Do We Start A Rookie QB Right Away? (MET and please learn from it)

[darrelgreenie]

Do we start the rookie QB right away? and hope that he'll be like Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Mark Sanchez(depending on who you ask), or any other greats, and have success under center because he is still fresh and in the routine of football. Or do we sit him and make him the backup while we groom him and train him to start, 2-3 seasons down the line like we did wit Campbell?

QB development should be every teams priority you if you decide to play a rookie QB you want them to have success.

If you aren't able to put the QB in a position to succeed then i don't think you should do it.

I think its a luxury to be able to start a rookie QB right away.

Its a luxury that requires a good OL and strong running game and a good defense doesn't hurt.

Getting to the point, no i don't think we should start our rookie QB right away.

But grooming them 2-3 years is another luxury.

This luxury requires having a proven system and a good team in place that's is having success with its current QB.

Aaron Rodgers, Kevin Kolb are the only 2 QBs i can think of off the top of my head in this situation.

So I'd like your guys opinion, which method is better, and which method do we want to take if we draft a rookie QB this year? Start the rookie fresh out of college and training camp? Or sit him and groom him until he is ready?

-Chief

Going by your scenario what round is this QB drafted?

(I assume 1st round? because it would change the situation if the QB is taking 2nd round or down)

1st round QB

Start the QB that wins the QB competition between Colt Brennan and whatever QBs the Allen/Shanahan's bring be it Sage Rosenfels or John David Booty.

If the stop gap QB has unquestioned success let him ride out the season,

but as soon as the season is over (i.e. no chance for the playoffs) let the rookie QB come in at half time the game before the worst defensive team on the schedule then let them finish out the season.

2nd round/3rd round QB

Start the QB that wins the QB competition between Colt Brennan and whatever QBs the Allen/Shanahan's bring be it Sage Rosenfels or John David Booty.

Whomever wins the starting QB spot is going to be the starter for the rest of the season and part of the next, unless they are lights out good.

*Apply the Bill Walsh's Steve DeBerg-Joe Montana scenario. Play McCoy in every game but not as the starter only play him for a few series and only let him throw in games situations with a high probability for success.

In the 2nd year continue the same model but give McCoy more reps every game until about mid-season where he takes over outright.

[generals01]

There is a lot of misconception in this thread about Atlanta from people who just don't want to give credit to Matt Ryan.

In 2007, with Harrington and Redman under center, they gave up 47 sacks.

In 2008, with Ryan under center, they gave up 17.

Everyone takes this as proof that the OL was drastically improved for Ryan.

What did they do?

They drafted Sam Baker at 21 but he only played 5 games so that doesn't have a big effect.

They plugged in a 34 LT, they kept the same LG (a 2nd year 2nd round draft pick), went with the same C who was 32, plugged in a new RG (a 2nd year undrafted player), and kept the same RT (also a 2nd year guy, also undrafted).

So the big "upgrades" were an old LT, and an undrafted RG with little game experience. The other guys were the same ones they had in the year before that gave up 47 sacks.

So how exactly did they build a solid OL in front of Ryan?

And if everyone calls this "building a solid OL to let a rookie QB succeed", what makes you think we can't do a similar switcheroo if we draft a qb at 4?

[generals01]

Starting a rookie QB is heap bad medicine. I would rather grab a good prospect in the third or fourth round and allow him to learn.

You don't let a ten year old drive the family car; why would you want to give a young QB the keys to the show?

If I ran the team, I would always trade away a top five pick.

While you definitely have bust possibiity with the first round, the greatest likelihood for a 3rd or fourth round QB having success is almost nil. Often, you are lucky to get a 2nd string QB out of that.

Example: 3rd round

Matt Schaub is the ONLY decent qb from the 3rd round right now

Here is a list of every QB drafted in the 3rd round this decade (not including Schaub):

Kevin O'Connell, Trent Edwards, Charlie Whitehurst, Brodie Croyle, Andrew Walter, David Greene, David Ragone, Chris Simms, Josh McCown, Quincy Carter, Giovanni Carmazzi, and Chris Redman

Out of 13 quarterbacks, ONE is a decent starter/ let alone a freaking franchise quarterback. I would not want a single other player on this list other than Schaub as my qb. Most of these guys are barely even backup quality and won't last long in the league.

Not to mention Schaub was in the same draft as Big Ben, Rivers and Manning. I would take these three over Schaub (who can't even stay healthy) any day.

Would you rather have pulled the trigger at the top of the draft in 2004 on a potential franchise qb like Rivers, or gone the "safer" route with an OL like Robert Gallery who had to switch to freaking guard.

