FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan

[aREDSKIN]

Employers will quickly figure out that paying the fine will be cheaper than paying for their employees HC.

So on top of premiums rising and doctors quitting, we're going to have employers backing out. Demand will skyrocket, and costs will have to follow.

And just think of the "quality" of care one will ATTEMPT to RECEIVE under this scenario. It's an unmitigated disaster just waiting to happen.

[Bliz]

The dems will rue the day they did this.

"Rue the day ?? Who talks like that?"

~ Real Genius

Classic Movie. Damn youtube for not having my clip

[JimboDaMan]

Imagine what happens when 45 percent of doctors retire rather than deal with the bureaucracy.

Sounds like an argument in favor of single-payer.

65% of the physicians polled said they oppose the proposed Obamacare plan. 45% of the physicians polled said that they would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement, if the plan were to become

Maybe you are onto something. It seems that doctoring is such an amazing cash cow that almost half of all physicians are so well off they can immediately retire.

[JimboDaMan]

Employers will quickly figure out that paying the fine will be cheaper than paying for their employees HC.

So raise the fine.

So on top of premiums rising and doctors quitting, we're going to have employers backing out. Demand will skyrocket, and costs will have to follow.

Doesn't sound like you have much faith in the marketplace. Employers won't fear losing people because their benefits suck? Employees won't be free to take their labor to an employer offering better compensation? Perhaps stronger unions are what you are seeking.

[Kilmer17]

Sounds like an argument in favor of single-payer.

Maybe you are onto something. It seems that doctoring is such an amazing cash cow that almost half of all physicians are so well off they can immediately retire.

They'd leave for that as well. Thats why single payor countries have month long wait lists for simple procedures.

And yes, Doctors make a sick living. I have no problem with that. Their schools cost the most, take the longest to complete and are the hardest. It's designed that way so the burnout dude in the backrow of your algebra class in 10th grade doesnt end up being your neurosurgeon later in life.

[HailYeah]

Will rise compared to what? The current costs or the compared with how much they will rise if we do nothing is I think the more important question.

This.

And I thought people realized that the only way to ensure premiums are lowered is to introduce a public option.

But it's too late baby, now, it's too late.

[JimboDaMan]

This.

And I thought people realized that the only way to ensure premiums are lowered is to introduce a public option.

But it's too late baby, now, it's too late.

Oh, they do realize that.

Somehow opponents killed it by saying premiums for the public option would be too low, driving private insurance out of business.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sounds like an argument in favor of single-payer.

Maybe you are onto something. It seems that doctoring is such an amazing cash cow that almost half of all physicians are so well off they can immediately retire.

Single payer system would not fix this particular issue.

[helptheSKINS]

Oh, they do realize that.

Somehow opponents killed it by saying premiums for the public option would be too low, driving private insurance out of business.

Please tell me who the genius is that said that. Who are these opponents? Oh, and how exactly would single payer lower premiums? How would it lower health care costs?

[December90]

Even people with no brain know that insurance companies will seize any opportunity to raise premiums. Especially since the government has promised to essentially subsidize health care to some extent. Basically national health care allows the insurance companies to extort money from the federal government. Anyone surprised?

If you don't like the insurance companies, you are free to pay for your own health care out of pocket without involving the middle man if you wish. then again the insurance companies are not the EVIL that they are made out to be, they are in the business of selling risk management/risk mitigation. They are in business to make a profit, but I challenge you to run an economy off business that do not make profits.

the demonization of the insurance companies by the Left Wing Nutjob in the Whitehouse and the Left Wing Nutjob Speaker of the House simple shows the lengths that the Left Wing Nutjobs will go to tear down Capitalism so they can replace it with their Socialism.

[December90]

Oh, they do realize that.

Somehow opponents killed it by saying premiums for the public option would be too low, driving private insurance out of business.

Driving premiums too low is a monopolistic tactic to eliminate your competition. When you have the power to pay for what you want off the backs of others, no tactic is off limits.

If you don't like Blue Cross You can go to Aetna, if you don't like Aetna, you can go to other insurance providers. When our new Socialism takes over and the capitalist companies are driven out of business, who will you be able to turn to when you don't like your Government coverage.

[Destino]

Imagine what happens when 45 percent of doctors retire rather than deal with the bureaucracy.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2185433/65_of_doctors_say_no_to_obamacare_45.html

65% of the physicians polled said they oppose the proposed Obamacare plan. 45% of the physicians polled said that they would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement, if the plan were to become

How many would consider working later hours, weekends, and taking steps to ensure their patients enjoy their visits? These people aren't hurting as evidenced by the fact they do nothing a normal business does to secure and keep clients. They can take their ****ing and shove it because I don't buy it for one second.

