Can our OL compete?

[Ghost of]

LT: Okung, Heyer

LG: Dockery, Lichtenstein

C: Rabach, Lichtenstein

RG: Rinehart, Williams

RT: Hicks, draft pick

I actually think that's a good line (meaning, if we ranked about 13-15). I think one out of BMW or Rinehart will have a good year. Okung or Bulaga or someone at LT should be solid (not nec. great) right away and Rabach with some STABILITY next to him on either side will be solid (again not great but few centers are truly great in this league.)

You left off Will Montgomery. I know KDawg has been high on him (compared to some of our other guys) and I think he's good depth. He can play C or either G, too.

A lot of people also overrate based on draft position. Bryant McKinnie was often TERRIBLE this year but because he's a "starter" on the Vikings and everyone ASSUMES they have a great line (McKinnie and Hutch both had mediocre years for the most part) and was drafted in the 1st round, they think he's good.

I'm stunned to be agreeing with a dgreenie thread but at least he's moved on now to McNabb, so we have something in common again.

I think people don't understand how synergistic the performance of a line and offense is---there were plenty of poorly read blitzes that led to sacks and pressures, balls being held onto and a guy who had a weird pass dropback and often went right into defensive linemen who were effectively blocked or far enough back that the rusher only had to run straight at him rather than around a blocker.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

I trust that we'll get the additions needed to make it a more than serviceable OL.

[dahibachi]

I actually think that's a good line. I think one out of BMW or Rinehart will have a good year. Okung or Bulaga or someone at LT should be solid (not nec. great) right away and Rabach with some STABILITY next to him on either side will be solid (again not great but few centers are truly great in this league.)

You left off Will Montgomery. I know KDawg has been high on him (compared to some of our other guys) and I think he's good depth. He can play C or either G, too.

finally! I thought i was the only one who thinks Rinehart will have a good season. He's only 25 and a former 3rd rounder. He was starting to be a good starter last season before he broke his fibula.

[elkabong82]

finally! I thought i was the only one who thinks Rinehart will have a good season. He's only 25 and a former 3rd rounder. He was starting to be a good starter last season before he broke his fibula.

My qualm about Rinehart is that both times he has gotten play time and started to look he's gotten injured. Eventhough he's young if he develops an injury history it's no good. I think if he stays healthy he could come into his own at RG, especially in Shanny's system.

Since adding Lichtenstein and retaining Williams as well as Montgomery, I think our guards look decent with Dock and Rinehart in there. My concern is at the tackles. Hicks is a stop gap, but RT you can find a good player in the 3rd or 4th (I'm assuming, which I shouldn't do, that we acquire a good pick in one of these rounds soon in a trade), but LT we should draft high since we need a day 1 starter there. Heyer is ok in spot relief, he's not starting material.

If we were comitting the #4 pick to QB, then I'd be more concerned about the OL because finding a day 1 starter at LT in the 2nd round when 7-8 OTs are projected to go in the 1st looked highly unlikely. But now we have the #4 pick and possibly have the option to trade down, esp. if Okung is not there.

Since we have at least 1 high draft pick that could still go to OL I like the prospects of fielding a decent OL better right now.

[alwaysaskin]

Does no one think Chad Rhinehart can be a good player? I mean he's 25 and was a 3rd rounder. I want him to breakout and be a good player

Couldn't crack the active roster in 2008, performed below average to poorly in 2009 before his injury in 2009, a little off the field incident, the guy is looking like an epic bust

[Enter Apotheosis]

It's too soon for this poll. I'd wait and see what we do in the draft and who we bring in from the UDFA pool before making a determination on how long it will take us to get things back in gear.

I will say, though, that Shanahan's approach to offense will make our offensive line LOOK a lot better than it did last year even if the cast of characters is virtually the same (or worse) on paper.

[darklight1216]

Your oline can probably compete with the Rams.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

impossible to answer because not a single person including mike shanahan has any idea who exactly is going to be on our oline come september.

ask this question then.

[Destino]

LT - Okung, LG - Dockery, C - Rabach, RG - M. Williams/Rinehart, RT - Hicks

This line could compete IMO. Not excellent but can get things done until next year when some good FA Lineman will be available.

No excellent?

LT - Rookie. Could be good, could absolutely suck and be a starting guard in 2011.

LG - Dockery, average at best.

C - No longer a starting caliber center. Skins fans have been pointing this out for 3 seasons now so let's not pretend otherwise.

RG - Rinehart has been given multiple chances and failed. Williams was out of the league and is now just trying to remain employed. He's not shown that he's a capable starter.

