mistertim Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I don't know man. This was the first person I looked up, he didn't start off too hot....Elway 1983 (11 games) - 7 TDs, 14 INTs, rating 54.9 1984 - 18 TDs, 15 INTs, rating 76.8 1985 - 22 TDs, 23 INTs, rating 70.2 Total of 47 TDs, 52 INTs Haha. Beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I think a lot of people like Campbell because at times he shows how great he can be. He is an inconsistent player right now. He looks terrible at times. Take the Broncos or Saints game s for example. He threw accurately and made smart decisions. The flashes of greatness he gives make people see potential, but he has to gain consistency asap. But are those examples of a player showing flashes of greatness and what he can be? Or are those examples of a player flashing his best and the rest of the time being the norm? 2 out of 16 would lead me to think it's more of the second and less of the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I dunno, man. Take a look at Elway's stats for a bunch of his first years. Extremely inconsistent. Now before anyone freaks out I'm not saying Campbell is as good as Elway, but sometimes it takes time and the right coach for a QB to REALLY come into his own. Notice what happened around the time Shanny started with Denver as a QB coach and then HC? Elway turned into an elite QB. I'm not saying that will happen with Campbell and Shanny but I think that if he sticks with Campbell he will be much better at tailoring an offense to what he likes about his game. Just that that sort of stuff CAN happen and has happened in the past.http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm The problem with the logic that a player can be inconsistent and then turn it on is that the player you cite there was an elite college QB as a passer. JC was not an elite college QB as a passer. I think a better example would be to find a guy that was avg to above avg. his entire QB life (college and start of pros) and then turned it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdrums Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 QB win/loss record is the most useless stat in sportsteams win or lose, not just one player. seriously, arguing a QB win/loss record is just silly, and shows a lack of football knowledge. Wild thing, I think I love you. In a totally hetero way, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Win/Loss record is a team stat.Football is also a team game. Win/loss record is also a reflection on the FO. The bolded/highlighted portion precludes any open minded discussion. why ... were there any posts after this. case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzwiz Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 But are those examples of a player showing flashes of greatness and what he can be? Or are those examples of a player flashing his best and the rest of the time being the norm?2 out of 16 would lead me to think it's more of the second and less of the first. You're probably right. He needs to work on bringing his 'best' every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 ok, have it your way! (and i removed all of the special teams TDs, carlos pick 6 in the det game, and all of the TDs campbell allowed with his turnovers, 2009 it was 4)2006: 20.2 offensive points per game, 22.7 defensive points allowed per game 2007: 17.9 offensive points per game, 20.8 defensive points allowed per game 2008: 16.1 offensive points per game, 17.2 defensive points allowed per game 2009: 16.6 offensive points per game, 19.3 defensive points allowed per game edit: saw your edit, heres the averages each year (and im just pulling the averages as in the most middle of the pack ranked 16th for everything): 2006: 20.3 offensive points per game, 20.5 defenisve points allowed per game 2007: 21.6 offensive points per game, 21.8 defensive points allowed per game 2008: 23.1 offensive points per game, 21.9 defensive points allowed per game 2009: 22.1 offensive points per game, 20.4 defensive points allowed per game Nice work, BLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 why ... were there any posts after this. case closed. i recommend you email www.pro-football-reference.com and tell them they are incorrect and to change their site immediately because its making jason campbell look bad. i mean, surely the jason campbell fan club knows more about the importance of the W/L stat on QBs than maybe the biggest football reference site on the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The problem with the logic that a player can be inconsistent and then turn it on is that the player you cite there was an elite college QB as a passer. JC was not an elite college QB as a passer. I think a better example would be to find a guy that was avg to above avg. his entire QB life (college and start of pros) and then turned it on. That doesn't really make much sense. We aren't talking about college. We're talking about their pro careers. And while Elway was a great passer in college it obviously took him a while to get to that point in the pro game seeing how inconsistent his stats were for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 London Fletcher has a record of 21-27 as a starter for the Redskins... He must suck Brian Orakpo has a record of 4-12 as a starter... He must be a bust Sean Taylor has a record of 25-28 as a starter... He must have been a below average player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasthunder Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I dunno, man. Take a look