santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 QB win/loss record is the most useless stat in sportsteams win or lose, not just one player. seriously, arguing a QB win/loss record is just silly, and shows a lack of football knowledge. Bingo. We aren't talking about starting pitchers here, we are talking about QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Bingo. We aren't talking about starting pitchers here, we are talking about QBs. Apple and oranges. Starting pitchers only play every 4th or 5th game. If that was the case Jason would only be about 4-8 but I guess only having to see him start once a month is a step in the right direction. Also no one I know of is happy to see Jason starting or coming back into a game. No we don't want to see anyone hurt we just want someone else back there that we believe in, PERIOD. As for the oline issue I guess the oline played well during all of Jason's wins and sucked during all of his losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAMEC0CK Skin Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Everybody on this team with the exception of Haynesworth probably has a career losing record. Should we get rid of the whole team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'm glad this topic has finally come up for discussion. The way I see it, there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Apple and oranges. Starting pitchers only play every 4th or 5th game. If that was the case Jason would only be about 4-8 but I guess only having to see him start once a month is a step in the right direction.Also no one I know of is happy to see Jason starting or coming back into a game. No we don't want to see anyone hurt we just want someone else back there that we believe in, PERIOD. As for the oline issue I guess the oline played well during all of Jason's wins and sucked during all of his losses. It is apples and oranges. That was my point. In 2006 the Redskins had one of the worst defenses ever assembled, can we hold those losses against JC? Last I checked there were 22 starters (not counting special teams) on a football team. To hold one man accountable for the record is just not right. Suisham single handedly cost the Redskins a couple losses...are you going to blame JC for those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I agree with those saying that you can't place the win/losses on JC alone. It's a team sport. 12 of those losses came from playing behind the worse OL in football last season and you could probably say the same for those losses in 2006. Also if i counted right 21 of those losses were by 7 points or less. Imagine what his record could be playing behind a good OL Look, that is a pathetic excuse. Green Bay and Pittsburgh OL's are terrible. But the difference is the QB play. Sorry, that is the way it is. Campbell simply can't read a defense. He misses too many WR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 QB win/loss record is the most useless stat in sportsteams win or lose, not just one player. seriously, arguing a QB win/loss record is just silly, and shows a lack of football knowledge. absolutely! only the stats that support your opinions matter! and, of course, win/loss means nothing when considering...ohhhh.....coaching performance. this line of thinking is another in a long history of banal cliches. won/lost records happen for a reason(s). people are held accountable. now...folks may disagree on first/second causes.....but to argue that the one variable that matters most over the long haul is meaningless reflects your own biases more than anything else. "it's a team game!"...escape hatch for the idea challenged! pssst......don't tell anyone...teams are composed of idividuals. individual skill sets, talents, motivation, personal histories.....matter. yes....in a sport like football it has to be orchestrated into a larger whole. but it should strike most as obvious that the underlying reasons the dan Snyder's of the world pay more for the Deions, Alberts...is because individual talent matters....individual contribution counts. the dynamic in these threads is comical beyond belief: - JC suppporter: "BS...he ranked near the middle of the pack in the NFL. His QB stats are more than good and are trending up." - JC supporter: "BS....won/lost stats mean nothing. It's a team game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since a Fetus Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The simplest way to measure London Fletcher is Wins and Losses. Yes I agree tackles, sacks, and interceptions can factor in but at the end of the day it's all about wins and losses and looking into it these are the facts behind Fletcher’s record as a Redskins starter. 2007 Fletcher as starter 9-7 2008 Fletcher as starter 8-8 2009 Fletcher as starter 4-12 That makes Fletcher’s Redskins win/loss record at 21 wins and 27 losses So to all those Fletcher supporters I challenge you to defend that fact. 21-27 is inexcusable. These are the hard facts. For those fans out there that want to continue with that I ask you why? What has Fletcher shown that gets you excited about keeping him? Yes, the man can make a hit. That's great if he's a boxer but how often do you see Patrick Willis make a hit? Is it because Patrick Willis has the greatest defensive tackles ever or is it just because he's smart enough to play the position better? Fletcher might be a warrior and if I'm Allen and Shanahan I'm singing his praise right now just in hopes of upselling his trade value. But the fact is Fletcher is 21-27 as a starter. The last great LB we had that helped us to the playoffs in back to back years was Kurt Gouveia. Gouv suited up from us from 87 to 94 during the time we had winning seasons from 89 to 92 and 3 straight playoff appearances along with the Super Bowl in between as well. MLB play is and always will be a measuring stick of success. And the bottom line is Fletcher is not worthy of us sticking with him anymore. For all those Fletcher supporters out there give me reasons and give me hope why we should stick with him? What has he done to make you believe that he can get us back to winning football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 and, of course, win/loss means nothing when considering...ohhhh.....coaching performance. Terrible point (no offense). That is probably the #1 thing you base coaching performance on. It is a coaches job to make sure his players perform at a high level. He's got to come up with the gameplan, and in most cases he is the one who assembles his coaching staff, and has a HUSE say in who the team drafts/trades for/signs in free agency. W/L record is much more an indication of the coach's performance, rather than an indication of the QB's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasthunder Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I concour with others, win/loss records is not a true guage for judging a qb. It is like alot of other stats that can be used as weapons to support a persons argument as to which side he is on. To me the best indicator of a quality qb is - how many times he has rallyed the offense to secure a victory after being behind in the score. Thats when a true quality quarterback shows what he is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The simplest way to measure London Fletcher is Wins and Losses. Yes I agree tackles, sacks, and interceptions can factor in but at the end of the day it's all about wins and losses and looking into it these are the facts behind Fletcher’s record as a Redskins starter.2007 Fletcher as starter 9-7 2008 Fletcher as starter 8-8 2009 Fletcher as starter 4-12 That makes Fletcher’s Redskins win/loss record at 21 wins and 27 losses