Can our OL compete?

[darrelgreenie]

I'm happy with the McNabb move, we have the franchise QB we've been looking for and only gave up a 2nd and a 3rd rounder next year.

But, in order to reap the benefits of a franchise QB we must upgrade the OL.

I think our OL has already improved with Heyer being healthy, Mike Williams returning in better football condition (at guard) and the addition of Artis Hicks as a challenge or insurance for Heyer and Williams.

I also think the fact that we haven't signed Levi Jones (the 3/4th worst OT in football last year) is plus.

You be the GM what's your speculation on how can we move the pieces around and improve the OL?

Below is my take what's your?

Draft this man: Improved play from this man: a healthy and improving:

Competition/Reserve:

[authentic]

I'm for upgrading the Oline in the draft, don't get me wrong. But i'm of the belief that a great QB automatically upgrades the Oline. Imagine how may plays Mcnabb has made in his career when the line has broken down. I'm certain the reason why Shanny went after DM because of his familiarity with the system and the fact that he's able to read defenses and get the ball out of his hands quickly, 2 attributes that you need as a WC quarterback. My :2cents:

[UK_HOG]

The OL in the opening post will see us in big trouble. I personally think we need to get hold of at least 2 more starters from the draft or trade/free agency. (A left tackle and a right tackle)

[J-bomb]

I'm for upgrading the Oline in the draft, don't get me wrong. But i'm of the belief that a great QB automatically upgrades the Oline. Imagine how may plays Mcnabb has made in his career when the line has broken down. I'm certain the reason why Shanny went after DM because of his familiarity with the system and the fact that he's able to read defenses and get the ball out of his hands quickly, 2 attributes that you need as a WC quarterback. My :2cents:

I agree with you I don't feel the OL is that bad and with some additions in the draft whether it be early or later we will be ok this year. With a probowl Qb and a Offensive scheme that will have defensives on there toes our Oline will do fine!

[wvtbred]

Shanny has always had good olines so I expect nothing less especially with a Pro Bowl QB back there!

[Oldfan]

McNabb's wheels are gone -- which means that his remaining strength, his ability to throw deep, makes him more dependent on O line protection than Jason Campbell. Since we gave up two draft picks for McNabb, that lowers the odds of upgrading the O line.

As for hoping that the current group improves, we did that in the 2009 offseason too.

[asnpcwiz]

not in the national football league...maybe in my little nephew's flag football league though!

[mdpell]

I'm for upgrading the Oline in the draft, don't get me wrong. But i'm of the belief that a great QB automatically upgrades the Oline. Imagine how may plays Mcnabb has made in his career when the line has broken down. I'm certain the reason why Shanny went after DM because of his familiarity with the system and the fact that he's able to read defenses and get the ball out of his hands quickly, 2 attributes that you need as a WC quarterback. My :2cents:

Agreed. I don't think our OL is going to be great or even good. But i think (especially if we draft a LT in the first either at 4 or trading down) we can have a servicable enough O-line to compete.

[TheLongshot]

I'm not going to answer this because we haven't finished getting players yet. Based on what we have right now, I don't think so. But, such things can change with the draft and FA.

As Oldfan says, McNabb isn't going to be able to avoid pressure as much as he used to. He long stopped being dangerous with his legs. While he isn't a statue back there, he's going to need the protection to get anything done in this offense. Not to mention that he's been rather fragile in recent years.

[CG]

Assuming we get a top tackle, then maybe. Even then there's going to be a glaring weakness on one side of the line. All signs point to us trying to get out of that #4 pick and picking up another second rounder, but we need two tackles. Hicks should be the starter at RG right now. If Big Mike AND Heyer are starting, then this line will be even worse than it was last year, which is saying something.

[trio]

i think that you can build from a base of Artis Hicks and Dockery at guard (I think Hicks is a better starting guard than Williams) and Rabach in the center

so the concern is tackles....honestly, and I never thought I'd say this, I'd be interested to see if they take a look at Flozell Adams to play RIGHT tackle....a lot of his false start penalties over the last few years are because he had lost a step on the periphery, and was twitchy...on the right side he would be paired against much lesser pass rushers than on the right side, and I think is an immediate improvement over heyor

then you bring in okung for lt

and yes, you can compete

[wvtbred]

McNabb's wheels are gone -- which means that his remaining strength, his ability to throw deep, makes him more dependent on O line protection than Jason Campbell. Since we gave up two draft picks for McNabb, that lowers the odds of upgrading the O line.

As for hoping that the current group improves, we did that in the 2009 offseason too.

Actually I think he has better wheels then Doug Williams had when he came here.

[wilsonian]

I don't think Okung will fall to us. I see the Lions taking him.

[#98QBKiller]

McNabb's play will elevate the current OL. And if we keep McNabb I expect us to draft Okung if he's there or attempt to trade down and draft a few OL if he's not there at #4.

But either way I think just having McNabb will make our offensive line look much better than it did w/ Campbell behind center. I'm not taking anything away from Campbell having to struggle w/ a decimated line last year, but McNabb is a much, much better QB.

[Oldfan]

Actually I think he has better wheels then Doug Williams had when he came here.

He does. Doug would have been dogmeat without the Hogs.

[MGutta]

I think McNabb's ability to stretch the field and make quick decisions will definitely take pressure off the o-line in itself.

I'm not saying don't draft o-line by any means. (If we don't come out with 2 lineman from this draft, I'll freak out). What I'm saying is that, the moves that have been made, plus the moves we will make are going to make the line better AND inflate their play, so to speak. So a double plus.

It will "compete", and it will be no lower than 20th in the league. Book it.

