RI: Redskins Receivers Have Been Unimpressive

[McD5]

I hope things turn quickly, but Thomas and Kelly are both looking like huge busts.

The great receivers show talent, even on crappy teams with crappy quarterbacks.

And they don't need three years.

Calvin Johnson in Detroit? His qbs(plural) sucked, and his team sucked. He didn't suck.

Can Kelly and Thomas ever improve enough to be marginal receivers? Let's hope so. But can either be expected to ever be top receivers in the league--worthy of 2nd round picks? Child please.

That draft is looking more and more like the worst in franchise history, in terms of the number of picks we had, and wasted

[NewCliche21]

I hope things turn quickly, but Thomas and Kelly are both looking like huge busts.

The great receivers show talent, even on crappy teams with crappy quarterbacks.

And they don't need three years.

Calvin Johnson in Detroit? His qbs(plural) sucked, and his team sucked. He didn't suck.

Can Kelly and Thomas ever improve enough to be marginal receivers? Let's hope so. But can either be expected to ever be top receivers in the league--worthy of 2nd round picks? Child please.

That draft is looking more and more like the worst in franchise history, in terms of the number of picks we had, and wasted

I don't think that Calvin Johnson is a fair comparison at all given what he was touted to be. And he's not exactly Andre at this point, either.

I also don't understand why we can't just give them this year and then judge them.

I'm also wondering what these great receivers are who shined right off the bat. Like, if we went and looked at Art Monk, Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders, Charlie Brown, Charlie Taylor, and so on, would we see guys who lit it up their first two years under a HORRIBLE coach/offense/line/quarterback? I'm doubting it. I'm also thinking that the second round duo's contemporaries have endured the same problems.

[msak24cardss]

Player No. Yards Avg. TD

Santana Moss 70 902 12.9 3

A. Randle El 50 530 10.6 0

Fred Davis 48 509 10.6 6

Chris Cooley 29 332 11.4 2

Rock Cartwright 27 242 9.0 1

Devin Thomas 25 325 13.0 3

Malcolm Kelly 25 347 13.9 0

Ladell Betts 17 179 10.5 0

Mike Sellers 17 176 10.4 2

Clinton Portis 9 57 6.3 1

Quinton Ganther 9 99 11.0 0

Marcus Mason 6 58 9.7 0

Marko Mitchell 4 32 8.0 0

[darrelgreenie]

I hope things turn quickly, but Thomas and Kelly are both looking like huge busts.

The great receivers show talent, even on crappy teams with crappy quarterbacks.

And they don't need three years.

That draft is looking more and more like the worst in franchise history, in terms of the number of picks we had, and wasted

Do you like anything about your own team?

Everytime you post its always looking at things in the worst way possible.

Its like everyone that isn't an All-pro sucks.

No player at any position follows the same career trajectory.

There are so many factors at play from scheme, coaching, maturity, QB, position coach, health, # of targets, off-season program, playcalling etc.

Its a common league wide adage that it takes 3 years for a receiver to blossom.

Anyway.........................

With ARE gone there at least 66 targets avaible for Devin/Malcom (going off last years numbers)

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=pass&teamid=32&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

If you split the targets evenly it works out to these numbers:

Devin Thomas 74 targets 45 catches 587 yards

Malcolm Kelly 71 targets 47 catches 653 yards

But, there will probably be more targets and the targets might not get split evenly so Malcolm or Devin could end up being the primary receiver

[dfbovey]

You know in that draft all 32 teams also passed on DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery, and every other WR since there was no WR drafted in the 1st round.

The fun part, is that any player taken at that spot would have been passed on by 32 teams. It's the nature of picking 33rd...

[dfbovey]

SWFL, I really don't think the Redskins would have brought 38 year old Galloway and 33 year old Furrey into the mix if Thomas and Kelly looked that great..

They actually brought in Furrey to have enought players to run practice since there were a few guys out with injury issues during the last OTA session.