So to all those Fletcher supporters I challenge you to defend that fact. 21-27 is inexcusable. These are the hard facts. For those fans out there that want to continue with that I ask you why? What has Fletcher shown that gets you excited about keeping him? Yes, the man can make a hit. That's great if he's a boxer but how often do you see Patrick Willis make a hit? Is it because Patrick Willis has the greatest defensive tackles ever or is it just because he's smart enough to play the position better? Fletcher might be a warrior and if I'm Allen and Shanahan I'm singing his praise right now just in hopes of upselling his trade value. But the fact is Fletcher is 21-27 as a starter. The last great LB we had that helped us to the playoffs in back to back years was Kurt Gouveia. Gouv suited up from us from 87 to 94 during the time we had winning seasons from 89 to 92 and 3 straight playoff appearances along with the Super Bowl in between as well. MLB play is and always will be a measuring stick of success. And the bottom line is Fletcher is not worthy of us sticking with him anymore. For all those Fletcher supporters out there give me reasons and give me hope why we should stick with him? What has he done to make you believe that he can get us back to winning football? see when i go to www.pro-football-reference.com and look up QBs, theres a record as a starter for them listed underneath. they dont have that for any other position. i recommend you email them and tell them this revelation you stumbled upon. let them know to include W/L for middle linebackers, or exclude it for QBs. im sure theyd really agree with you. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The simplest way to measure London Fletcher is Wins and Losses. Yes I agree tackles, sacks, and interceptions can factor in but at the end of the day it's all about wins and losses and looking into it these are the facts behind Fletcher’s record as a Redskins starter.2007 Fletcher as starter 9-7 2008 Fletcher as starter 8-8 2009 Fletcher as starter 4-12 That makes Fletcher’s Redskins win/loss record at 21 wins and 27 losses So to all those Fletcher supporters I challenge you to defend that fact. 21-27 is inexcusable. These are the hard facts. For those fans out there that want to continue with that I ask you why? What has Fletcher shown that gets you excited about keeping him? Yes, the man can make a hit. That's great if he's a boxer but how often do you see Patrick Willis make a hit? Is it because Patrick Willis has the greatest defensive tackles ever or is it just because he's smart enough to play the position better? Fletcher might be a warrior and if I'm Allen and Shanahan I'm singing his praise right now just in hopes of upselling his trade value. But the fact is Fletcher is 21-27 as a starter. The last great LB we had that helped us to the playoffs in back to back years was Kurt Gouveia. Gouv suited up from us from 87 to 94 during the time we had winning seasons from 89 to 92 and 3 straight playoff appearances along with the Super Bowl in between as well. MLB play is and always will be a measuring stick of success. And the bottom line is Fletcher is not worthy of us sticking with him anymore. For all those Fletcher supporters out there give me reasons and give me hope why we should stick with him? What has he done to make you believe that he can get us back to winning football? Oh man, I hope you are being sarcastic???? LOL at your Patrick Willis point...he is the best in the game and what is his record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Terrible point (no offense). That is probably the #1 thing you base coaching performance on. It is a coaches job to make sure his players perform at a high level. He's got to come up with the gameplan, and in most cases he is the one who assembles his coaching staff, and has a HUSE say in who the team drafts/trades for/signs in free agency.W/L record is much more an indication of the coach's performance, rather than an indication of the QB's performance. brotha...that was the point I was making! (sarcasm) I agree with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Jesus ****ing Christ. Just shut up about this already. You people need lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 brotha...that was the point I was making! (sarcasm)I agree with you! Ooops, my bad Sometimes it is dangerous to flip back and forth from work and Extremeskins...I may misread a thing or two in both places...hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Jesus ****ing Christ. Just shut up about this already.You people need lives. LOL, says the man with 10,502 posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 see when i go to www.pro-football-reference.com and look up QBs, theres a record as a starter for them listed underneath. they dont have that for any other position.i recommend you email them and tell them this revelation you stumbled upon. let them know to include W/L for middle linebackers, or exclude it for QBs. im sure theyd really agree with you. LOL look...the point is that won/loss record is one metric among many. it's a team sport is a valid input. it's another variable. folks can vary on how all these are weighted. it's the universals ("they have no menaing") that are ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Ooops, my bad Sometimes it is dangerous to flip back and forth from work and Extremeskins...I may misread a thing or two in both places...hehehe no problem. we all do the same thing! hang in there and stick to your guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasthunder Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 MLB play is and always will be a measuring stick of success. And the bottom line is Fletcher is not worthy of us sticking with him anymore. For all those Fletcher supporters out there give me reasons and give me hope why we should stick with him? What has he done to make you believe that he can get us back to winning football? He is going to be the starting quarterback, the only position on the field that handles the ball 99.9 percent of the time on offense. :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Jesus ****ing Christ. Just shut up about this already.You people need lives. i need baseball season to start more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 look...the point is that won/loss record is one metric among many. it's a team sport is a valid input. it's another variable. folks can vary on how all these are weighted. it's the universals ("they have no menaing") that are ridiculous. id agree, and some QBs suffer from a poor w/l record due to other factors aside from themselves (sonny J is the perfect example of this, drew brees until this year was as well). to throw it out the window as merely "a team stat"; i agree is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 my problem is how do you have your best season stats wise and only 4-12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 my problem is how do you have your best season stats wise and only 4-12? Take a quick look-see at the running game...that'll give ya a good starting place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 No point in starting a new thread but I would like to throw this question out to people: What are the things that you see JC do well that make you think he will be a QB that can lead our team to the playoffs on a year in year out basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 LOL, says the man with 10,502 posts. Posts about a broad range of topics. Not 10,503 posts about this argument that's been going on since I've been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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