RT - Hicks couldn't keep a starting spot and is best as depth.

The only one on the list that we know is a starting lineman in the league is Dockery and he's not a good one. 1/5 players. 1 is unknown and 3 are backup quality.

If that isn't a bad line what is? A bunch of hobos picked up off the street? Where is the line for what qualifies as bad?

[ArmchairRedskin]

Elway was sacked 46 times the year before Shanahan arrived. Denver's first pick that year was in round 4. A tackle. That was the only tackle taken that draft by Denver. That season, Elway was sacked 22 times. The first time he had been sacked less than 30 times since 1988.

I don't know how Mike did it exactly, but I know we'll at the very least field a line competent enough to keep McNabb off the turf for the most part.

Btw, Elways attempts actually increased from 492 to 542 from 94 to 95.

[Ghost of]

To add to AR's point, Shanahan found a Lepsis (or Gibbs if you want to give credit, I guess, specifically) to start T for years as an UDFA.

Going beyond that, we relied on rookies like Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen and they did VERY well right away.

Des, it almost sounds like you won't be happy unless they brought in veterans to start who aren't available.

I think the team reviewed tapes and liked enough out of the interior positions (and getting a C for depth) that they are looking mainly at strengthening the edges. Hicks has played RT and FOR CHRIST SAKE, Jeremy Bridges got cut from the SKins and started for the Cardinals. Come on.

Some of you guys are totally overrating how important the line will be in the overall plan THIS year. It must improve but I think it will and they will add a couple more guys and then you can have stability while you slowly initiate more youth there along the line.

But jebus, how good is a sixth round pick Charles Johnson at LT for the Colts? Or is it QB? (not that I think McNabb overcomes a questionable line the same way, he does not.)

The Saints are going to get rid of Brown at LT for 4th rounder Bushrod. It seems like maybe the game done changed and it's just not THAT hard unless you're snakebit at a certain position, which DOES happen, I admit.

[Destino]

Des, it almost sounds like you won't be happy unless they brought in veterans to start who aren't available.

I'd prefer to draft players. Sadly this is not an option with this team. Unless of course we manage to hit on Right Tackle and Center with the 5th and 6th pick. Wouldn't that be something.

Pointing out exceptions to the rule is like me saying we didn't need McNabb because we could have had another Tom Brady with your late picks in the draft. It happens more with OLine because if you think about it, there are 5 times as many starting offensive lineman in the league. The truth however is that top flight offensive lineman are about as likely as QB's to switch teams while they still have much left. There is a reason for that... it's because they aren't easily replaced.

The Redskins OLine is HORRID from a talent stand point. Easily one of the worst in the NFL.

[Oldskool]

Some of you guys are totally overrating how important the line will be in the overall plan THIS year. It must improve but I think it will and they will add a couple more guys and then you can have stability while you slowly initiate more youth there along the line.

I completely disagree. Mike Shanahan's scheme (mind you, Kyle may be calling the plays but they are Mike's still), depends heavily (in terms of the WCO) for the run to compliment the passing game.

Now saying that, I agree that Shanny is probably going to find some mid round prospect that will be an upgrade over the personnel that we currently have on the team. I also don't think that the FO is done wheeling and dealing or satisfied with having only one selection over the first 3 rounds this year.

[Dark Acre]

Assuming that the first 3 picks are: Bradford, Okung, and Suh, I gotta think that Gerald McCoy's availability is tradeworthy enough for us to get 2 OL starters.

[AuburnTigersFan]

We could get by in the interior OL, but with only Stephon Heyer at OT with NFL experience, thats problematic. He's a deep emergency reserve at best... We need 3 OT's better than him on the roster

[Ghost of]

Mike Shanahan's scheme (mind you, Kyle may be calling the plays but they are Mike's still), depends heavily (in terms of the WCO) for the run to compliment the passing game.

Now saying that, I agree that Shanny is probably going to find some mid round prospect that will be an upgrade over the personnel that we currently have on the team. I also don't think that the FO is done wheeling and dealing or satisfied with having only one selection over the first 3 rounds this year.

Exactly. I know it seems like there's disagreement but I'm just saying that while I fully expect to bring in more prospects and maybe a couple veterans who no longer fit in with their teams' plans, I don't see us trying to go all OL in the draft or some other absurdity. It will be a balanced and calm approach. I think our interior is actually OK, the edges and maybe a quality C prospect is what we need to look for.