Relying on third or fourth rounds qbs will leave this team mediocre, hoping for the occasional wild card spot and drifting between 6-10 and 9-7.

Sure you can pray for a late rounder but the chances of finding Brady or Romo sits to pee are about as slim as possible.

[Mursilis]

I think another argument against sitting a rookie QB is the fact that a new CBA is not in effect, and the '11 season may be canceled. Yes, that's still a long way off, so anything can happen in the next 14 months, but the owners and the players are a long way apart, and both seem determined to take it to the wire. So, say the 'skins take a rookie QB at #4, and sit him for '10, and the '11 season is canceled or shortened. The guy would be nearly half-way through his rookie contract, and you still wouldn't even really know if he's a keeper or not! I think, if the team drafts a first-round QB this year, you've got to play him as a rookie unless he has health issues or is just completely unprepared to be out there just yet.

[hogluv4life]

Guess I'm going with the last choice on this. Yall can say what you want but IMO...we drop JC & TC and get what we can get out them (maybe some more picks) and pick up Donovan McNabb. Yes, it pains me to say it too but Donovan McNabb. He's got a buttload of WCO experience knows our division opponents and only has about another 4 year signing left in him.

Bring in McNabb and start him. Bring in two young rookie QB's and let them learn while we continue to work out the O-line. Then next off-season open up the battle between the QB's and let the best man play while McNabb continues to influence and teach our young QB's.

There I said it, and yes it pains me to say it but it's my opinion and I promise you won't hear it again on the QB subject.

[darklight1216]

If we draft Bradford or Clauson or any QB for that matter and they WIN the starting job, we should have them make reads on half of the. This is what they did for Rothlesburger, Sanchez, Flacco and many other starting qbs that started in year one.

I don't understand the first sentence.

Ben and Flacco didn't win the starting jobs on their respective teams...

[mistertim]

Guess I'm going with the last choice on this. Yall can say what you want but IMO...we drop JC & TC and get what we can get out them (maybe some more picks) and pick up Donovan McNabb. Yes, it pains me to say it too but Donovan McNabb. He's got a buttload of WCO experience knows our division opponents and only has about another 4 year signing left in him.

Bring in McNabb and start him. Bring in two young rookie QB's and let them learn while we continue to work out the O-line. Then next off-season open up the battle between the QB's and let the best man play while McNabb continues to influence and teach our young QB's.

There I said it, and yes it pains me to say it but it's my opinion and I promise you won't hear it again on the QB subject.

Isn't McNabb under contract through the 2010 season? If so, it would cost us a draft pick to get him. Seriously? We have so few draft picks already and you want to give up another one for a 33 year old QB with injury history? I don't want to give away any draft picks. We seriously can't afford it.

[skinsince72]

If we did go that route of drafting a QB I would rather him sit at least till we have a reliable O line so we know he won't die back there, especially a QB with a history of injury like Bradford

I agree. I honestly think Campbell will be retained another year and the Oline will be priority in 2010. That gives us much better options for 2011. JC could be retained (if he shows well in 2010, and he's been improving) or Colt get a shot, or take a QB in 2011, OR Cutler doesn't impress for a 2nd year in Chicago. Lot of options.

[hogluv4life]

Isn't McNabb under contract through the 2010 season? If so, it would cost us a draft pick to get him. Seriously? We have so few draft picks already and you want to give up another one for a 33 year old QB with injury history? I don't want to give away any draft picks. We seriously can't afford it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/324780-is-donovan-mcnab-the-right-qb-placeholder-for-the-buffalo-bills

The Eagles are looking at possible trades for McNabb oh wise one.

[bushwack]

Put him in the fire

I'm glad you're not the GM. If Clausen or Bradford are drafted at #4, there's no chance either, especially Bradford, steps on the field in a regular season game until the o-line is fixed. I'd rather have a rookie QB sit and learn Shanahan's offense and then start in '11 with a rebuilt line in from of him.

[bushwack]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/324780-is-donovan-mcnab-the-right-qb-placeholder-for-the-buffalo-bills

The Eagles are looking at possible trades for McNabb oh wise one.

They don't want to trade him to an NFC team, much less a team within the East. No chance the Skins could get him, unless they give multiple high draft picks, and McChoke isn't worth it.

[hogluv4life]

They don't want to trade him to an NFC team, much less a team within the East. No chance the Skins could get him, unless they give multiple high draft picks, and McChoke isn't worth it.

