wvtbred Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 It is apples and oranges. That was my point. In 2006 the Redskins had one of the worst defenses ever assembled, can we hold those losses against JC? Last I checked there were 22 starters (not counting special teams) on a football team. To hold one man accountable for the record is just not right. Suisham single handedly cost the Redskins a couple losses...are you going to blame JC for those? Actually I was on his bandwagon in 06 because Gibbs spent sooooo much on him and MB's arm was toast. What pissed me off and made me jump ship was 2007 when he went down and Collins came in and the team "instantly" looked different. The O and D were flying to the ball the O was looking around like damn we can win and our QB is going to get us there. That is when I was done with Jason and when the team didn't even open comp for the QB position in '08 I was totally done with the whole experiment. Everything since then has been pure pain and agony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 No point in starting a new thread but I would like to throw this question out to people:What are the things that you see JC do well that make you think he will be a QB that can lead our team to the playoffs on a year in year out basis? Honestly I don't know. The whole Jim Zorn era was a fiasco. I'd like to see him have one shot in Shanahan's offense. I still like the idea of drafting Bradford, McCoy, or LeFevour. (I like those three guys for some reason, just my "eye test", lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Posts about a broad range of topics. Not 10,503 posts about this argument that's been going on since I've been here. I give you that. But, there just isn't a whole lot to "talk" about right now. I usually try to stay out of the JC talk, but today I feel like getting involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 my problem is how do you have your best season stats wise and only 4-12? Take a quick look-see at the running game...that'll give ya a good starting place. or you can look at JCs performance once the pressure was off to win. 99.9% of this board agrees that campbell does not perform well when the "pressure" to win is on. notice how awful he was until all the pressure to win was off? he started "improving" in like week 12, 2nd eagles game, when the season was clearly over. no more pressure to win, the season is over, just go through the motions and dont worry because whatever you do wont make anything worse, you already missed the playoffs. campbell has poor mental makeup IMO. its impossible to prove otherwise but his lack of performance in critical situations, coupled with the fact that his best statistical football has come in meaningless games should be a hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Honestly I don't know. The whole Jim Zorn era was a fiasco. I'd like to see him have one shot in Shanahan's offense. I still like the idea of drafting Bradford, McCoy, or LeFevour. (I like those three guys for some reason, just my "eye test", lol) This I can agree with. Why not draft Bradford at #4 or a QB in the top of the second then tender JC with the one year 1st/3rd if signed elsewhere compensation. JC starts this year. If he plays awesome then you franchise him after the season and work out a trade. If he poops it up you have your QB in waiting with a year in the system. You can build a O-Line with two picks and a couple of free agent signings that will be good enough next year to give you an idea of how JC would do in a MS offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anar-k21 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 :dallasucklet me add in that is a great stat to look at and consider but going to the draft is not the answer to our QB problem....if we have to id rather go to free-agency for a QB..we get Bradford and we gotta start all over training a rookie, and Bradford is a rookie by college standard, he only played 2 years!!! i think with better off. line Campbell looks better but if ya dump him don't dump him for another rookie!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 my problem is how do you have your best season stats wise and only 4-12? Checking down to a run on 3rd and 8, interceptions, putting the ball on the ground something like 13 times, throwing a HUGE % of your passes underneath and last but not least throwing a hail mary not just out of bounds but WAY like 10 yards out of bounds. So did some stats improve? Sure he threw more TD's but also more INT's. Stats can be what you want them to be. According to this site below he actually didn't improve stat wise over last year. Take a look for yourself and you can look at previous year there too, enjoy. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I dunno about you guys, but I think I've seen all the Jason Campbell threads I need for a lifetime. Im at the point where I wish we get rid of him just so I dont have to see this amazing redundant argument again. C'mon guys, at this point there isnt even bones left to beat on this dead horse.:beatdeadhorse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anar-k21 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 And adding that Shannahan will be able to work J.C. better than anyone!! give it some time....i know we been hearing that since J.C. got here but i saw him get sacked by 3 people at once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3!!!!! there no offensive line to hold him no QB can work under those conditions!...:helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I dunno about you guys, but I think I've seen all the Jason Campbell threads I need for a lifetime. Im at the point where I wish we get rid of him just so I dont have to see this amazing redundant argument again. C'mon guys, at this point there isnt even bones left to beat on this dead horse.:beatdeadhorse: its been awhile, but i agree with you! lets get rid of him so we can discuss something else! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anar-k21 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 lol good point blade! im just tryin to make sure we dont got through this again for another 5 years with Bradford!!!!! he's gonna stink it up:evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 its been awhile, but i agree with you! lets get rid of him so we can discuss something else! lol You can, but you refuse to. Intervention might be the next step. lol good point blade! im just tryin to make sure we dont got through this again for another 5 years with Bradford!!!!! he's gonna stink it up:evilg: I'm not sold on Bradford either. I'd prefer to trade down and get 2 OL in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 You can, but you refuse to. Intervention might be the next step. . theres just nothing going on right now, and QB will always be the hotbed issue here until we get a great one. then we can go back to bashing the dline lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 its been awhile, but i agree with you! lets get rid of him so we can discuss something else! lol At that point A.T.N. will be off the chain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 theres just nothing going on right now, and QB will always be the hotbed issue here until we get a great one.then we can go back to bashing the dline lol Nothing going on? How about the draft? FA? New staff? I would say that lots of things are going on. I just hope the D-line has 4 guys on it next year, not 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 A better stat would be Average Points Scored with Jason under center vs. Average Points allowed by our defense. Take those numbers and put them up against the league average. JC would still come up foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Checking down to a run on 3rd and 8, interceptions, putting the ball on the ground something like 13 times, throwing a HUGE % of your passes underneath and last but not least throwing a hail mary not just out of bounds but WAY like 10 yards out of bounds.So did some stats improve? Sure he threw more TD's but also more INT's. Stats can be what you want them to be. According to this site below he actually didn't improve stat wise over last year. Take a look for yourself and you can look at previous year there too, enjoy. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb The most amusing thing about this post is the "sure he had more TDs but also more INTs" part. How many people on here were moaning about how he didn't take enough chances and he needed to not worry about throwing INTs, just let it go? But now that he did that and ended up throwing more TDs but also more INTs than he had before people who dislike him come out of the woodwork and whine about that too. Didn't BLC say that interceptions aren't a big deal or something like that in this past offseason? If the INTs bother you I'm assuming you're very happy we didn't get Cutler, who is the anti-Campbell in that a big chunk of his INTs came in the red zone whereas Campbell had lots of RZ TDs and a very good comp % there. You'll find anything you possibly can to complain and voice your dislike of him. Oh, I also love how you pointed out ONE PLAY during one game where he made a boneheaded mistake and put that in there as some sort of "proof" that he is horrible. Have you seen some of the boneheaded plays even some of the very best QBs sometimes make? Give it a rest, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The most amusing thing about this post is the "sure he had more TDs but also more INTs" part. How many people on here were moaning about how he didn't take enough chances and he needed to not worry about throwing INTs, just let it go? But now that he did that and ended up throwing more TDs but also more INTs than he had before people who dislike him come out of the woodwork and whine about that too. Didn't BLC say that interceptions aren't a big deal or something like that in this past offseason? If the INTs bother you I'm assuming you're very happy we didn't get Cutler, who is the anti-Campbell in that a big chunk of his INTs came in the red zone whereas Campbell had lots of RZ TDs and a very good comp % there. You'll find anything you possibly can to complain and voice your dislike of him.Oh, I also love how you pointed