I'm not asserting that the run won't be important, I think it's clear it WILL be. Just that the evaluations of the struggles of the line may fall in between the "line is fine" and the "line is the worst of all time" camps on the board. I've literally seen people who think the only starter we have on the team now is Dockery. Yes, I've seen people who think Rabach is not starting for us and we need to replace him.

[veteranskinsfan]

Every year after training camp, teams release guys so maybe Allen and Shanny think you can get some backup linemen much later after the draft and during the Summer or Fall. He needs linemen to make his running attack work so you know they have talked about it and will keep focused on it. They maybe be forced to trade for some starting linemen but that means we have to offer a team someone they want from our team and the list of "stars" is pretty slim right now.

[Oldskool]

I'm not asserting that the run won't be important, I think it's clear it WILL be. Just that the evaluations of the struggles of the line may fall in between the "line is fine" and the "line is the worst of all time" camps on the board. I've literally seen people who think the only starter we have on the team now is Dockery. Yes, I've seen people who think Rabach is not starting for us and we need to replace him.

If this team is going to a true ZBS and not a hybrid power blocking game, ideally, I don't see Rabach, or Dockery on the team in 2-3 years and Hicks would be at a point due to age that he wouldn't be a starter either.

As it stands Dockery, Rabach, and Hicks are a decent core for an OL; not great but not horrible either especially in the right scheme. My concern still lays squarely on the tackles.

[StillUnknown]

not as presently constructed (this is with assumption we draft a tackle in the 1st round)

[dfbovey]

If this team is going to a true ZBS and not a hybrid power blocking game, ideally, I don't see Rabach, or Dockery on the team in 2-3 years and Hicks would be at a point due to age that he wouldn't be a starter either.

As it stands Dockery, Rabach, and Hicks are a decent core for an OL; not great but not horrible either especially in the right scheme. My concern still lays squarely on the tackles.

I think there's a good chance that Hicks plays RT this year, with BMW playing RG.

[Oldskool]

I think there's a good chance that Hicks plays RT this year, with BMW playing RG.

I don't know what is a more horrid thought; BMW at RG or Heyer at RT.

I'm hoping one of those two slots will be upgraded either in FA or via the draft.

[J-bomb]

I don't know what is a more horrid thought; BMW at RG or Heyer at RT.

I'm hoping one of those two slots will be upgraded either in FA or via the draft.

I thought he said Hicks at RT not Heyer? Is the thought still horrid if MS decides BMW is playing RG?

[dfbovey]

I think BMW could be a good guard. He probably shouldn't have been put into a position to play last year. He lost a lot of weight and with that a lot of muscle that he had to rebuild. With that year under his belt and another full offseason to continue building his body... I think he could be a very good guard.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

the eagles got by with two mediocre to terrible tackles (somehow, someway jason peters made the pro bowl despite getting abused week in and week out) with mcnabb getting better.

Heyer sucks but Shanahan has turned water into wine with the OL before, and he will presumably have the highest pick at LT he's ever had (the last time he added a top 15 pick at LT, well, if you want to look at a truly dominant line, that 2007 Broncos line was SCARY. I can't get over it - 11 sacks while throwing 600+ passes, that is incomprehensible, and then having a top 10 rushing attack with practice squad guys? Unreal.)

Keep in mind that the pre Shanahan Broncos routinely let Elway get murdered - 35-45 sacks every year, book it. That never happened again in Shanahan's tenure, they halved the sack totals and got a yard more per carry with pretty much the same line as last year. I'd definitely say that if we add Okung/Davis/Bulaga, we'll have a better line talent-wise than those Broncos.

Also keep in mind that McNabb's offensive lines have generally *SUCKED* - we considered Thomas and Runyan good players, but as pass blockers, they routinely let McNabb get killed (28 sacks in 6 games his rookie year WOW, then 45 and 39 in full seasons, then 43 in 2003, then 44 in 2007 - he's never taken less than 30 sacks in a full season, and only once had a sack percentage over 6%).

I'm starting to think the Elway - McNabb comparisons are more apt than I realized...but McNabb arguably has had a better career to date than Elway had when Shanahan got there.

Players whose careers were of similar quality and shape:

10 Joe Montana*, Troy Aikman*, Drew Bledsoe, Mark Brunell, Boomer Esiason, John Elway*, Terry Bradshaw*, Ken Anderson, Steve McNair, Jim Kelly*

[Oldskool]

I thought he said Hicks at RT not Heyer? Is the thought still horrid if MS decides BMW is playing RG?

If Hicks is at RT then BMW is at RG, a scary thought for a ZBS scheme.

If Hicks plays RG, then Heyer would be at RT, and that boy is a broken turnstile.