In the article linked, the Author even eludes to the idea that Donovan Couldn't be worth too much at this point in his career."Clearly McNabb does not have much left in the tank, perhaps another year to two, maybe three at the most." But his knowledge to rookies...invaluable.

I really don't want to get into this debate guys. Which is why I said that would be the last you hear from me on this topic.

[PokerPacker]

Favre didn't train Rodgers, he is a different kind of QB than AR..

Favre made a point of telling the team that he wasn't gonna "baby-sit" Rodgers.

[TotalRecall]

First, it's not a question of "IF". They will draft a QB, probably either 1st or 2nd round pick.

Second, I dare say Favre and Bledsoe had nothing to do with "grooming" their replacements.

Third, it depends on the player. Some QBs are mostly ready after college, but most are not. I think intelligence has a lot to do with being NFL ready.

[Redskinzfan30]

It all depends on what we do with the O-Line. If we fix the majority of it then we play the rookie. If we have 2 or 3 questions marks then we sit the rookie.

[Veretax]

I don't understand how people can get so upset about the OL, but expect us to improve with JC at QB. I mean I like JC, and if we have to go with him for another year I'm okay with that personally, but I think that the notion that we need 4 NEW starters right this year is nothing short of Hyperbole. We do need at least one Starting Caliber Tackle to replace Samuels. I would not want to rely on him at all next year. That leaves 4 positions:

Clearly Dockery will stick around. Could Thomas play another year? Maybe, if not can we rely on Rheinhardt, Mike Williams, or someone else we played next year? Maybe.

Center? Do we retain Rabach? Do we Draft a Center? Do we sign a FA? I don't have an answer for this position. Id be in favor of draftin ga Center, the question is where and when.

Right Tackle? Heyer is not the long term solution I think most of us agree that. However, can we replace him and Samuels at the same time? I think that will be more difficult than people think. I believe he could hold up for one more season if we had too, but long term I'd say no.

So I think we then have to look at the draft and say what can we do. Can we find a LT? I think we can, could we find a RT? Maybe, So I'd target a Left Tackle. If that means starting him at Right Tackle, maybe maybe, does that mean Samuels stays or we keel Levi Jones, that I don't know.

But I think we should target no more than 3 OL positions in the draft, ideallly a Center/Guard, a Left Tackle, and then either another guard or another tackle for depth. I doubt we get more than 2 starters out of this draft desite the depth there may be.

[wvtbred]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/324780-is-donovan-mcnab-the-right-qb-placeholder-for-the-buffalo-bills

The Eagles are looking at possible trades for McNabb oh wise one.

Quoting the bleacher report snot rag as a real source? :doh:

[generals01]

I think Clausen could step in. He has played 3 years behind a shoddy OL and in a pro style offense under a super bowl winning OC. I would throw him in and let him learn under fire.

Honestly, we aren't going to be a fantastic team next year. I don't think anyone disputes that. The sooner a young qb can get his game feet wet the sooner our team is competitive down the road.

Really, the only concern of mine with throwing a rookie qb in, is having him get sacked and lose all confidence like David Carr. I am no scout but having a qb lose confidence because of a lot of sacks is more mental than anything and I think you should be able to tell if a qb has the mental fortitude to withstand it before drafting him. For every Carr or Ramsey, you have someone who overcomes the sacks (i don't feel like looking up stats for examples but there has to be someone right?)

Clausen has been sacked a lot behind some really bad OLs so I think he has the ability to take a hit and step right back up for the next play

[hogluv4life]

Quoting the bleacher report snot rag as a real source? :doh:

Sorry. Didn't realize that a common knowledge subject as such needed reputable backing by at least 3 sources or anything. How about directly from Andy Reid's mouth on 01/11/10?

On whether it is difficult to decide to keep McNabb when QB Kevin Kolb is approaching his fourth season: "We'll look at all of this. Obviously I haven't gotten to the points that you're asking here with comparing players, contracts and everything else. I'm not at that point right now. We like Kevin Kolb and we like (QB) Michael Vick and we like Donovan McNabb. I think it's a pretty good situation to be in. The rest of the things will take place as we go through the offseason."

On whether Kolb could be the starting quarterback if he had to be: "I am very fortunate because there are a lot of head coaches who aren't getting these questions right here, in a serious way, that are really looking for good quarterbacks and I've got stinking three good quarterbacks that could play in this league. I respect that and feel very fortunate to be in that position. I don't want to give up any of them. I like them all. The more you have the better you are. That's a tough position to play. To answer your question, can Kevin Kolb play in the National Football League? Absolutely. Can he be a starter in the National Football League? Absolutely. The other two guys have proven it and they've been top quarterbacks in this league for a number of years."