out ONE PLAY during one game where he made a boneheaded mistake and put that in there as some sort of "proof" that he is horrible. Have you seen some of the boneheaded plays even some of the very best QBs sometimes make? Give it a rest, man. Just proving the point that a "stat" can be used anyway you need it to be used. Thanks for helping to make the point. Also how many Hail Mary's have you seen thrown out of bounds? Personally I have only seen one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodriggo Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Jason Campbell is not an elite NFL quarterback and he'll never be. Nobody starts off this average, and inconsistent and suddenly turns it on. Not saying he can't have one or two really good years on a talented team with an excellent coach but he WILL NEVER lead a team a la Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, McNabb, Favre, Warner, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'll ask again: What are the things that you see JC do well that make you think he will be a QB that can lead our team to the playoffs on a year in year out basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 A better stat would be Average Points Scored with Jason under center vs. Average Points allowed by our defense. Take those numbers and put them up against the league average. JC would still come up foul. ok, have it your way! (and i removed all of the special teams TDs, carlos pick 6 in the det game, and all of the TDs campbell allowed with his turnovers, 2009 it was 4) 2006: 20.2 offensive points per game, 22.7 defensive points allowed per game 2007: 17.9 offensive points per game, 20.8 defensive points allowed per game 2008: 16.1 offensive points per game, 17.2 defensive points allowed per game 2009: 16.6 offensive points per game, 19.3 defensive points allowed per game edit: saw your edit, heres the averages each year (and im just pulling the averages as in the most middle of the pack ranked 16th for everything): 2006: 20.3 offensive points per game, 20.5 defenisve points allowed per game 2007: 21.6 offensive points per game, 21.8 defensive points allowed per game 2008: 23.1 offensive points per game, 21.9 defensive points allowed per game 2009: 22.1 offensive points per game, 20.4 defensive points allowed per game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzwiz Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'll ask again:What are the things that you see JC do well that make you think he will be a QB that can lead our team to the playoffs on a year in year out basis? I think a lot of people like Campbell because at times he shows how great he can be. He is an inconsistent player right now. He looks terrible at times. Take the Broncos or Saints game s for example. He threw accurately and made smart decisions. The flashes of greatness he gives make people see potential, but he has to gain consistency asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Nobody starts off this average, and inconsistent and suddenly turns it on. I don't know man. This was the first person I looked up, he didn't start off too hot.... Elway 1983 (11 games) - 7 TDs, 14 INTs, rating 54.9 1984 - 18 TDs, 15 INTs, rating 76.8 1985 - 22 TDs, 23 INTs, rating 70.2 Total of 47 TDs, 52 INTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Jason Campbell is not an elite NFL quarterback and he'll never be.Nobody starts off this average, and inconsistent and suddenly turns it on. Not saying he can't have one or two really good years on a talented team with an excellent coach but he WILL NEVER lead a team a la Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, McNabb, Favre, Warner, etc. I dunno, man. Take a look at Elway's stats for a bunch of his first years. Extremely inconsistent. Now before anyone freaks out I'm not saying Campbell is as good as Elway, but sometimes it takes time and the right coach for a QB to REALLY come into his own. Notice what happened around the time Shanny started with Denver as a QB coach and then HC? Elway turned into an elite QB. I'm not saying that will happen with Campbell and Shanny but I think that if he sticks with Campbell he will be much better at tailoring an offense to what he likes about his game. Just that that sort of stuff CAN happen and has happened in the past. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I dunno, man. Take a look at Elway's stats for a bunch of his first years. Extremely inconsistent. Now before anyone freaks out I'm not saying Campbell is as good as Elway, but sometimes it takes time and the right coach for a QB to REALLY come into his own. Notice what happened around the time Shanny started with Denver as a QB coach and then HC? Elway turned into an elite QB. I'm not saying that will happen with Campbell and Shanny but I think that if he sticks with Campbell he will be much better at tailoring an offense to what he likes about his game. Just that that sort of stuff CAN happen and has happened in the past.http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm Great minds, great minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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