Burgold Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Buffalo had terrible QBs though. That's a difference that stands out to me. You guys may be right, Buffalo had terrible qbs and a terrible line. We have a good qb in a familiar but no system with a line that is pretty darn questionable. I'd still rather use this year as a year to measure what we have and live with the growing pains than to sign another mercenary that may add a win or two, but not much else. Would T.O. be a good mentor... I'm not sure. I'm not sure that watching him in practice or in the game will give them that much more than what McCardell could offer. By rep, he doesn't seem like the kinda player that would put his arm around a youngster and give him tips and mentor him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 If he wasn't so much of a cancer in Dallass, the pukes would have kept him. Hell, the eagles and niners would have kept him.One good year in Buffalo, like the first year wherever he goes. You raise good points about his performance, but he's old. Kiss of death for a position that relies on speed. We'd be a lot better off trying to develop youth, rather than a questionable quick fix. Give the coaches' attention, practice reps, and playing time to someone else. Someone not proven to be a head-case, to someone that could be with us for a long time. He may be in the twilight of his career, or to put it plainly... old, but he is still better then ANY WR on our current roster. For his age he is in INCREDIBLE shape, and has a limited injury history, and is still better then any WR on our current roster. For an old reciever, he still commands a double team at times (something neither DT or MK could command with a bullhorn and a whip) and that creates opportunities on the field for other WRs T.O.s monster contract and the log jam of talent at WR (Austin, Crayton, Sam Hurd, Roy Williams) had more to do with T.O. leaving Dallas then his play. T.O. was the fall guy in Dallas and the option in his contract made him expendable. T.O. on the team doesn't mean less chance for the young guns, if aanything it means more opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 And that suspension hanging over Moss's head is more plausible reason then the OTA performance of both Thomas and Kelly. Actually, the knee surgery that Moss had is a more valid reason than a potential suspension, considering that Shanahan doesn't seem to be all that worried about that. But, the fact that he wasn't practicing probably is more of a factor for those guys to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Me-O undoubtedly WAS a locker-room cancer in Dallass, Philly, and San Fran. He's demonstrated that he's capable of getting along in the first year he's with a team. After that: cancer.On paper he'd be a great asset. But nobody's picking him up because he's an ass. ...and he's expensive. And he'd likely demand that he should be the #1 WR, whether he deserves to be or not. Things have been pretty consistent for TO over his career. Thinking it would be different now is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Age and the cold bluntness of not being covetted can soften someones stance and expectations. He may want to just be part of a winner and help himself and his team get back to the post season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johns Bass Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 TO...If he waits till the season (or possibly preseason) starts and waits for team X to get desperate because either their WRs start getting injured or prove not so good... ...he gets to sign for at least what anyone one is offering him now, does not have to put up with the media (at least until then), does not have to risk an injury prior to the season, and gets welcomed with open arms... ...or, well...pretty much the opposite. I think that somewhere early in the season someone will be forced to make that phone call. What if all 32 teams stay healthy and productive at WR? Well, I do not think he will exactly be in a bread line soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polo3 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 You raise good points about his performance, but he's old. Kiss of death for a position that relies on speed. We'd be a lot better off trying to develop youth, rather than a questionable quick fix. Give the coaches' attention, practice reps, and playing time to someone else. Someone not proven to be a head-case, to someone that could be with us for a long time. I think Jerry Rice would disagree with you on this point about being old..:whoknows: just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polo3 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Age and the cold bluntness of not being covetted can soften someones stance and expectations. He may want to just be part of a winner and help himself and his team get back to the post season. Perfect response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 In comes the "Not on my team" crowd. But I agree with you. Apparently the "not on my team" crowd at the moment includes all 32 GMs lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 If Kelly and Thomas aren't delivering on what is supposedly