Israel raids ships carrying aid to Gaza, killings civilians

[SoCalSkins]

I'd argue it is legal. Any nation may prevent another from coming onto its territory legally.

Now, is it the right thing to do? That's quite different a different question, but Israel does have the right to close off her borders terrestially and on the sea.

Gaza is not Israel's territory.

If it is, then the people there should have a right to vote and move freely within Israel as a whole.

[JMS]

Does anyone have any credible evidence some of the stuff being mentioned is banned?

From today's Post (print):

Pasta is banned.... That's a famous one..

However, an incident occured last week at a crossing into the Gaza Strip that gave a very different impression to a senior observer. When Senator John Kerry visited the Strip, he learned that many trucks loaded with pasta were not permitted in. When the chairman of the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee inquired as to the reason for the delay, he was told by United Nations aid officials that "Israel does not define pasta as part of humanitarian aid - only rice shipments."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/clinton-warns-israel-over-delays-in-gaza-aid-1.270882

Cement is also banned because Hamas can use it to build their tunnels into Egypt and get around the blockade..

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100531120231AAB42tj

Basically the Israelis are punishing the Gaza's for electing Hamas to lead them. Right or wrong, that's what the 3 years of blockade is all about. It goes far beyond just trying to keep weapons out of the hands of Hamas.

[Larry]

To give us citizen's rights, not terrorists that want to kill us rights. Rights that give people like yourself, the right to whine and cry about republicans and israelies protecting its citizens.

Then I suggest that you go back and learn what you should have learned in High School. Because you're wrong again.

Here, I'll let you know that the answer is:

The purpose of the Constitution is to form (to "Constitute") the government of the United States. (That's why it's called "the Constitution". Neat, huh?)

This song is called "Alice's Restaurant". It's a song about Alice. And the restaurant. But "Alice's Restaurant" was never the name of the restaurant. That's just the name of the song.

That's why I call this song "Alice's Restaurant".

The Constitution spells out exactly which powers the citizens chose to grant, and to prohibit, this government.

The Constitution does not "grant" any rights, to anybody.

The Constitution grants (and denies) powers to the government.

The Constitution does not grant Freedom of Speech. To anyone. The People already had Freedom of Speech, before the Constitution, because before the Constitution (well, actually, before Government version 1) there was no government to take that freedom away.

(The government is

incapable

of granting Freedom. It can only take it away.)

That's why the Constitution doesn't say "people will have Freedom of Speech. (Unless the Republican Party can come up with some imaginary phrase that doesn't exist in this Constitution, and then claim that because that phrase doesn't exist, therefore the government can do whatever it wants.)"

It says "The people hereby forbid their government from infringing on Freedom of Speech".

[JMS]

They didnt know that, you assume they new that. They cant assume there harmless items in there. They have a duty to protect there citizens. EVERYTIME.

It's not about keeping weapons out of Gaza. Israel knew they didn't have weapons on board... Least Israell's never claimed they had or thought they might have weapons. Likewise these ships came from Turkey, a rather big ally of Israel's.

It's about control, and punishing the Gazan's and by extantion Hamas. Even non leathan humanitarian aid in the hands of hamas empowers them. That's what Israel is trying to curtaill.

[Gibbs4Life]

Well that makes you smarter than President Bush's legal team, because they did not believe the Geneva convention tied their hands with the treatement of enemy combatants.... which is why they used the term rather than POW's...

And again the Bush legal team believed they could selectively deny even US citizens their rights if they decided the offenses were great enough. Remember they heald American citizens as enemy combatants too.

Actually the US constitution limits the power of government... Thus it just says the same limits which apply to citizens effect the US governments treatments of non citizens too..... It protects the rights of the innnocent and suspected criminals too...

It was always that way, prior to Bush. Just took a few years to reaffirm it under the bush years.

The government can't make up a catagory of people and claim they have no rights. If they could then nobodies rights would be worth a bucket of spit...

Thats because we are at war, you liberals dont seem to understand that concept. Imagine how world war 2 would have gone, if, we had to give rights to Pow's and charge them with something or send them back. We would not have won ww2 if liberals of today were in charge.

You dont give terrorists/enemy combatants/pows/ whatever the hell you want to call them the right of us citizens its insanity. In the history of the world when have people at war given the enemy the same rights as its citizens?

No you can ship them back after the war is over, which is what normally happens but you dont send them back in the middle of the war so you have to detain them.

[Larry]

Except for all of the folks that disagree.

Whats wrong is a "country" whose elected leaders are terrorists who state they want to destroy Israel.

Oh no!!! They voted for somebody I dislike!!!! Let's starve them to death. That'll teach 'em not to dislike us.

The have a blockade to prevent those same terrorists from getting weapons which they use almost daily to attack Israel.

And to prevent pasta, and coffee, and concrete, and medicine, from reaching occupied civilians. Because making civilians starve is the way civilized, moral people deal do things when the people you are occupying have the nerve to up and vote in favor of not being occupied any more.