at Elway's stats for a bunch of his first years. Extremely inconsistent. Now before anyone freaks out I'm not saying Campbell is as good as Elway, but sometimes it takes time and the right coach for a QB to REALLY come into his own. Notice what happened around the time Shanny started with Denver as a QB coach and then HC? Elway turned into an elite QB. I'm not saying that will happen with Campbell and Shanny but I think that if he sticks with Campbell he will be much better at tailoring an offense to what he likes about his game. Just that that sort of stuff CAN happen and has happened in the past.http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm WHAT, your saying that Jason is gonna be the next Elway ?????? Man, you lost all credability for any future posts. I see what you are saying. To me it appears as tho the team is at a crossroads. On one hand you have Jason that put up his best career numbers last year, he can be tendered for a small amount, the free agency class for qb's is really weak, so it would appear as tho Jason would have a strong trading value for 2010. But then on the other side, he had his best year as a pro lastyear under some very adverse conditions. We have a new coaching staff, one that has a history of developing qbs. And the draft class for qbs is one of the weaker ones. So do you keep him for a year and hope he has the stuff to be a long term solution? Do you tender him for a year while grooming his replacement? Do you trade him for some draft picks and bring in a Rex Grossman type/ and or start Collins while the rookie learns from the bench? Out of all of this, I am greatful that Shanahan is now the head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Jason Campbell is not an elite NFL quarterback and he'll never be.Nobody starts off this average, and inconsistent and suddenly turns it on. Not saying he can't have one or two really good years on a talented team with an excellent coach but he WILL NEVER lead a team a la Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, McNabb, Favre, Warner, etc. dude, you never, ever, look at stats do you? you asking for trouble here my friend ... gannon? hell ... drew freaking brees? his first 3 years were as bad as JC. check out phil simms first four years. barking up the wrong tree my friend... go find another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 hell ... drew freaking brees? his first 3 years were as bad as JC. cant have your cake and eat it too. brees started 1 game his rookie year, and youre calling that his first year. then you better call campbells first year his first year, where he sat on the bench and did nothing. brees as a 3rd year starter made the probowl. campbell will never go to a probowl. ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since a Fetus Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 see when i go to www.pro-football-reference.com and look up QBs, theres a record as a starter for them listed underneath. they dont have that for any other position. Actually, that is where I get my stats from. Excellent site. Oh man, I hope you are being sarcastic???? LOL at your Patrick Willis point...he is the best in the game and what is his record? Yes, I was being sarcastic. I just think the thread is dumb. This has been argued ad nauseum in many other threads. It could have been posted there. This is a team sport, and W-L record should not be used as the basis on whether or not a player is good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since a Fetus Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Kurt Warner 17-25 with the Cardinals. He must really suck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I wish terrorists would blow up this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 That doesn't really make much sense. We aren't talking about college. We're talking about their pro careers. And while Elway was a great passer in college it obviously took him a while to get to that point in the pro game seeing how inconsistent his stats were for years. Let me try to rephrase that, it was a little disjointed. Elway was an elite college QB as a passer. To see that he struggled his first 3 years and then turned it on follows the past of the majority of elite NFL QB's. Played in college in a pro or under center passing O and then took a few years to adjust to the speed of the NFL. JC was not an elite college QB as a passer. There is nothing in his history to suggest he will go from what he is now to becoming an elite QB. I would argue that if you are going to cite a QB that has made the jump from struggling to elite then you would need to use someone that never was an elite passing QB and then became one after a few years in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I dunno about you guys, but I think I've seen all the Jason Campbell threads I need for a lifetime. I've seen all of Jason Campbell I need for a lifetime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I wish terrorists would blow up this thread I'm with you. I'm also with Morneblade. It is just ridiculous at this point. I wish that all Campbell threads could be merged, because they're all the same ****ing thread at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erock353 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 This thread has shed a lot of light on this hardly touched subject. :beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse::beatdeadhorse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsBoss Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 in reading through all the