope for the best?

c. Lose everything

From Technews:

What would a company do if it lost all its resources and capital and had no way to recover it? What would said company do if it lost all its designs and every file on its computers and servers were entirely erased?

And every attempt at a cure was summarily re-attacked.

a. Wait it out and be okay?

b. lay off employees and hope for the best?

c. Lose everything

What should happen if a well armed group of thugs break into a bank and hold staff and customers hostage?

a. Wait it out and be okay?

b. lay off employees and hope for the best?

c. Lose everything

'cause clearly the government has no role in protecting its citizens or businesses.

[Bang]

Question for those that think its a Good idea:

What would the average company do if the internet was shut down for 10-120 days?

a. Wait it out and be okay?

b. lay off employees and hope for the best?

c. Lose everything

From Technews:

Well, I think it entirely depends. If a situation was so bad that they felt it necessary to shut down the net, i don't think their business is going to be the first thing on their minds.

It's as if y'all think the shutting down would be done on just a normal business day under normal circumstances. This isn't something that would be done lightly and on a whim. If and when such a thing occurs, I would expect that all hell would be breaking loose, which would render your questions moot.

I mean really, In such an emergency, the military and the government has the power to shut down roads... why is there no complaints there? How would we get to work? What about that egg timer I bought on Ebay,, how will it be delivered? What about my mortgage payment,, I sent it out in the mail and traffic can't get through. What about having to take someone to the hospital?

We already trust them with so much when it comes to severe emergencies. I think rampant over-paranoia and fear over a boogieman the media creates and re-creates has really gotten out of hand. Our greatest strengths have been played into our greatest weakness. We're paralyzed by fear of ourselves.

~Bang

[Ax]

If we're under attack, in any way, shape, or form, I expect the government to shut down whatever the hell is necessary to thwart the attack. Including the precious internet.

I don't think much of our current administration. Hope to hell they're gone in 2012. But I have no problem with them, or the next, or the next, having any and every tool available to them, to protect the country and it's citizens.

If it weren't in their best interest, to protect us at all costs, I'd be worried. But, it is, and it always will be. If someone abuses the power, they'll pay a hefty price.

I'm much more concerned about being forced to buy something I don't want, or, feel I need to. But that's another Geraldo.

[twa]

We already trust them with so much when it comes to severe emergencies. I think rampant over-paranoia and fear over a boogieman the media creates and re-creates has really gotten out of hand. Our greatest strengths have been played into our greatest weakness. We're paralyzed by fear of ourselves.

~Bang

Agreed...besides the companies effected always have access to the court system.

A judge could rule against then and issue a stay....sure hope he doesn't own any tech stock though:silly:

[Kosher Ham]

Annoying, yes.

But if needed, sure.

[Thiebear]

What would a company do if it lost all its resources and capital and had no way to recover it? What would said company do if it lost all its designs and every file on its computers and servers were entirely erased?

And every attempt at a cure was summarily re-attacked.

What should happen if a well armed group of thugs break into a bank and hold staff and customers hostage?

'cause clearly the government has no role in protecting its citizens or businesses.

The Federal Gov't sole job is to protect us against foreign invaders to stop them from disrupting Electirical or Satellite etc.

I'm just pointing out that most companies that lose internet will cease to exist after 5 days: After 20 days its over: After 4 months business models will change to stop using the internet as it was in 1992.

A single company losing all its data or being robbed by "thugs" is a drop of water in the Mississippi.

Shutting down the Internet would be CHAOS!

Amazon, AOL, Ebay, Google, online gaming companies fail immediately. Twitter, yahoo, facebook, Magicjack and other phone systems. Brick and Mortar stores back in style .

tracking of goods and services stopped. Fedex/UPS

Routing and banking stopped, Online transactions you pay monthly (checkbook time)

Companies that have india IT support ends... 5000 of them in my current company.

The 113million images of houses i maintain are no longer viewable: 70% of the realestate market is now

drive around and look for a broker. Use the yellow pages.

How many car companies rely on the internet?

Airline tickets are now bought onsite?