You're going to ignore or attempt to change these facts and then offer a tired fallacy to change the debate. Go ahead now. We're waiting.

Now, that's rich coming from the guy whose position is that Israel killed 10 unarmed civilians because a boatload of coffee, pasta, concrete, and medicine was a threat to the existence of Israel, and that Israel was simply forced to defend themselves from this completely unprovoked terrorist attack.

[Predicto]

To give us citizen's rights, not terrorists that want to kill us rights. Rights that give people like yourself, the right to whine and cry about republicans and israelies protecting its citizens.

You are incorrect.

The purpose of the Constitution is to limit the power of the US Government.

That is why it was written as "the Government may not do X or Y."

Whether or not a particular person is or is not a citizen is not the question, and it never has been. Whether a person has been accused of being a terrorist (or a murderer, or a rapist, or a tax cheat) is not the question either.

[AzSkinsFan63]

http://www.stangoodenough.com/?p=405

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=176668

[Larry]

They didnt know that, you assume they new that. They cant assume there harmless items in there. They have a duty to protect there citizens. EVERYTIME.

They have a duty to prevent weapons from being shipped in.

That's not what they're doing. Despite the efforts to shovel a barricade of BS to try to hide the fact.

[Gibbs4Life]

Then I suggest that you go back and learn what you should have learned in High School. Because you're wrong again.

Here, I'll let you know that the answer is:

The purpose of the Constitution is to form (to "Constitute") the government of the United States. (That's why it's called "the Constitution". Neat, huh?)

This song is called "Alice's Restaurant". It's a song about Alice. And the restaurant. But "Alice's Restaurant" was never the name of the restaurant. That's just the name of the song.

That's why I call this song "Alice's Restaurant".

The Constitution spells out exactly which powers the citizens chose to grant, and to prohibit, this government.

The Constitution does not "grant" any rights, to anybody.

The Constitution grants (and denies) powers to the government.

The Constitution does not grant Freedom of Speech. To anyone. The People already had Freedom of Speech, before the Constitution, because before the Constitution (well, actually, before Government version 1) there was no government to take that freedom away.

(The government is

incapable

of granting Freedom. It can only take it away.)

That's why the Constitution doesn't say "people will have Freedom of Speech. (Unless the Republican Party can come up with some imaginary phrase that doesn't exist in this Constitution, and then claim that because that phrase doesn't exist, therefore the government can do whatever it wants.)"

It says "The people hereby forbid their government from infringing on Freedom of Speech".

You got alot of brass as a liberal quoting the consitution to me, considering liberals spit on the constitution everyday. You never said your level of education larry. You dont seem very smart, considering you said the constitution of the united states doesnt grant rights to anyone, but the first ten amendments are called the bill of rights lol.

[Skins24]

Pasta is banned.... That's a famous one..

As what I posted stated, most stuff is "banned" on a case by case basis.

That pasta was let in btw.

Basically the Israelis are punishing the Gaza's for electing Hamas to lead them. Right or wrong, that's what the 3 years of blockade is all about. It goes far beyond just trying to keep weapons out of the hands of Hamas.

Yeah...

Just wondering why some are acting like Israel is blocking vital materials or essential stuff. Or claiming they're using lethal force to block things from getting in. Previous attempts to run the blockade were without lethal incident, some even being successful.

[Kilmer17]

They have a duty to prevent weapons from being shipped in.

That's not what they're doing. Despite the efforts to shovel a barricade of BS to try to hide the fact.

Larry, your BS is the only thing being shovelled here. Israel not only warned them, they also offered to let them bring the ships into Israel for inspecion and offered to bring the supplies over for them. Israel had no way of knowing what was actually on the ships.

But EVERYONE here knows supllies werent the objective. this was deliberate attempt to provoke Israel. Congrats to them. they succeeded. But the blood is on their own hands, not on the Israelis.

[Mooka]

You got alot of brass as a liberal quoting the consitution to me, considering liberals spit on the constitution everyday. You never said your level of education larry. You dont seem very smart, considering you said the constitution of the united states doesnt grant rights to anyone, but the first ten amendments are called the bill of rights lol.

This is not a left vs right thing. You seriously don't understand the document.

The Bill of Rights does not give you anything. You already have, endowed by your creator, inalienable rights. The Bill of Rights says the government cannot infringe on those rights.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

For the record, Hamas does so much for the people of Gaza. They weren't elected because the people wanted to fire rockets into Israel. They were elected because of their social work. They build quality schools, food banks, and hospitals.

http://www.almubadara.org/new/edetails.php?id=887

And if israel is so scared of being attacked, why not stop Syria from funneling weapons to Hezbollah. They are a bigger threat.

[Gibbs4Life]

You are incorrect.

The purpose of the Constitution is to limit the power of the US Government.

That is why it was written as "the Government may not do X or Y."