On whether he thinks McNabb would play with a one-year deal: "We'll see. I'm not even at that point. They are good questions; I'm just not at that point yet to answer that."

Now you know these questions are loaded. But the vague responses given by Reid would definitely make you think nothing is set in stone yet especially Donovan's future and that his future is not clear. Which would definitely support those whacky claims of the Team looking to possible trade deals.

This is why I didn't want to comment any further on the subject. Honestly, all I see on these boards are QB talk and Okung talk. Unfortunately, all you see is the same 300 people posting the same 1500 comments about Bradford, Claussen, and Okung. It's like there is one collective brain on this board shared by all of you and unless your stroking the ego of someone else who is saying the same thing as you just paraphrasing differently. Yall don't want to hear it.

OMFG, an original thought not posted 2000 times previously on this board. Sorry for the mistake. Come on, Bradford and Okung...there is that better? Sorry for having an opinion and thinking yall might want to here a different idea on the subject. I've pretty much kept my mouth shut on this subject because it's not a popular opinion. But after reading more and more of the same I figured I'd add it. My bad.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Really, the only concern of mine with throwing a rookie qb in, is having him get sacked and lose all confidence like David Carr. I am no scout but having a qb lose confidence because of a lot of sacks is more mental than anything and I think you should be able to tell if a qb has the mental fortitude to withstand it before drafting him. For every Carr or Ramsey, you have someone who overcomes the sacks (i don't feel like looking up stats for examples but there has to be someone right?)

A long time ago I read an article where a prominent GM had his staff evaluate what characteristics the top 30 NFL QBs in the history of the game had in common.

The list read like this:

1. Toughness

2. Instincts

3. Accuracy

4. Work Ethic

5. Maturity

Three of the things are pretty much feel and mostly the reason why there are so many busts at the position. You really don't know how a prospect will react and handle adversity until he's thrown into the fire.

As for the hits/sacks thing, here's an example. Joey Harrington was sacked 17 times in his first 30 game appearances - 28 starts. Joe Flacco has been sacked 68 times in his first 32 starts.

Either you have "it", or you don't. Obviously, finding and evaluating "it" isn't as easy as it seems.

[hogluv4life]

Quoting the bleacher report snot rag as a real source? :doh:

Also, WVTBRED...shouldn't you be happy with any suggestion that includes getting rid of JC? You've pretty much said that's the one thing you want over and over.

I mean I'm down for you trying to be the queen of ES and all. Going from thread to thread pointing out others flaws and putting down JC every chance there is. But try to have some consistency. You want JC gone, I give just one of many ideas on how to make that happen and all you can add is the reliability of the bleacher report?

[Dondrae474]

If we did go that route of drafting a QB I would rather him sit at least till we have a reliable O line so we know he won't die back there, especially a QB with a history of injury like Bradford

I agree. We don't need to put the rookie QB in until the line can protect him. With no protection they will end up like Ramsey.

[darklight1216]

A long time ago I read an article where a prominent GM had his staff evaluate what characteristics the top 30 NFL QBs in the history of the game had in common.

The list read like this:

1. Toughness

2. Instincts

3. Accuracy

4. Work Ethic

5. Maturity

Three of the things are pretty much feel and mostly the reason why there are so many busts at the position. You really don't know how a prospect will react and handle adversity until he's thrown into the fire.

As for the hits/sacks thing, here's an example. Joey Harrington was sacked 17 times in his first 30 game appearances - 28 starts. Joe Flacco has been sacked 68 times in his first 32 starts.

Either you have "it", or you don't. Obviously, finding and evaluating "it" isn't as easy as it seems.

Yeah, our O-line is a little lacking in the pass protection department. >.< Good thing they're good at run blocking.

Poor Flacco, no receivers, no pass protection...

[Jeff in D.C.]

It depends how good the OL is. I don't want a rookie QB getting killed back there and ruining him forever because of it (especially Bradford with a rebuilt shoulder). If the OL is anywhere from solid-good, then he can start right away but otherwise sit him until the OL is good enough.

[isle-hawg]

I'd have him sit the year. With the limited FA if there is no CAP, I can't imagine we will fix the OL in a year especially with only 4 draft picks after using one on a QB.

Keeping JC would be the best thing to do IMO. He may not be real good, but he proved he is durable and we will need that quality again next year from whoever our QB is because he is going to be getting the crap kicked out of him behind our OL again most likely IMO.