[JimboDaMan]

Single payer system would not fix this particular issue.

Which issue are you referring to? My single payer comment was in reference to excess bureaucracy, not Dr. incomes. And while single-payer is not a guarantee that paperwork will be more streamlined than having to deal with a morass of insurance companies all with different rules and requirements, if carries some real potential.

[helptheSKINS]

How many would consider working later hours, weekends, and taking steps to ensure their patients enjoy their visits? These people aren't hurting as evidenced by the fact they do nothing a normal business does to secure and keep clients. They can take their ****ing and shove it because I don't buy it for one second.

So in another thread you are complaining about people working too many hours and not enjoying life but for doctors you are all for it?

[Thiebear]

Something this important should be voted on..

not a Deem and Pass Slaughterhouse rule duck and cover bill.

in 1998 Nancy and Slaughter saluted the line item veto from the Court saying: Yes the House and Senate vote on the same bill....?

[Destino]

So in another thread you are complaining about people working too many hours and not enjoying life but for doctors you are all for it?

I wasn't complaining people work to long. I was saying that it's a bad way to live your life, which I firmly think it is.

As for this topic a doctors office doesn't have to consist of one doctor. They could provide superior service and more convenience without being slaves. I've had to go to the emergency room before because I couldn't get an appointment with my doctor or because I needed to see one past 6 o'clock and had no choice. How much does that add to the cost of health care when people in my situation are doing this all over the country?

My observation when it comes to doctor's offices is that they don't act at all like any other business that depends on clients to operate. If anything they go to great pains to make the experience better for themselves and more annoying for their patients. Why do you think you wait in the waiting room so long? Because they over book so the doctor can see as many patient is as short a time as possible. I would love to see the medical profession have to suffer through free market influences. Sadly they will always have insurance separating their true cost from the consumer's feeling of it.

[twa]

How many would consider working later hours, weekends, and taking steps to ensure their patients enjoy their visits? These people aren't hurting as evidenced by the fact they do nothing a normal business does to secure and keep clients. They can take their ****ing and shove it because I don't buy it for one second.

Perhaps we should open up practicing medicine by allowing RN's or medical assistants to provide many services w/o a Dr present?(and write prescips)

Would the risks outweigh the benefits?

[JimboDaMan]

Something this important should be voted on..

not a Deem and Pass Slaughterhouse rule duck and cover bill.

in 1998 Nancy and Slaughter saluted the line item veto from the Court saying: Yes the House and Senate vote on the same bill....?

I agree with this. Whatever the merits or lack thereof, it should not be enacted through maneuver.

Not that this shows Democrats to be somehow lower forms of life than Republicans. The Republicans used D&P dozens of times. Similarly, George Bush made scores of recess appointments, another maneuver to skirt the problems of an up-and-down vote. That asshat John Bolten became UN ambassador through such a scam. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now.

[Burgold]

Right now, the premiums are going up no matter what. Obama's plan isn't good enough. It probably is still better than what we have today. Disclosure: I haven't read all 2,000 pages although I am halfway through Al Saunders' playbook.

[Midnight Judges]

I'm sure it was an accident that this part

Obama plan only slows premiums rise

was left out of the OP.

[Thiebear]

Read this 7 times and tell me what you see wrong:

Their costs would go down because more young people would be joining the risk pool and because insurance company overhead costs would be lower in the more efficient system Obama wants to create.

heres a hint:

More Efficient system??? Please give examples from previous Gov't massive projects of 'more efficient'.

AND

Costs will go down due to young people joining?

Then they talk about saving 3% over normal increases in 2016...

A trillion to 2 trillion dollars to save 3% in 2016?

[NewCliche21]

Right now, the premiums are going up no matter what. Obama's plan isn't good enough. It probably is still better than what we have today. Disclosure: I haven't read all 2,000 pages although I am halfway through Al Saunders' playbook.

That's what happens when the public option goes away because the idiots on the right (read that as the idiots who happen to be on the right, not that all on the right are idiots!) who think that this is a government takeover were too up their own asses to realize that competition = lower premiums.

Or they're just all politicians looking for votes and campaign donations from insurance companies, because they are.

[SnyderShrugged]

That's what happens when the public option goes away because the idiots on the right (read that as the idiots who happen to be on the right, not that all on the right are idiots!) who think that this is a government takeover were too up their own asses to realize that competition = lower premiums.

Or they're just all politicians looking for votes and campaign donations from insurance companies, because they are.

read this thread and the article very carefully.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=319531

Think about what it means about what you are saying.

If you still have the same stance, you are being intellectually dishonest.