Do you think health care reform will pass?

[Baculus]

I believe the day is almost upon us when we'll know where the Democratic reform legislation will pass. Most of you know my opinion -- I support reform, and I oppose the Republican's insistence in obfuscating the issue and using untruthful representation to the objective of defeating the Democrats, and Pres. Obama, in their efforts.

So, will the status quo stand, or will legislation change the current system?

(I have been away for a while and did not see any recent threads on this issue, so I thought I would bring the debate up to speed.)

[twa]

I believe they will Rahm;) thru some form of reform

and pay dearly for it.

Same opinion I had a yr ago:silly:

[Baculus]

I believe they will Rahm;) thru some form of reform

and pay dearly for it.

Same opinion I had a yr ago:silly:

Oh no! Did you really use a Fox News/GOP talking point? :saber:

Here is why the GOP are being dishonest: No one is "ramming" this bill through Congress. It was passed in the House via a majority vote and it passed with a super-majority in the Senate. And reconciliation, which has been used by the Republicans on major legislation, is being used on parts of the bill (and not the whole bill, since both the House and Senate version of the bills had much of the same language).

When the US public realizes that the health care reform is not the "end of the US," that it is not a "government takeover," and that "death panels" are not killing grandma, when they realize the GOP have NOT been honest and earnest in their efforts, then support for reform will increase. When they aren't being scared by GOP efforts, and when they are polled in individual parts of the bill, the average American, in fact, supports reform.

I still don't think, after all this time, you know what's in the bill. It's a shame!

[Fergasun]

Not gonna pass. As soon as the Democrats figured they could pass it, it would get done.

I support either a full on 100% European style health care reform OR

I support either a full on 100% "free market" health care reform bill

I think both of those options would be radical changes. This bill is clearly the status quo plus now the Government can pester you. suuuuck...

[Ax]

Oh no! Did you really use a Fox News/GOP talking point?

Not that twa can't speak for himself, but I think it's hilarious for you to accuse him of using "Fox News/GOP" talking points, by using ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/MSNBC/Democrat talking points.

This is a bad bill. Just ask Howard Dean.

Unfortunately, it'll probably pass, and give the term, cluster****, increased comedic value.

[nonniey]

I believe the day is almost upon us when we'll know where the Democratic reform legislation will pass. Most of you know my opinion -- I support reform, and I oppose the Republican's insistence in obfuscating the issue and using untruthful representation to the objective of defeating the Democrats, and Pres. Obama, in their efforts.

So, will the status quo stand, or will legislation change the current system?

(I have been away for a while and did not see any recent threads on this issue, so I thought I would bring the debate up to speed.)

But I'm sure you fully support the Democrats insistance on "obfuscating the issue and using untruthful representation" for the objective of passing this health care bill?

Oh and yes I think they'll pass it.

[Redskins Diehard]

What I find interesting is the fact that the party that could do absolutely nothing to stop the health care bill(or any other bill for that matter) continues to be blamed for it not being passed by some out there. I don't think it will pass in any significant form. I think that because I do not think the majority party wants to have responsibility for it. Much easier for them to spew the talking point that "if it wasn't for the other guys obfuscating this issue we would have gotten it done and everyone would be better off". I suspect Democratic leadership was more relieved than anyone that the election in Mass turned out the way it did. This way they can still blame the party that has 41 members in the Senate.

I suspect that something will be passed. Enough that they can say we passed something because it would be a tremendous failure to no get something done on your calling card issue when there was nothing that the opposition could do to stop you.

[Burgold]

I think something will be passed because after a year something needs to get passed. Otherwise, they'll look like a bunch of bufoons. More, something needs to get passed. I'm a bit concerned that it won't be the right thing. We are desperately in need of genuine and significant reform. And neither the game playing, political power mongers, evil propaganda junkies of the Republican Party or the greedy, gutless, corrupt cowards of the Democratic Party are really aiming for that.

I'm both overstating and understating how contemptable both parties have acted in recent months (or years)

[Redskins Diehard]

I'm both overstating and understating how contemptable both parties have acted in recent months (or years)

I would stick with the "years" part and not the "months". In my opinion the R's biggest motivation really has nothing to do with helping health care(even if they think the best they could do to help health care is to leave it like it is) and has everything to do with proving the D's can't get anything done. They can't "lead". I think an objective observer would feel like that has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I think at this point the Democrats are perferctly willing to not have health care pass because their point will be "look at them they (insert Baculus talking points) to health care". They don't care about you so put us in power again. I think the Democrats are relieved to not have the veto proof majority...now they have an excuse that their followers are clearly believing in as to why they can't get anything done.

[Burgold]

I think there's truth to that. I think it also points to the fact that the Republicans serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever anymore. The Democrats can create gridlock all on their own. They are their own opposition party.

[twa]

I agree they both suck and I'm not that objective.

Quote Bac

"I still don't think, after all this time, you know what's in the bill. It's a shame!"

Is it any wonder when no one really does?