responses in this thread I've yet to see any of the Campbell supporters provide actual evidence why he is worthy of staying as our starting QB. The supporters either defend WIN/LOSS as a mirage and bring up points that you can't judge a QB by wins. Or they simply blame deficiencies of the offensive line as being the only logical reason why Campbell sucks. I want Campbell supporters to point to actual evidence why he's good. Post# 41 shows interesting stats about how bad he is when he has time to throw the ball yet for all the supporters of JC not one of them has put up strong evidence that shows why we should keep him. I guess all the supporters of Campbell don't mind losing. Because how else can you explain all the excuses make for defending him. The purpose of this thread was simply to point out the obvious his WIN/LOSS record is terrible. The only time we've made the playoffs during his time here was when he got injured and the old Todd Collins stepped in his place. So to all the supporters of Campbell give me evidence why we should keep him? And stop blaming Win/LOSS as a poor indicator and stop blaming the OLine or pointing out to Fletcher's Win/LOSs this is about Campbell and the fact that his deer in the headlights routine is getting old and our franchise needs to get a new QB in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Kurt Warner 17-25 with the Cardinals. He must really suck!! But before that he was 40-19 with the Rams and Giants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 in reading through all the responses in this thread I've yet to see any of the Campbell supporters provide actual evidence why he is worthy of staying as our starting QB.The supporters either defend WIN/LOSS as a mirage and bring up points that you can't judge a QB by wins. Or they simply blame deficiencies of the offensive line as being the only logical reason why Campbell sucks. I want Campbell supporters to point to actual evidence why he's good. Post# 41 shows interesting stats about how bad he is when he has time to throw the ball yet for all the supporters of JC not one of them has put up strong evidence that shows why we should keep him. I guess all the supporters of Campbell don't mind losing. Because how else can you explain all the excuses make for defending him. The purpose of this thread was simply to point out the obvious his WIN/LOSS record is terrible. The only time we've made the playoffs during his time here was when he got injured and the old Todd Collins stepped in his place. So to all the supporters of Campbell give me evidence why we should keep him? And stop blaming Win/LOSS as a poor indicator and stop blaming the OLine or pointing out to Fletcher's Win/LOSs this is about Campbell and the fact that his deer in the headlights routine is getting old and our franchise needs to get a new QB in. I've asked that twice in this thread and not really had anyone answer what it is the JC does well that makes people think he will take the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devastate Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The simplest way to measure Campbell is Wins and Losses. Yes I agree QB rating and completion % and all the other stats can factor in but at the end of the day it's all about wins and losses and looking into it these are the facts behind Campbell's record as a starter.2006 Campbell as starter 2-5 2007 Campbell as starter 5-7 2008 Campbell as starter 8-8 2009 Campbell as starter 4-12 That makes Campbell's career win/loss record at 19 wins and 35 losses So to all those Campbell supporters I challenge you to defend that fact. 19-35 is inexcusable. These are the hard facts. For those fans out there that want to continue with that I ask you why? What has Campbell shown that gets you excited about keeping him? Yes, the man can take a hit. That's great if he's a boxer but how often do you see Peyton Manning get hit? Is it because Peyton Manning has the greatest offensive line ever or is it just because he's smart enough to play the position better? Campbell might be a warrior and if I'm Allen and Shanahan I'm singing his praise right now just in hopes of upselling his trade value as an RFA. But the fact is Campbell is 19-35 as a starter. The last great QB we had that helped us to the playoffs in back to back years was Mark Rypien. Ryp suited up from us from 88 to 93 during the time we had winning seasons from 89 to 92 and 3 straight playoff appearances along with the Super Bowl in between as well. QB play is and always will be a measuring stick of success. And the bottom line is Campbell is not worthy of us sticking with him anymore. For all those JC supporters out there give me reasons and give me hope why we should stick with him? What has he done to make you believe that he can get us back to winning football? Simple.. The team and the scheme around him has sucked. There are the simple stats, and then there are the stats behind the stats.. lets see the stats wins and losses when the O line didn't suck and kept him up right.. Not saying there will be none but it will be less. No one ever said JC was a QB who could lift the talent of the players around him or lift the team.. He is a solid QB who won't give up the ball that much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Kurt Warner 17-25 with the Cardinals. He must really suck!! um, he was 27-30 actually, but whos counting. not to mention that whole superbowl thing and two post seasons, wins in each of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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