[TheLongshot]

Their impact outside of Thomas' game against New Orleans was tepid at best.

The offense in general last year was tepid at best, so that says nothing.

SWFL, I really don't think the Redskins would have brought 38 year old Galloway and 33 year old Furrey into the mix if Thomas and Kelly looked that great.

Considering that Moss is the only veteran WR returning from last year's team, it is pretty obvious why vets were brought in. This isn't a coaching staff who is going to risk everything that a young player is going to break out. BTW, there is no guarantee that any of these veteran guys will even make the team.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

If come late summer/ early fall when this thing rolls again, Moss fails to return to his '05 form now he has someone that can utilize him deep and actually hit him in stride down there, instead of over/under throwing him and making him contort his body in to positions it shouldn't be contorted in to; and Kelly and Thomas don't have break-out years now they've finally gotten both a top notch play caller, and competent pro QB, to say the very least, who'll spread it around and get them the rock on a regular basis; I'll start to get worried.

Pad less, relaxed practices in the spring; not so much. It's all about building up slowly and getting back in to the swing of it people. Mistakes are gona' be common place and not a big concern at this early juncture.

Nobody won anything for being World beaters in early June.

Hail.

[bedlamVR]

I hope things turn quickly, but Thomas and Kelly are both looking like huge busts.

The great receivers show talent, even on crappy teams with crappy quarterbacks.

And they don't need three years.

Calvin Johnson in Detroit? His qbs(plural) sucked, and his team sucked. He didn't suck.

Can Kelly and Thomas ever improve enough to be marginal receivers? Let's hope so. But can either be expected to ever be top receivers in the league--worthy of 2nd round picks? Child please.

That draft is looking more and more like the worst in franchise history, in terms of the number of picks we had, and wasted

Personally I think this is the new black from the Washington Post is when Big Al turns up to camp and if as reports suggest he turns up in better shape than last year then the negativity towards him will appear childish .

Reid etc really wanted Williams to look lost and lazy but the true nature of this line will not be known until they are practicing in pads . So far Williams has impressed with his work ethic and ability . So again railing against him looks childish .

So now Reid etal turn on the WR corp . Nothing new . I am not sure how much of the new offense is installed but we will know more in time . But as usual the typical suspects come out and make a huge issue out of this .

The reason I quoted McD5 is because he is consistantly negative .

CJ as good a player as he is has not really lit the world on fire given he was the no.2. overall draft pick in 2007 . He has one good season under his belt but 5TDs last season ? Hardly a game breaker . Our huge bust waste of pick Sleepy Fred Davis had more than that in half a season in 2009 .

Sure Deseasn Jackson has come out of the blocks and blown people away and he may be the best WR out of his class but his monumental rise exemption to the rule .

Eddie Royal had an amazing rookie year then dropped off the face of the earth in 2009 . But do people remember Jordy Nelson ?

If you want to make comparisons look at the Giants Steve Smith last season, or Sydney Rice of the Vikings both 2007 2nd round picks who exploded last season .

Vincent Jackson a second round pick who found his way in year 4 .

The NFL is littered with busts and stars . It is still a little early to give up MK and DT and I am really not going to give up on them based on what Jason Reid, who, if the work ethics of his predecessors are anything to go by has probably not been near Redskins park since January ...

[tex]

vinny sucked so bad. i about fell out of my chair when snyder brought him back. why that eight ball was kept around so long is beyond me.

[1972FAN]

Lets see how they do during preseason before we judge...

I mean there has been players who have been phenomenal during training camp/ota/practice and does show ANY of it on the field...

I am going to take a wait and see before I judge anything.

Valid point

[SWFLSkins]

SWFL, I really don't think the Redskins would have brought 38 year old Galloway and 33 year old Furrey into the mix if Thomas and Kelly looked that great.

I realize there are 5 or 6 wide receiver slots to fill but the last two spots are usually reserved for rookies or guys that play special teams.