Whether or not a particular person is or is not a citizen is not the question, and it never has been. Whether a person has been accused of being a terrorist (or a murderer, or a rapist, or a tax cheat) is not the question either.

Wow you people might want to read your constitution again, Has no liberal heard of the bill or rights?

[Kilmer17]

For the record, Hamas does so much for the people of Gaza. They weren't elected because the people wanted to fire rockets into Israel. They were elected because of their social work. They build quality schools, food banks, and hospitals.

http://www.almubadara.org/new/edetails.php?id=887

And if israel is so scared of being attacked, why not stop Syria from funneling weapons to Hezbollah. They are a bigger threat.

Musolini made the trains run on time.

[Predicto]

Wow you people might want to read your constitution again, Has no liberal heard of the bill or rights?

What do you do for a living again?

[Larry]

Thats because we are at war, you liberals dont seem to understand that concept.

Ah, now we move away from the first ignorant attempt to wish the Constitution out of existence by inventing a sound bite, to the next one.

I know this is going to come as a shock to you, but there is no "this part of the Constitution doesn't apply during time of war" clause in the Constitution, either.

With one notable exception: Article 1, Section 9, does contain the clause

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

Article 1 covers the powers of the

Legislative

branch, and section 9 limits those powers. So it's very clear that Congress

does

have the power to suspend Habeas. However, they have not done so. (I think they have not done so since the Civil War.)

----------

I'll give you another clue, for free.

The Constitution grants powers to the government. If you were to succeed in your efforts to find the Magic Sound Bite which magically caused the Constitution to cease to exist in some alternate dimension, then the result would be that the government would have no power in that situation.

You "real Americans" who are desperately working to invent some place, or people, or circumstance, in which "the Constitution doesn't count"?

What you're really trying to do is to find a place where "well, all of the parts of the Constitution that deny power to the government? Well, they don't count any more. But, all the parts that give power to the government? Well, they not only still hold, but they become unlimited."

[Madison Redskin]

You got alot of brass as a liberal quoting the consitution to me, considering liberals spit on the constitution everyday.

How so? Cue the soundbites and snuff the legal analysis.

[Gibbs4Life]

This is not a left vs right thing. You seriously don't understand the document.

The Bill of Rights does not give you anything. You already have, endowed by your creator, inalienable rights. The Bill of Rights says the government cannot infringe on those rights.

No offense but i dont believe in a creator, i believe in the rule of law. No god has given me anything

[Predicto]

Musolini made the trains run on time.

Menachem Begin. :pfft:

[Burgold]

Wow you people might want to read your constitution again, Has no liberal heard of the bill or rights?

Good grief. Quit while you're ahead. Better yet, if this is what you truly believe. Just quit.

[Gibbs4Life]

What do you do for a living again?

Deputy sheriff for virginia beach

[Mooka]

No offense but i dont believe in a creator, i believe in the rule of law. No god has given me anything

Oi.

You might want to read the Declaration of Independence as well.

[brianm23]

The ignorance in this thread is mind boggling. It's amazing how many people swallow stuff they see as whole, or simply just make up stuff to support their side.

If you are implying that you think people who tie explosives to their backs for the purpose of blowing up as many people as they can is an act of self-defense... I disagree.

Imagine this. You are backed into a corner with nothing to defend yourself against a superior foe. The only recourse you have is to attack something that foe deems precious. Do you allow the foe to kill you or do you use your survival instincts and attack that valuable object. I assure you, you will do the same if put into the situation they are in.

Israel has carried out the systematic murder of civilians for decades.

They are a terrorist state.

Guess who enabled them to do this? If your answer is the United States, then you sir are the winner in today's challenge! Bob, tell him what he's won.

muslims want jerusalem and wont stop till ever its theirs or everyone is dead.

I don't think this map supports that statement.

but I have said that in scale as well as execution it was nothing like the holocaust, for one thing the average american even as bigoted as they may have been in the 1800's would never have put up with death camps,

Ignorance at it's finest. The holocaust was a drop in the bucket compared to how many native americans were killed. What makes you think they wouldn't have put up with death camps? They killed indians at will and they used people as slaves. You still think they wouldn't have done this?...lol

And now, the usual sorts of anti semites are condemning Israel.

Translation: If you disagree with me, I'll call you anti-Semite and possibly a nazi.

too bad. More terrorist sympathisers dead. good. Great actually.

Im sure youd let EVERYONE through and then condemn Israel for something when it turned out the ships had rockets on them.

Terrorist sympathizers? Glad innocent people are dead that don't support your views? You have to be one of the biggest idiots I've ever come across on the internet. Are you sporting a rebel flag outside of your house by chance? It's obvious in your words you discriminate on a mass level.

Lol thats liberal philosphy that allowed 911 to happen. Dont worry about stopping the cause we will just arrest them after then blow everything up. Obama 101.

Yum Yum, how is that corporate media bull**** tasting? Eat it up whole now. Don't bother chewing, just swallow it whole. Why does it always evolve to "liberal/conservs" mud slinging?