Jason Campbell's career win-loss record is 19-35

[fansince62]

my problem is how do you have your best season stats wise and only 4-12?

it's a good questoin...that has many answers pro/con. I'll let others argue that one.

I think the analysis over inherent flaws that limit future productivity IN ANY SYSTEM/ENVIRONMNT is more interesting...if harder to prove.

[gortiz]

in reading through all the responses in this thread I've yet to see any of the Campbell supporters provide actual evidence why he is worthy of staying as our starting QB.

The supporters either defend WIN/LOSS as a mirage and bring up points that you can't judge a QB by wins. Or they simply blame deficiencies of the offensive line as being the only logical reason why Campbell sucks.

I want Campbell supporters to point to actual evidence why he's good.

Post# 41 shows interesting stats about how bad he is when he has time to throw the ball yet for all the supporters of JC not one of them has put up strong evidence that shows why we should keep him.

I guess all the supporters of Campbell don't mind losing. Because how else can you explain all the excuses make for defending him. The purpose of this thread was simply to point out the obvious his WIN/LOSS record is terrible. The only time we've made the playoffs during his time here was when he got injured and the old Todd Collins stepped in his place.

So to all the supporters of Campbell give me evidence why we should keep him? And stop blaming Win/LOSS as a poor indicator and stop blaming the OLine or pointing out to Fletcher's Win/LOSs this is about Campbell and the fact that his deer in the headlights routine is getting old and our franchise needs to get a new QB in.

he has improved in just about every major statistical category assigned to his position every year

he has the respect of the locker. and NO, players are not going to come out and say he sucks, but unless you are recluse and do not know anything about when people are genuine and when people are BSing, you know JC has earned the respect of his teammates.

he has all the physical attributes you want in a QB. I for one, do not think he is dumb. He can make all the throws, he can move out of the pocket and his awareness in the pocket, albeit not be desired, is better.

he is tough - I DARE YOU TO F WITH THAT

He is not selfish and as a result, you can say he is a good locker room guy and good for the morale of the team

He is better than the average QB on throwing outside of the pocket and on the run.

yes ...with good coaching both pre and during the game ... HE HAS UPSIDE.

[Botched]

As long as we're saying wins and losses are irrelevant stats for QBs, I think we should also stop using completion percentage, passing touchdowns, and yardage. I mean, those are obviously team stats. QBs don't throw the ball to themselves you know.

[madpatty.com]

For those of you who keep asking for Campbell supporters to name something that he's good at: He can scramble well, even outrun some linebackers at times. He can take a hit. He can throw the ball pretty far. He can improve year to year.

JC is not especially accurate. JC is not especially good at reading defenses. JC is not especially good at finding the open guy when the protection breaks down. JC is not especially good at finding his third or fourth read.

In the words of La'Var Arrington, That is what it is.

The reality of the situation is that the Redskins are not a democracy. Shanny and Allen are expected to retain Campbell for the next season and that's it. Our debates and input have little to nothing to do with their personnel choices. If you have a problem with Campbell, then you already have a problem with Shanny and Allen's decision making (which you shouldn't).

[fansince62]

Jason Campbell is not an elite NFL quarterback and he'll never be.

Nobody starts off this average, and inconsistent and suddenly turns it on.

Not saying he can't have one or two really good years on a talented team with an excellent coach but he WILL NEVER lead a team a la Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, McNabb, Favre, Warner, etc.

now that we're not talking politics......you might be right........... I've debated this one myself cuz (what I suspect keeps others on his bandwagon) he does have his moments. he's not a buffoon ala ryan leaf. there have been QBs who turn it on later in their careers. this then boils down to: are his flaws correctable?

[Devastate]

Win/Loss record is a team stat.

Football is also a team game.

Win/loss record is also a reflection on the FO.

The bolded/highlighted portion precludes any open minded discussion.

You didn't know.. It's JC's fault the ST sucked, or the Defense gave up big plays or someone fumbled the ball.

[ntotoro]

my problem is how do you have your best season stats wise and only 4-12?

His best statistical season was still only good for mid-pack.

[Xero21]

London Fletcher's record as a Redskin is 21-27. That's a losing record.

Lets see Fletcher's pesky supporters try to support him now.

[Devastate]

QB win/loss record is the most useless stat in sports

teams win or lose, not just one player.

seriously, arguing a QB win/loss record is just silly, and shows a lack of football knowledge.

Being ignorant of a subject is ok, we can educate those guys.. But this goes a step further and shows a lack of football common sense.. Which can't be taught

[mistertim]

His best statistical season was still only good for mid-pack.