Galloway and Furrey aren't special teamers so that means to me that they are being brought in to compete as PASS CATCHERS and that means that they are competing directly with Thomas and Kelly.

Moss is the only given at WR and he is 31 years old with a potential suspension hanging over his head.

Again, I would expect a trade or the signing of a name veteran (from training camp releases around the NFL in July/August) if the situation doesn't improve.

And that suspension hanging over Moss's head is more plausible reason then the OTA performance of both Thomas and Kelly. Also consider that Thomas is injured and Kelly was not looking great and then you need bodies just for the three QB's to throw to. Kind of like the RB's, Shanny is going to find some contributors on offense, young-old makes no diff. And I don't know what kind of shape those two are in, but sounding the man over board signal is not needed at this time. Competition is good for the soul and foundation of the team.

[SWFLSkins]

That draft is looking more and more like the worst in franchise history, in terms of the number of picks we had, and wasted

Still don't know why they took Davis with Cooley on board and gambled on both wideouts. There were so many other needs and certainly a big wideout was one. But there is no way to explain that draft. We can all be hopeful that two of the three produce, but right now only one looks like a true second rounder.

[TSO]

You didn't need a report to know this, or any info from camp.

McNabb threw with our receivers that very first weekend. The next day? We brought a ton of fresh receivers in.

After one weekend with our WRs, McNabb knew immediately that he couldn't win with them.

He did now, huh? And the next day? As if we brought all the new WRs we've signed thus far in on the same day. The drafted WR, undrafted rookies, and UFAs we didn't sign until after the draft are of no consequence to McD5's speculation dressed in factual statements!

Furthermore, wouldn't it be quite the slight to our coaches ability to recognize talent or effectively judge the quality of their personnel if they couldn't figure out the WRs stank so bad on their own? You mean you actually believe that they needed Mcnabb to let them in on the secret after just one day of throwing to them?

lol, it must be so simple living in your world. Just run rampant with speculation, put it in words, then assume it's true. Finally, state it as plain fact so others will view it as such. You should work for some propaganda ministry.

There is the possibility that all these guys brought in are fighting for one or two spots, neither of which will affect Devin or Malcolms spots. There is also the possibility that the vets brought in are here to actually provide the young guys a vast resource of knowledge for playing WR in the NFL. Other possibilities I may have missed not withstanding, there is the possibility that you're exactly right. So let's just acknowledge all possibilities without a desperate attempt to be inhumanly right, sound good?

[Polo3]

This board always goes banana's just wait until McNabb throws a pass in the dirt or misses an open receiver.

Wait...what!!! Mcnabb threw some passes in the dirt and missed some open receivers???? WTF@^^^$**#^& We need to start looking to see what Grossman has in the tank:silly:

[Ashburn Dave]

Apparently Jim Zorn had no idea how to design plays, so it is understandable that he had a total lack of ability to contribute to scouts' evaluations of the offensive players that we drafted under his and VC's watch.

Now that there is no tie between these two and the regime, they need to make the team based on merit in 2010. If they aren't one of the top 5 receivers on the roster when it is time to make cuts, cut them. If there are better players that can be signed, sign them. DT has shown only flashes and MK has shown nothing. What a disappointment.

There is no doubt in my mind that all our players will make the team based on 2010 merit now that Shanny has the final word. This is the way we want it.

[blue collar]

T. O. Come on dowwwwwnnnnnn!

In comes the "Not on my team" crowd. But I agree with you.

[Stew]

In comes the "Not on my team" crowd. But I agree with you.

The "Not on my team" crowd really has no leg to stand on.

. Is he better then any WR we currently have? Yes

. He stuck up for Romo sits to pee in Dallas ("Das my Quata-back" :::tear trickle:: and wasn't a negative force in Buffalo. He isn't the lockerroom cancer the media made him out to be in the past.

. For the situation he was in, and for the QB he had throwing him the ball, his numbers were at the very least respectable last season.

