Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[SWFLSkins]

"If they keep this system the way it is, then they would label Albert Haynesworth a bust who didn't live up to the contract," Haynesworth said. "Everybody would say he just took the money and ran off. And I'm still playing as hard as I possibly can. But you can only do so much within the system that's put around you."

12/26/2009 01:00:00 AM MST

_____________________________________This was in the 4-3, not the 3-4

I think your right Ryman, close thread, game over.

[grego]

swfl, i would think that would be the death nail in als coffin. but i've thought that before in this thread.

i just dont know how i could come to the conclusion that he's anything but a lazy, opportunistic malcontent who's all about the $, rather than actually winning games.

this 3/4 - 4/3 thing thats been debated to death is a farce. dude hated the system last year. hates it this year. its all about the cash, and how little the man can do and still get paid. nothing more to see.

brianm23, i am taking your advice. you are spot on on this one.

[Ryman of the North]

the 4-3 we ran last season was not aggresive, it required the 3 tech and the base end to play run first and stay in designated lanes, Albert still did pretty well but not anywhere near as well as he does when he is turned loose. the 3-4 supporters will tell you, we didnt force enough turnovers and we were predictable in the extreme. you wonder why a free wheeling player would dislike that?

[onedrop]

the 4-3 we ran last season was not aggresive, it required the 3 tech and the base end to play run first and stay in designated lanes, Albert still did pretty well but not anywhere near as well as he does when he is turned loose. the 3-4 supporters will tell you, we didnt force enough turnovers and we were predictable in the extreme. you wonder why a free wheeling player would dislike that?

Blah x 3. From infant to grave as a football player you do ONE thing, what your coach tells you. PERIOD. the moment a player breaks this command he has troubles. Now, some of this was brought on by Snyder's "open door policy" but that era of pay me and ill still do what I want ended when a real coach came to town. As someone that still plays the game I would expect you to understand the hierarchy. Its Shannys club to run so get with the program or get to stepping. It ain't that freaking hard to figure out.

The inmates r no longer running the asylum. Even Portis has figured this out, why can't you?

[Ryman of the North]

It depends, I have told a coach to pound sand before, and at the time I was good enough to get away with it.

[adamyesme1111]

It depends, I have told a coach to pound sand before, and at the time I was good enough to get away with it.

I am actually getting into the coaching profession, and just because your coach was a tool doesnt mean anything. I would have cut you so fast even if you ran a damn 4.3 40.

[skinnyfan57]

It depends, I have told a coach to pound sand before, and at the time I was good enough to get away with it.

Was this supposed to help support your position in this debate? You've made a serious miscalculation. Telling us that you are iniquitous and feel that having talent covers for your sins doesn't do much to strengthen your argument.

[onedrop]

It depends, I have told a coach to pound sand before, and at the time I was good enough to get away with it.

That's the same attitude that causes the problem. I don't doubt your skills. The problem was that you doubted your coaches. On the NFL level its all or nothing. Even under zorn if the better had bought in we would have won at least one more game. Now I can understand why they didn't, ineptitude is obvious. However that is most certainly NOT the case this year so everyone else is falling inline. Except for the one ass that can't grasp the team concept. Because for one reason or another he made it thru a career that lasted longer than all of ours without developing a team identity organ. The current team, the lifelong fans and most of all the name WASHINGTON REDSKINS deserve better.

[skinnyfan57]

I would have cut you so fast even if you ran a damn 4.3 40.

Whether or not that's the right course of action depends on what level you're coaching.

[slaga]

and it was all about scheme, haynesworth has made no bones about disliking the 3-4, and he was flat out told that he shouldnt collect 21 million that HE WAS ENTITLED TO ACCORDING TO THE CONTRACT HE SIGNED AND THAT THE SKINS RENEGOTIATED TO MAKE THAT WAY in order for him to be traded he probably figured screw them, thats my money.

That contract you are referring to never excluded a 3-4 defense. It was for Al to play whatever defense the Redskins are using. Management has every right to expect Al to play in a 3-4 defense if that is what they want to run. If Al has an aversion to playing in the 3-4 defense, he should have written it into the contract, like many players do about playing special teams.

:beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse:

[HailGreen28]

"If they keep this system the way it is, then they would label Albert Haynesworth a bust who didn't live up to the contract," Haynesworth said. "Everybody would say he just took the money and ran off. And I'm still playing as hard as I possibly can. But you can only do so much within the system that's put around you."

12/26/2009 01:00:00 AM MST

_____________________________________This was in the 4-3, not the 3-4

I think your right Ryman, close thread, game over.

Is my sarcasm meter offline, or have you complimented Ryman while refuting Ryman's issue of the 3-4 being a problem? That Haynesworthless hated our 4-3 too.

And thanks for providing yet another example of Hayneworthless saying one thing (he was just going to play hard and not "take the money and run"), and then proving it a lie. He was just waiting for that 21 mil.

edit:apologies if the sarcasm flew over my head.

[WinSkins]

Please close this sycophantic thread :doh:

:beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse:

[DexterSackMachine]

He was just waiting for that 21 mil.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

It's nothing more glamorous than this. Look at his dealings with people off the field, he's a bad guy who wanted his check so he lied until he got it because he knew the onus would then be on the Redskins to try and get money back when he violated his contract. If he had told then that he wasn't coming, then they would have withheld the check and he would have has to sue them to get it, or part of it.

Guys a jerk, and I can't believe that any Redskin fan defends him.

[RandyHolt]

What is it about the skins, and our tendency to bring in a stud DT, coupled with a defensive coordinator that promises to "be aggressive, attack the QB, force turnovers", and it be a failure time and time again? Stubby, Big Daddy, Gilbert, Fat Al; I suspect there are more.

Big Al just fell into a similar pattern of many before him, not being used to maximize what they bring to the table. These studs come here and are forced to play in a read react and get runover defensive system.

Sure, Al used Dan to the tune of 21M, but is that his fault? Would you, if you could?

[SWFLSkins]

Is my sarcasm meter offline, or have you complimented Ryman while refuting Ryman's issue of the 3-4 being a problem? That Haynesworthless hated our 4-3 too.

And thanks for providing yet another example of Hayneworthless saying one thing (he was just going to play hard and not "take the money and run"), and then proving it a lie. He was just waiting for that 21 mil.

edit:apologies if the sarcasm flew over my head.

NO problem Hail, yes I was referencing an earlier post that Ryman requested that the thread be closed becasue every point had been made already.

My post with Haynesworth's comments clearly showed he was not happy last year in the 4-3. Now Ryman wants to carry that further stating that the 4-3 they were running did not cater to his specific talent.

So how far do we go with this overpaid a**hat? Only bring him in when he gives the high sign? Only bring him in when the Redskins are ahead and the other team is in pass mode so he can look good? Let him design the defense? Let him have his own locker-room?

Don't do what the coach tells ya, bye bye donkey. :beatdeadhorse:

[Hitman21ST]

What is it about the skins, and our tendency to bring in a stud DT, coupled with a defensive coordinator that promises to "be aggressive, attack the QB, force turnovers", and it be a failure time and time again? Stubby, Big Daddy, Gilbert, Fat Al; I suspect there are more.

When did Sherman promis to be aggressive? His defense was about the least aggressive defense in the history of defenses. We got sacks because we had an otherworldly d-line. Our corners played a soft zone 10 yards off the ball and safeties played 20 or more. We hardly ever rushed with our linebackers either.

The only d-coord I can remember who promised that was Gregg Williams, who was long gone before AH came in.

[SWFLSkins]

It depends, I have told a coach to pound sand before, and at the time I was good enough to get away with it.

Apparently the coach wasn't good enough.

By taking this course of action with AH, the Redskins are clearly sailing a course. The Captain is in control now, man your station.

[SWFLSkins]

When did Sherman promis to be aggressive? His defense was about the least aggressive defense in the history of defenses. We got sacks because we had an otherworldly d-line. Our corners played a soft zone 10 yards off the ball and safeties played 20 or more. We hardly ever rushed with our linebackers either.

The only d-coord I can remember who promised that was Gregg Williams, who was long gone before AH came in.

And you also had the "Prevent everything but losing defense" of Mike Nolan.