expected of 3rd-year WRs -- I'd hope that folks would be focusing less of the blame on Zorn and more on Stan Hixon (former WR's coach). Hixon was a terrible WR coach and I recall posting after the 2008 draft how I was concerned for the rookie WR's career fate under Hixon's 'training.' Couple that with a fairly green QB with issues of his own, and you didn't have the best developmental environment for these new WRs. Still, each possess decent talent and --if they can stay healthy-- will log enough time in the new system to showcase their talents. Both are tall enough targets and provide McNabb with a variety of receiving options. The only question is how well this latest WR coach will do in training Kelly and Thomas into the new system. I suspect he's having to re-train in some cases -- because Hixon may have allowed the WRs to develop some sloppy habits and lack of precision in route-running. At this point, a disciplinarian approach may be needed -- to develop more attention to detail, and to demand more of these 'semi-rookies.' It will be great to see how things come together in training camp. I'm not going to worry much about the OTAs -- let's see how they are doing by the 2nd week in the pre-season. I'm not going to allow the media create anxiety with these cheesy 'unnamed sources' material. Let's give this some time. As for TO -- I can't see him being brought in here to challenge McNabb or to disrupt the team chemistry/discipline and team order that Shanahan is trying cultivate. Maybe TO could convince everyone that he's willing to mend fences, and be an example of the consumate team player -- but currently, I'm not convinced he could do that for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Ill give you philly and san-fran. he was young and full of himself. I saw him defending his QB in Dallas, and I still think the media made him out to be more of a cancer then he really was. I think he contributed to Dallas' success more then anyone else on the team when he was with Dallas. They lost because Romo sits to pee cannot deliver in clutch situations. T.O. was the only reason Philly was even competitivein the Superbowl, and he was playing on a broken leg.... came back early just to play and still scored a TD. More than a few players in Dallas would disagree with you lol..not to mention that the Cowboys actually went further once they jettisoned T.O., which is what all the "addition by subtraction" comments alluded to. In Buffalo you didn't hear a word out of him and he still put up respectable numbers on a crappy team. Owens, Santana Moss and Devin Thomas played on crappy teams last year. Number of 100 yard games: Owens: 1 Moss: 1 Thomas: 1 Number of multi-TD games: Owens: 0 Moss: 0 Thomas: 1 Number of TDs: Owens: 5 Moss: 3 Thomas: 3 Yards per catch: Owens: 15.1 Moss: 12.9 Thomas: 13 Number of games with more than 4 receptions: Owens: 3 Moss: 7 Thomas: 1 Number of games started: Owens: 16 Moss: 16 Thomas: 10 Yet it's Owens who put up "respectable" numbers. The only stat where Owens is significantly ahead of either Moss or Thomas last year was in number of receptions, and that was only when compared to Thomas (55 to 25). Moss had more receptions than T.O. did (70 to 55). But Owens was the Bills' #1 receiver and started every game...Thomas switched between being the Skins' #2 and #3 receiver and only started 10 games. I would think that plays some role in the difference. Now add onto that the fact that Owens is a year older--and he was already getting older and less productive even before going to Buffalo--and I don't see the need to rush out and sign him. Both Moss and (of course) Thomas have a large number of years on Owens. Anyone thinking we'd get anything remotely close to T.O. in his prime is deluding themselves. He's been a shell of his former self for the last two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santanathegreat Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Crappy receivers, historically bad o-line, terrible coach, and no running game to speak of.... Jason Campbell was the only semi-bright spot on this team. Maybe "candle" is a fitting moniker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Apparently the "not on my team" crowd at the moment includes all 32 GMs lol... I bet the subject line, for this conspiring email, read: Say NO to TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Crappy receivers, historically bad o-line, terrible coach, and no running game to speak of....Jason Campbell was the only semi-bright spot on this team. Maybe "candle" is a fitting moniker... I don't think that Campbell was that 'bright' of a spot.I don't want to turn this into another Campbell thread but I can't help but note how his issues influenced the WRs development, and contributed to his team-mates' poor performance. Clutch QB play is pivotal to an offense elevating its game --and Campbell failed on several opportunities when he alone could have made the difference. But keeping more on topic . . .if Kelly and Thomas make the final roster, let's see what they are capable of with McNabb at QB. I think we are going to be pleasantly surprised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santanathegreat Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I