. With nobody biting on him, he knows that his chances are limited, he knows he cant mess this opportunity up.

. Having T.O. opposite Moss and Cooley creates a mismatch either with a LB covering Cooley in space or single coverage on Moss/Gallaway against a #2 or #3 DB.

. It gives DT and MK more time to step their game up and a successful WR to model their game after. T.O can impart valuable tips and advice to these guys and from what I have read in the past, T.O. has a good relationship with DT.

. This move would be relatively inexpensive. T.O. isn't gonna get what he wants on the open market, an incentive laden contract with realistic goals and letting him know up front that his antics wont be tolerated but that his play will be rewarded, is the best way to go for both of us.

There are a ton more reasons why this move would benefit the Skins. The negative reaction to T.O. is still a knee/jerk reaction from the media stories and past experiences. Id like to know why the crowd against T.O. doesn't want him here with the sorry state of our WR corps.

[HailGreen28]

The "Not on my team" crowd really has no leg to stand on.

. Is he better then any WR we currently have? Yes

. He stuck up for Romo sits to pee in Dallas ("Das my Quata-back" :::tear trickle:: and wasn't a negative force in Buffalo. He isn't the lockerroom cancer the media made him out to be in the past.

. For the situation he was in, and for the QB he had throwing him the ball, his numbers were at the very least respectable last season.

. With nobody biting on him, he knows that his chances are limited, he knows he cant mess this opportunity up.

. Having T.O. opposite Moss and Cooley creates a mismatch either with a LB covering Cooley in space or single coverage on Moss/Gallaway against a #2 or #3 DB.

. It gives DT and MK more time to step their game up and a successful WR to model their game after. T.O can impart valuable tips and advice to these guys and from what I have read in the past, T.O. has a good relationship with DT.

. This move would be relatively inexpensive. T.O. isn't gonna get what he wants on the open market, an incentive laden contract with realistic goals and letting him know up front that his antics wont be tolerated but that his play will be rewarded, is the best way to go for both of us.

There are a ton more reasons why this move would benefit the Skins. The negative reaction to T.O. is still a knee/jerk reaction from the media stories and past experiences. Id like to know why the crowd against T.O. doesn't want him here with the sorry state of our WR corps.

Me-O undoubtedly WAS a locker-room cancer in Dallass, Philly, and San Fran. He's demonstrated that he's capable of getting along in the first year he's with a team. After that: cancer.

On paper he'd be a great asset. But nobody's picking him up because he's an ass.

[Stew]

Me-O undoubtedly WAS a locker-room cancer in Dallass, Philly, and San Fran. He's demonstrated that he's capable of getting along in the first year he's with a team. After that: cancer.

On paper he'd be a great asset. But nobody's picking him up because he's an ass.

Ill give you philly and san-fran. he was young and full of himself. I saw him defending his QB in Dallas, and I still think the media made him out to be more of a cancer then he really was. I think he contributed to Dallas' success more then anyone else on the team when he was with Dallas. They lost because Romo sits to pee cannot deliver in clutch situations. T.O. was the only reason Philly was even competitivein the Superbowl, and he was playing on a broken leg.... came back early just to play and still scored a TD.

In Buffalo you didn't hear a word out of him and he still put up respectable numbers on a crappy team.

He knows his chances are at the very least... limited. He isn't trying to screw this next opportunity up. I think this would be a great come-back story and a chance at redemption.

He would be an instant upgrade at WR and he is better then any WR we currently have.

[LadySkinsFan]

Ill give you philly and san-fran. he was young and full of himself. I saw him defending his QB in Dallas, and I still think the media made him out to be more of a cancer then he really was. I think he contributed to Dallas' success more then anyone else on the team when he was with Dallas. They lost because Romo sits to pee cannot deliver in clutch situations. T.O. was the only reason Philly was even competitivein the Superbowl, and he was playing on a broken leg.... came back early just to play and still scored a TD.