Edit:

McNabb's play will elevate the current OL. And if we keep McNabb I expect us to draft Okung if he's there or attempt to trade down and draft a few OL if he's not there at #4.

But either way I think just having McNabb will make our offensive line look much better than it did w/ Campbell behind center. I'm not taking anything away from Campbell having to struggle w/ a decimated line last year, but McNabb is a much, much better QB.

+1 Beat me to it!!!!

[grego]

I agree with you I don't feel the OL is that bad

i agree with authentic that mcnabb will help the line a bit, but i'm curious as to why you think they werent that bad? we had 2 scrubs off the street (one of them out of football for a couple of years with a severe weight issue) starting for us. heyer was playing hurt all year (i agree that if he's healthy he will be better). our 2 best linemen went down (samuels and thomas). somehow our center appeared overmatched most of the year, but he got a nice contract. i think dock was our only passable linemen. our tackles, according to PFF were in the bottom 7 in the entire league.

i think our line was probably the worst in the league.

[Darth Tater]

The question here is CAN not WILL. We CAN compete if we take at least 1 high pick OL (that'll now have to be our first unless we want to sacrifice some more picks in 2011 to get picks this year or have a player trade of our own in the works). There's also always the outside shot that some player shows unknown ability but that's nothing you want to rely on.

[lou4gehrig]

The offensive line last year wasn't great obviously, but it wasn't the worst in the league. I think the O-line issues are exaggerated by the media and the over excited fan base.

Think about it:

1. We had Samuels and Thomas out the whole season.

2. Other plays like Mike Williams, Levi Jones, Heyer, etc were okay, and hurt on occassion.

3. We had a semi-amateur head coach in Zorn who was clearly over his head.

4. We changed play calling duties in the middle of the season.

5. We had a quarterback who has a slow release and sack prone by nature.

Yet we still ranked 16th in passing yards and 22in rush yards while giving up top 5 most sacks. Not great, but not the worst in the league. I'd say below average O-line with the worst combination of variables possible.

So think about what's changed:

1. New head coach known for developing great offensive lines with non-premiere talent.

2. New offensive coordinator known for the same.

3. A better quarterback who can avoid the rush and make plays.

4. Likely a stud LT in the first round of the draft.

5. Some free agent depth that will add to the corps we currently have.

How can the O-line not improve dramatically? I think people just need something to complain about really. Obviously Shanahan is going to fix the O-line and it will be one of the top 10 in the league in no time. You don't need all first rounders to make a great O-line as many teams (Giants, Eagles, etc.) have shown.

[Timmy Smith]

(1) draft Okung, or Trent Williams, or Brian Bulaga - whomever is the best available - when we pick at #4

(2) trade Campbell and use the pick on another lineman.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Right now? Our o-line is flat out terrible.

If we draft Okung, we can compete. But our right side is highly suspect. Not a fan of Rabach. Williams/Rinehart/whoever are prospects, not sure things. Heyer is a bum. Where does Artis Hicks come in? Hopefully he's better than Heyer.

[HighOnHendrix]

Actually I think he has better wheels then Doug Williams had when he came here.

He does. Doug would have been dogmeat without the Hogs.

Exactly. I don't think I need to point out the order of magnitude better that the '91 line was than what we have in-house right now...:beatdeadhorse:

[HighOnHendrix]

(2) trade Campbell and use the pick on another lineman.

And/or Portis. How many RBs do we need? I'd love to see us get back into the second round, anywhere in the second.

[ADF]

With Heyer starting, you're doing nothing but competing for another top 5 draft pick. Shanahan wants to run the ball. It's been the key to his success as a coach. Heyer is a very poor run blocker.

Our best scenario would be for someone like Rinehart to win the RG job and move Hicks to RT. Dock has LG locked down. LT will most likely be a rookie and we'd be in great shape if he excels. Rabach is still a weakness. He'll need to be replaced at some point if we want to get our OL to the next level.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

I'm for upgrading the Oline in the draft, don't get me wrong. But i'm of the belief that a great QB automatically upgrades the Oline. Imagine how may plays Mcnabb has made in his career when the line has broken down. I'm certain the reason why Shanny went after DM because of his familiarity with the system and the fact that he's able to read defenses and get the ball out of his hands quickly, 2 attributes that you need as a WC quarterback. My :2cents:

Agreed. The Redskins had a terrible line last year, but that doesn't mean that all of the individual components on the line suck.

BMW and Rinehart were both playing relatively well until injury ended their seasons. You add in Hicks to battle at RG and RT and that's solid competition. BTW, Hicks isn't terrible as people think, just because he was a back up people think he stinks, he started a few games on an already solid Minny and held his own, however Minne-snow-ta has had a very good o-line for the past few years and Hicks was mainly forced into a reserve role due to that, Hicks could be a solid starter on most o-lines though.

Rabach will be average, and if he has solid RG/LG play he could play slightly better than average. Dock is fine. We also have Lichtensteiger who played a number of positions on the line, started with good results under Shanny in Denver, so he could provide solid competition.

There's also Edwin Williams who, from all accounts, was showing promise at Center just a bit raw as a rook. We will undoubtedly draft a LT, possible we trade down to get more picks which will likely be used for more OL, not to mention the UDFA pick ups that Shanny loves, you add in the forgotten man Heyer, who knows what we'll get from him but if he can start to reach his potential he's definitely a solid RT.

With all of that considered I think we can field at the very least an average O-line, and with McNabbs ability to get rid of the ball quickly, read defenses and extend plays to make things happen (especially) down field I think he can help mask a lot of the ols deficiencies, and the next year if we focus on the OL a bit more they will be on their way to being a young above average group.