don't think that Campbell was that 'bright' of a spot.I don't want to turn this into another Campbell thread but I can't help but note how his issues influenced the WRs development, and contributed to his team-mates' poor performance. Clutch QB play is pivotal to an offense elevating its game --and Campbell failed on several opportunities when he alone could have made the difference. *scratches head* How can one player make a difference alone, if his line couldn't block and his receivers just don't get any separation from defenders? A good offensive team is just a bunch of parts that work together...any one part of that machine fails, and more than likely that offense is going to fail. JC wasn't god. He can't make horrible and dumb receivers get open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 *scratches head*How can one player make a difference alone, if his line couldn't block and his receivers just don't get any separation from defenders? A good offensive team is just a bunch of parts that work together...any one part of that machine fails, and more than likely that offense is going to fail. JC wasn't god. He can't make horrible and dumb receivers get open. What I think me meant was that there were enough times when the line held, the receivers got open deep, and JC just flat-out missed connecting with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I don't think that Campbell was that 'bright' of a spot.I don't want to turn this into another Campbell thread but I can't help but note how his issues influenced the WRs development, and contributed to his team-mates' poor performance. Clutch QB play is pivotal to an offense elevating its game --and Campbell failed on several opportunities when he alone could have made the difference. I've hesitated to post this comment made by JC in a Q and A session with a Raider reporter for the same reason. But supposing the comment was made out of JC's experience with the Redskins, I have to wonder which player or players JC is talking about. Yes, it shows a lack of respect for JC but it also shows a lack of respect towards the coaching staff and the ineptitude of the coaches to allow it. "Q: How quickly is the relationship between you and the receivers developing? Campbell: One thing I like about them is that you can tell them to do something and they’ll do it. They won’t complain about it, they won’t second guess it. They’ll just line up and do it. Today, individually, they ran a lot of deep routes and no one complained. They just catch the ball and get into a rhythm because it’s all about getting a feel for each other and the quicker that can happen the better off we’ll be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 db thanks to my cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 db thanks to my cat. So what does your cat think about Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 So what does your cat think about Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly? lol Not much apparently, since was her tail that hit the mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Campbell: One thing I like about them is that you can tell them to do something and they’ll do it. They won’t complain about it, they won’t second guess it. They’ll just line up and do it. Today, individually, they ran a lot of deep routes and no one complained. They just catch the ball and get into a rhythm because it’s all about getting a feel for each other and the quicker that can happen the better off we’ll be." I've always wondered how much of a carry over effect it had that Moss and our receivers always like to train away off in Florida or made such a big fuss about vets getting their reps off and not doing two-a-days or tiring themselves out. You always hear stories about receivers and qbs working together in the offseason and yet for years that never really happened here. It might explain why the only receiver Jason seemed to have a rapport with was Cooley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfmonk Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Trade Portis for Eddie Royal! This is why all 32 teams passed on Devin Thoman and Malcolm Kelly. Way to go Vinny! Trade CP for Royal and a second....straight up is a great deal for them and horrible for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Trade CP for Royal and a second....straight up is a great deal for them and horrible for us. No one on earth is giving a 2nd for CP. No one on earth would give a 4th for CP this late in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyomingRedskin Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Dude, Royal had like 3 catches for 2 yards last year. Which is a result of the change in the offensive scheme ran by the Broncos currently. Feel free to look up the success that Royal had when he played under Shanny in his system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Not even Moss? He should get his money back on the HGH. IF he actually took it, which he probably did not. It's been said before: THREE second round picks. two WRs and a TE... and for what? Fred Davis. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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