Very true, but he also put up those numbers behind easily one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL and without the benefit of a steady running game.

[fansince62]

why ...

were there any posts after this.

case closed.

because

some

people

don't

think

very

deeply

[fansince62]

As long as we're saying wins and losses are irrelevant stats for QBs, I think we should also stop using completion percentage, passing touchdowns, and yardage. I mean, those are obviously team stats. QBs don't throw the ball to themselves you know.

bingo!

[wvtbred]

His best statistical season was still only good for mid-pack.

and wasn't this considered a VERY weak schedule last season?

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I think another key difference in the Elway x Campbell connection is this:

Even that mediocre season he had in 1985, he brought his team back to win SEVEN times.

I think 4th quarter comebacks is a very important stat for a QB, because:

1: By default, the ball is in the hands of the QB - the run game and defense become less of a factor, and the play of the QB become more of a factor.

2: It shows how the QB responds to pressure, both in the fact that the situation is pressing, and that the opponent KNOWS what you want to do - pass the ball to get back in or win the game.

3: The QB is often required to make big plays - short passes and such aren't as effective.

Now, let's rank 4th quarter comebacks through various QBs first four seasons:

Elway: 11

Jurgensen: 5

Tarkenton: 9

Manning: 13

Brady: 10

Aikman: 7 (this includes his rookie season where he DIDNT WIN A GAME)

McNabb: 8 (who is generally considered a choker)

Brees: 5*

Garrard: 10 (not including this season, apparently, and including a season he started 2 games)

Schaub: 5 (in 3 seasons as a starter)

McNair: 6

Green: 8

Ryan: 3 (in 2 seasons)

Rodgers: 3 (in 2 seasons)

Roethlisberger: 10

Rivers: 11

Rypien: 7

Williams: 10 (for an atrocious TB team)

Theismann: 7

The point? The ability to lead the team in the fourth quarter is closely linked with the overall success of the quarterback. While a quarterback may be erratic for a period of time during their development, it would seem the ability to deliver in big moments is an accurate predictor of future success and stability in performance.

Even middling quarterbacks like Garrard come up big late.

*Even if you argue that Brees' and JC's stats are comparable (they're not), Brees represents a huge exception to the 4th quarter comeback correlation.

**This is probably the #1 reason why I prefer Clausen slightly to Bradford - 4 fourth-quarter comebacks in 12 games is simply amazing, and that doesn't count the times when the ND defense fell apart late.

[daveakl]

he has all the physical attributes you want in a QB. I for one, do not think he is dumb. He can make all the throws, he can move out of the pocket and his awareness in the pocket, albeit not be desired, is better.

He is better than the average QB on throwing outside of the pocket and on the run.

yes ...with good coaching both pre and during the game ... HE HAS UPSIDE.

He cannot make all the throws. He is a below avg. fade route thrower, he does not have a good deep ball at all (he has a great arm and arm strength, two different things) he does not throw before the break, and he does not lead his wr's well.

He is NOT a good QB throwing on the run.

After 5 years it's hard to say he has upside. At some point one must say he is what he is.

[daveakl]

now that we're not talking politics......you might be right........... I've debated this one myself cuz (what I suspect keeps others on his bandwagon) he does have his moments. he's not a buffoon ala ryan leaf. there have been QBs who turn it on later in their careers. this then boils down to: are his flaws correctable?

who? what QB's that were never (college or pro) an elite passer were able to turn it on later in their careers?

[SkinsBoss]

I think another key difference in the Elway x Campbell connection is this:

Even that mediocre season he had in 1985, he brought his team back to win SEVEN times.

I think 4th quarter comebacks is a very important stat for a QB, because:

1: By default, the ball is in the hands of the QB - the run game and defense become less of a factor, and the play of the QB become more of a factor.

2: It shows how the QB responds to pressure, both in the fact that the situation is pressing, and that the opponent KNOWS what you want to do - pass the ball to get back in or win the game.

3: The QB is often required to make big plays - short passes and such aren't as effective.

Now, let's rank 4th quarter comebacks through various QBs first four seasons:

Elway: 11

Jurgensen: 5

Tarkenton: 9

Manning: 13

Brady: 10

Aikman: 7 (this includes his rookie season where he DIDNT WIN A GAME)

McNabb: 8 (who is generally considered a choker)

Brees: 5*

Garrard: 10 (not including this season, apparently, and including a season he started 2 games)

Schaub: 5 (in 3 seasons as a starter)

McNair: 6

Green: 8

Ryan: 3 (in 2 seasons)

Rodgers: 3 (in 2 seasons)

Roethlisberger: 10

Rivers: 11

Rypien: 7

Williams: 10 (for an atrocious TB team)

Theismann: 7

The point? The ability to lead the team in the fourth quarter is closely linked with the overall success of the quarterback. While a quarterback may be erratic for a period of time during their development, it would seem the ability to deliver in big moments is an accurate predictor of future success and stability in performance.