[Ryman of the North]

That contract you are referring to never excluded a 3-4 defense. It was for Al to play whatever defense the Redskins are using. Management has every right to expect Al to play in a 3-4 defense if that is what they want to run. If Al has an aversion to playing in the 3-4 defense, he should have written it into the contract, like many players do about playing special teams.

:beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse:

I completely agree, thats on Albert, he was foolish enough to take the Danny at his word when signing the contract, just like they were when they frontloaded it to avoid the cap (are you starting to see a pattern here?)

[Ryman of the North]

I am actually getting into the coaching profession, and just because your coach was a tool doesnt mean anything. I would have cut you so fast even if you ran a damn 4.3 40.

That was in 1999,The Coach was a moron who didnt even know what an outside linebacker was (no joke he called them corner linebackers and MAC was called a plug linebacker WTF) on top of that he wanted to run a 5-3 in a semipro league that actually passes. He was hired by the team owner because they met and made buddies at a coaching clinic and he had been a head coach at the peewee level (7-10 year olds)

he kept trying to get me to play Middle linebacker at 300 pounds and I finally told him that if he wanted to win games he should shut his yap and just let me do my thing. In my case my teammates agreed because we had been succsessful, we went back to running a base 4-3 and I led the league in TFL's and was second in tackles playing end.

so in your logic you would have cut the best defencive player in the league and pretty much the only elite player on your team capable of elevating an otherwise mediocre team.

btw I dont feel Haynesworth is entirely in the right here,i thought I was more than clear, He screwed up by not just saying " no I will not play nose tackle PERIOD no matter who much money you pay me" BUT THEN JUDGING BY THE MOB HE WOULD HAVE BEEN PILLORIED ANYWAY.

[Ryman of the North]

Apparently the coach wasn't good enough.

By taking this course of action with AH, the Redskins are clearly sailing a course. The Captain is in control now, man your station.

No he wasnt if he had been I never would have stepped up in his face.

Im ok with that my fervent hope is that Shannahan doesnt screw everything up.

[slaga]

I completely agree, thats on Albert, he was foolish enough to take the Danny at his word when signing the contract, just like they were when they frontloaded it to avoid the cap (are you starting to see a pattern here?)

Why would Albert take Danny's word for anything except "I will pay you $$$$ to play in DC". What would give Albert any idea that Danny's football accuemen was strong enough to actually use him correctly? The only people that Albert should have been listening to were the GM and the DC, and it is known that Blache did not really want Albert. What would make Albert think he would be used any different than any other tackle on the roster (like the jason Taylor fiasco where a pass rushing RDE was forced to play run stopper at the LDE)? Nothing in the previous regime would indicate the coaches were the least bit flexible with their system or aggressive with their tackles. Albert knew it before he ever signed his contract. Actions speak much louder than words.

[MartinC]

Im ok with that my fervent hope is that Shannahan doesnt screw everything up.

His record as a coach is such that it would be unlikely that he screws everything up. However his record on the personnel side also suggests its unlikely he makes us a truly elite team. He certainly appears to building to win now as opposed to rebuilding with a view to the long term.

[Ryman of the North]

Why would Albert take Danny's word for anything except "I will pay you $$$$ to play in DC". What would give Albert any idea that Danny's football accuemen was strong enough to actually use him correctly? The only people that Albert should have been listening to were the GM and the DC, and it is known that Blache did not really want Albert. What would make Albert think he would be used any different than any other tackle on the roster (like the jason Taylor fiasco where a pass rushing RDE was forced to play run stopper at the LDE)? Nothing in the previous regime would indicate the coaches were the least bit flexible with their system or aggressive with their tackles. Albert knew it before he ever signed his contract. Actions speak much louder than words.

because history showed the Danny is a hands on owner and frankly he is a convincing guy. you are absolutely correct actions speak far louder than words and giving someone 100million suggests they are going to build around you, you dont pay 100mill for a pylon.

[DexterSackMachine]

Sure, Al used Dan to the tune of 21M, but is that his fault? Would you, if you could?

Easy answer, no! I sign a contract to work for a company for a certain number of years, I'm honoring it. Would I get as much money as I could? Of course! But I would never say (after I got the bulk of the money) that I no longer feel the need to honor my deal because my computer company switched from Windows to Mac.