In Buffalo you didn't hear a word out of him and he still put up respectable numbers on a crappy team.

He knows his chances are at the very least... limited. He isn't trying to screw this next opportunity up. I think this would be a great come-back story and a chance at redemption.

He would be an instant upgrade at WR and he is better then any WR we currently have.

+1 Hail!

[Burgold]

The "Not on my team" crowd really has no leg to stand on.

Well, probably the best argument I have is that the best way to get a player ready to contribute is to have them contribute. Let them experience the field in the crucial situations and give the coaches and player tape on themselves so that they can see what they are doing right and wrong. A player can improve from the bench, can get refocused because of a benchings, but there is nothing like learning by doing.

Hiring TO means one of the pups doesn't get his opportunities except in practice or certainly not as many opportunities. Since the liklihhood of this team being a Super Bowl contender is slim... I'd rather give the pups their shot and give these coaches a shot to get them through their growing pains. If they don't have it we need to know. If they can't get it we need to know that too.

TO really doesn't give us anythhing except a delay in maturation. He doesn't provide instant wins. Look at Buffalo.

[Stew]

Well, probably the best argument I have is that the best way to get a player ready to contribute is to have them contribute. Let them experience the field in the crucial situations and give the coaches and player tape on themselves so that they can see what they are doing right and wrong. A player can improve from the bench, can get refocused because of a benchings, but there is nothing like learning by doing.

Hiring TO means one of the pups doesn't get his opportunities except in practice or certainly not as many opportunities. Since the liklihhood of this team being a Super Bowl contender is slim... I'd rather give the pups their shot and give these coaches a shot to get them through their growing pains. If they don't have it we need to know. If they can't get it we need to know that too.

TO really doesn't give us anythhing except a delay in maturation. He doesn't provide instant wins. Look at Buffalo.

You make a point to an extent with letting the young guys go, but I think if they cant earn their way onto the playing field, that says enough to me. Just b/c T.O. is here doesn't mean the young guys don't get their touches. T.O. is in the twilight of his career, and will need to be spelled at times. Moss is also facing possible suspension. This is the perfect situation for the two young guns, Learning from a successful WR, and with no pressure of needing one of them to succeed immediately. Even if T.O. is on the team this season, it doesn't delay the maturation of the player, it lessens the haste with which they need to produce, giving them time to work on their game. They could actually learn a lot from T.O., he runs crisp routes and is good at getting position coming off his route. DT could def use some of that rubbing off on him. Galloway and Furrey arent locks to make the final roster.

[jnhay]

TO really doesn't give us anythhing except a delay in maturation. He doesn't provide instant wins. Look at Buffalo.

Buffalo had terrible QBs though. That's a difference that stands out to me.

[HailGreen28]

Ill give you philly and san-fran. he was young and full of himself. I saw him defending his QB in Dallas, and I still think the media made him out to be more of a cancer then he really was. I think he contributed to Dallas' success more then anyone else on the team when he was with Dallas. They lost because Romo sits to pee cannot deliver in clutch situations. T.O. was the only reason Philly was even competitivein the Superbowl, and he was playing on a broken leg.... came back early just to play and still scored a TD.

In Buffalo you didn't hear a word out of him and he still put up respectable numbers on a crappy team.

He knows his chances are at the very least... limited. He isn't trying to screw this next opportunity up. I think this would be a great come-back story and a chance at redemption.

He would be an instant upgrade at WR and he is better then any WR we currently have.

If he wasn't so much of a cancer in Dallass, the pukes would have kept him. Hell, the eagles and niners would have kept him.

One good year in Buffalo, like the first year wherever he goes.

You raise good points about his performance, but he's old. Kiss of death for a position that relies on speed. We'd be a lot better off trying to develop youth, rather than a questionable quick fix. Give the coaches' attention, practice reps, and playing time to someone else. Someone not proven to be a head-case, to someone that could be with us for a long time.