Even middling quarterbacks like Garrard come up big late.

*Even if you argue that Brees' and JC's stats are comparable (they're not), Brees represents a huge exception.

Good fact finding Imperium.....but maybe I missed it somewhere........how many come from behind wins does Campbell have?

[Rocky52Mc]

The offensive line is 19-35.

Santana Moss is 19-35.

Joe Gibbs and Jim Zorn are 19-35.

Daniel Snyder's recent record is 19-35.

See where I'm going with this? I thought this was a team game. Our Redskins are 19-35 over this period. Kind of sucks guys, let's hope for wholesale change then because this "TEAM" just doesn't have it.

1 player does not make you win or lose, and even if you have a weakness you typically have a strength that makes up for it. The Redskins are 19-35. This isn't a quarterback thing, this isn't just Jason Campbell, this is the TEAM as a whole.

[panel]

who? what QB's that were never (college or pro) an elite passer were able to turn it on later in their careers?

Matt Cassel

Jeff Garcia

John Kitna

Tom Brady

Kurt Warner

Kordell Stewart

[daveakl]

Cassel def. turned it on in year 4 after sitting on the bench for years 1-3. I wouldn't say that is late in his career.

Garcia was an amazing passer in college and in the CFL before coming to the NFl.

Kitna was great in college as a passer as well as in NFL Europe.

Brady also was a passing QB in college and showed major potential in his second year in the NFL.

Warner was a major passer in his senior year of college and then in the AFL he was dominate as a passing QB.

Kordell? really?

[SoCalSkins]

The offensive line is 19-35.

Santana Moss is 19-35.

Joe Gibbs and Jim Zorn are 19-35.

Daniel Snyder's recent record is 19-35.

See where I'm going with this? I thought this was a team game. Our Redskins are 19-35 over this period. Kind of sucks guys, let's hope for wholesale change then because this "TEAM" just doesn't have it.

1 player does not make you win or lose, and even if you have a weakness you typically have a strength that makes up for it. The Redskins are 19-35. This isn't a quarterback thing, this isn't just Jason Campbell, this is the TEAM as a whole.

Simply not true. The Redskins have a winning record without JC playing since he has been here. Those are his numbers.

He holds the worst W/L record of any Redskins QB in history who played in as many or more games for the Skins. Over 76 years of football and he is the worst.

He is a once in a lifetime loser. Worst ever for a Redskin.

His worthlessness will never be surpassed by another Redskins QB ever.

[skinfan2k]

arguably the easiest first half schedule in NFL history and we still went 4-12 to start, at worst we should have been 5-2 to start the year

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The offensive line is 19-35.

Santana Moss is 19-35.

Joe Gibbs and Jim Zorn are 19-35.

Daniel Snyder's recent record is 19-35.

gibbs was not successful his 2nd time around

zorn was a failure

the offensive line sucks

dan snyder sucks

moss is good but i wouldnt care if we decided to go in another direction

all you did was point out pieces on an overall losing team that could and should be replaced or have been already. lol

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Simply not true. The Redskins have a winning record without JC playing since he has been here. Those are his numbers.

He holds the worst W/L record of any Redskins QB in history who played in as many or more games for the Skins. Over 76 years of football and he is the worst.

He is a once in a lifetime loser. Worst ever for a Redskin.

His worthlessness will never be surpassed by another Redskins QB ever.

im almost positive that in all of our lifetimes we will never see a redskins QB surpass his futile W/L record. 19-32 while posting mediocre at best stats is something that will probably never be topped for quite some time.

[SoCalSkins]

im almost positive that in all of our lifetimes we will never see a redskins QB surpass his futile W/L record. 19-32 while posting mediocre at best stats is something that will probably never be topped for quite some time.

It will never be surpassed ever.

He also accomplished it during a span the Redskins made the playoffs 2 out of 3 years and played in 3 playoff games.

The magnitude of his complete failure is amazing.

Worst Redskins Qb to ever play a season or more of games in the super bowl era, playing on a team that consistently won without him and yet people still want him on the team.

It is beyond a joke. His supporters should be ashamed of themselves.