Not saying they can't do it to protect us: But that protection comes with a cost (and its big)

-------------------

There are several Gov't programs i'm sure are all over this:

There are ways to stop access from other countries and would suspect that would be implemented first.

Then all internal traffic to the United States from the outside:

Then probably stopping all access from the offending ISP within

Then it get a bit crazy if internal bots are all over because people don't keep their systems up to date.

[War Paint]

I think rampant over-paranoia and fear over a boogieman the media creates and re-creates has really gotten out of hand. Our greatest strengths have been played into our greatest weakness. We're paralyzed by fear of ourselves.

~Bang

Actually, I don't see those showing concern about our corrupt government as paranoid or fearful. I see those who are in denial about the corruption as being the real cowards.

[Kosher Ham]

Besides the internet based companies, most places have back-up, old school procedures, in case. Especially after the Y2K stupidness.

[Bang]

Actually, I don't see those showing concern about our corrupt government as paranoid or fearful. I see those who are in denial about the corruption as being the real cowards.

No one said they weren't corrupt, but even through all of their faults by and large they DO put the nation's best interests at heart during the kind of emergencies we're talking about.

This isn't some everyday occurance that is being discussed. The types of catastrophe that would cause such a shutdown would be akin to an act of war.

But I guess you're right.. while our enemies solidify and continually work to undermine us we should just help them along by being too afraid to act in our own self interest. the lack of trust fermented by the media propagandists have effectively polarized and by rote paralyzed us. We'd rather allow our enemies free reign on a cyber-battlefield while we worry too much over whether or not our own commanders will destroy us and keep us from our facebook pages.

I'm pretty sure someone here either knows or can find the data on how many cyber-attacks we repulse and investigate each day from foreign entities. In the face of this some safeguards must be in place. If not, well, who knows what the enemies of this country can disrupt?

Here's a prediction: If the president is given this power, you'll never ever even notice it. It will not affect your life one single iota. You will not lose a single email as a result of it and all of your Farmville crops will get watered on time... unless something disastrous happens

Stop buying into the constant barrage of fear.

~Bang

[ECU-ALUM]

There have been reports/rumors/whispers of the Illuminati/New World Order for decades. I like to believe that if there was an Illuminati/New World Order ready to elimante 1/3 of the world's populaiton or trying to mind control us all they would've done it by now and we would be living under a One World Government.

Does that mean that I believe that all Governments are operating on the up & up and not doing things behind our backs or under the table...hey I may be a cynic but I'm not stupid.

[War Paint]

No one said they weren't corrupt, but even through all of their faults by and large they DO put the nation's best interests at heart during the kind of emergencies we're talking about.

This isn't some everyday occurance that is being discussed. The types of catastrophe that would cause such a shutdown would be akin to an act of war.

But I guess you're right.. while our enemies solidify and continually work to undermine us we should just help them along by being too afraid to act in our own self interest. the lack of trust fermented by the media propagandists have effectively polarized and by rote paralyzed us. We'd rather allow our enemies free reign on a cyber-battlefield while we worry too much over whether or not our own commanders will destroy us and keep us from our facebook pages.

I'm pretty sure someone here either knows or can find the data on how many cyber-attacks we repulse and investigate each day from foreign entities. In the face of this some safeguards must be in place. If not, well, who knows what the enemies of this country can disrupt?

Here's a prediction: If the president is given this power, you'll never ever even notice it. It will not affect your life one single iota. You will not lose a single email as a result of it and all of your Farmville crops will get watered on time... unless something disastrous happens

Stop buying into the constant barrage of fear.

~Bang

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe tyrants would try to take over the US? Thomas Jefferson said we would have to defend freedom against tyrants every twenty years.

Are you familiar with Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, and the Reichstag Fire?

Let me ask you this. If there was a true "cyber attack" that gave the government complete control of the internet, who do you think would be behind it? Would it be Bin Laden, the boogie man? Would it be China, the country that makes most of our products and owns our debt? Russia? If there was a cyber attack, how would you know if it wasn't a false flag?

People need to realize that our country has been hijacked by elite bankers and Wall Street. The finance bill pretty much gives the Federal Reserve more power. Heck, most people probably think the Federal Reserve is part of the government. They probably have no clue that it's a private bank.