Perhaps they should fill in the blanks before attempting to pass something,then they might find some support...instead of the 2-1 public opposition.

[Veretax]

I believe they will Rahm;) thru some form of reform

and pay dearly for it.

Same opinion I had a yr ago:silly:

This is what I'm thinking. Public opinion has moved definitively against this bill, period. Trying to paint Republicans as the bad guy, sorry doesn't make much different. The R's could not show up and the dems could still pass the bill basically. This bill should not pass, but I think that the democrats are going to try to weasel it in.

[Midnight Judges]

Democrats are going to lose a lot of seats in congress this Novermber whether they pass the bill or not. In 1993 the Democrats failed to pass the bill and they lost big time. So I think the notion that Democrats will "pay dearly" for passing the bill is not only false, but it's been proven false under these exact same circumstances.

The political pendulum swings inevitably. Democrats should at least make the most of their power and pass the bill. Republicans used reconciliations for Bush's deficit give-away, welfare reform, and various other bills. Republicans set the precedent of using reconciliation. Democrats need to grow a pair and give Republicans a dose of their own medicine.

[Veretax]

The author of reconciliation, Robert C Byrd has even said reconciliation was never intended for a bill like healthcare.

[twa]

Democrats need to grow a pair and give Republicans a dose of their own medicine.

A recipe for success if I ever heard one...IF the voters like the finished product.

So what's the hold up?...waiting for the testicles to drop?

[LaxBuddy21]

Democrats need to grow a pair and give Republicans a dose of their own medicine.

And this kind of ignorant comment is what is wrong with our political system. Stop with the stupid effing us against them mentality. We are all Americans. We all want whats best for America. That should not include trying to stick it to the other side. I really wish we could stop thinking this way about our politics. Lets blame the other guy or stick it to the other guy. I HATE POLITICAL PARTIES! They need to be abolished and we need to go back to being Americans working for America. I would guess about half the people in this country will not seriously listen to opinions from the other political party. Sure they will listen but only to figure out how to tell them they are wrong not actually listen and discuss a real solution. And our elected officials mimic this in Washington. Its all about screwing the other guy over and tearing them down so you can get your guys into office next election. When the hell are people going to stand up and not deal with this BS any more? I cannot be the only one who is absolutely sick and disgusted by it!

[twa]

When the hell are people going to stand up and not deal with this BS any more? I cannot be the only one who is absolutely sick and disgusted by it!

GOOOH

http://goooh.com/home.aspx

apparently not.

[Redskins Diehard]

The political pendulum swings inevitably. Democrats should at least make the most of their power and pass the bill. Republicans used reconciliations for Bush's deficit give-away, welfare reform, and various other bills. Republicans set the precedent of using reconciliation. Democrats need to grow a pair and give Republicans a dose of their own medicine.

That last sentence in my opinion is what is completely wrong with the system. And very telling about what is important to some people in the country today. It is more about giving the other party a dose of their own medicine instead of doing what is right for the country. Democrats do need to grow a pair and if they think that their health care philosophy is the right one then go ahead and do it. Regardless of "propoganda" and Glenn Beck and whoever else will ridicule them for it. Try this little thing we call leadership and doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do....or at least because you believe it is the right thing to do

[DieselPwr44]

Republicans used reconciliations for Bush's deficit give-away, welfare reform, and various other bills. Republicans set the precedent of using reconciliation. Democrats need to grow a pair and give Republicans a dose of their own medicine.

So........

Two wrongs would make a right?

Nice..................

[DieselPwr44]

The author of reconciliation, Robert C Byrd has even said reconciliation was never intended for a bill like healthcare.

"Is you is o' is you ain't mah constituency?"

[alexey]

Not that twa can't speak for himself, but I think it's hilarious for you to accuse him of using "Fox News/GOP" talking points, by using ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/MSNBC/Democrat talking points.

Might as well add "reality" to the list of his talking points

[alexey]

So........

Two wrongs would make a right?

Nice..................

He may be trying to address the "rarely used extremely uncommon nuclear option" language that GOP is using to describe reconciliation.

[twa]

Might as well add "reality" to the list of his talking points

I already added the reality of the consequences if voters don't approve:)

I can also add the reality of the proposed savings are false.

There is also the reality perceived partisanship.

But I'm not sure Congresscritters live in the same reality we do,hence the reason I believe they will Rahm;) something through.

Don't hate me cause they steal my lines :saber:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Does someone want to give me a brief summary of the bill they are trying to pass? What exactly will change?

As you can tell, I do my best to stay uninformed.

And I'm with Lax for the most part...I hate how almost every issue comes down to aligning with a party rather than thinking about each specific issue individually.

[Special K]

My guess is that they are going to push something through come hell or high water. I will also wagerif they do so, they will pay dearly for it in the upcoming elections. Do they have the balls to do this...we shall see!

I think there's truth to that. I think it also points to the fact that the Republicans serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever anymore. The Democrats can create gridlock all on their own. They are their own opposition party.

Lol, in-fighting...it's all the rage these days!