The Evolution of Mexico

[r3dsk1ns4L1fe]

I'm writing a paper on this and let me tell you its going to be the most epic ****ing paper ever. Its my last semester in college so I might as well put everything I have into it. Anyways, Mexico is done as a country, nation, state, whatever you want to call it. The corruption is irreversible, at least in my opinion.

[Hubbs]

I'm writing a paper on this and let me tell you its going to be the most epic ****ing paper ever. Its my last semester in college so I might as well put everything I have into it. Anyways, Mexico is done as a country, nation, state, whatever you want to call it. The corruption is irreversible, at least in my opinion.

Dude, I want to read your paper. I might be able to help you get it published, not just in an academic journal, but a real newspaper or magazine. I have connections.

By the way... anyone else thinking prohibition is stupid yet?

[twa]

US college events canceled/ moved over stray bullets

http://www.utb.edu/Pages/default.aspx

UTB/TSC Emergency Warning #5

The campus is closed and evening classes have been canceled today and Saturday, Nov. 6 because of gunfire taking place across the Rio Grande. Anyone who needs to come to campus or has questions about events can call Campus Police at 882-8232 or 882-8233. Homecoming activities for Saturday, Nov. 6 have been affected. Coffee with the President has been canceled. The Golden Scorpions Reunion at noon will be on the patio at Lolas Bistro at 1335 Palm Blvd. in Brownsville. The Distinguished Alumnus Award event has been postponed until further notice. Enrollment Management's Scorpion Saturday event has also been canceled. The mens and womens soccer semifinals of the Red River Athletic Conference Tournament have been moved to the Brownsville Sports Park. The womens game that UTB/TSC is playing in is at 8 p.m. and the mens game that UTB/TSC will play in is at 10 p.m. today. The womens soccer final will take place at 5 p.m. and the mens soccer final will be at 7 p.m. Saturday, Nov. 6 at the Brownsville Sports Park.

[The 12th Commandment]

It's become a regular occurrence near the border in El Paso to have a "fire drill" where the sound of guns firing is cause to go inside for schools and business people. I haven't heard it yet but I don't get down there too often. There's also been a couple bullets hit buildings on the campus of UTEP. That's a distance from the river too, must be at least half a mile.

[AdamB]

It's become a regular occurrence near the border in El Paso to have a "fire drill" where the sound of guns firing is cause to go inside for schools and business people. I haven't heard it yet but I don't get down there too often. There's also been a couple bullets hit buildings on the campus of UTEP. That's a distance from the river too, must be at least half a mile.

Ya, give or take. If you take the side stairs up the side of the hill from the admin building parking area (near the library), at the top you can see the Mexico side of the river easily. The bullets that hit the campus buildings were from a gunfight between cops and cartel members right near the railroad bridge over the river *I think*, so I can see rifle fire hitting the campus fairly easily except that they would have had to be aiming up at an angle since UTEP is on a higher elevation and to clear I-10 without hitting a vehicle.

I have not heard about "fire drills" in the area. I know the schools run lock-down drills once or twice a semester, but that is farily common around the country. The biggest issue is the number of US citizens who either live in Juarez, like the two UTEP students killed this week, work in Juarez like some of the plant managers, or who visit family in Juarez. There were a couple of students at the local middle school who would be almost in tears because their parents were taking them to visit grandparents in Juarez and they were scared they would be shot, and this was before the violence really picked up. One girl at that same school was killed while visiting her parents in Juarez (she lived with her aunt and uncle).

I am not sure what other border towns are like, but El Paso and Juarez are essentially the same city with a border running through the middle. As a result, what happends in Juarez really has an emotionally impact on those in El Paso, even if the violence stays across the river. It would be like living in Vienna and having Tyson's Corner be a war zone.

[visionary]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/11/07/mexico.violence/index.html?hpt=T2

Official: 18 people killed in Ciudad Juarez

(CNN) -- Eighteen people were killed in separate shootings throughout Mexico's Ciudad Juarez on Saturday, marking it as one of the bloodiest days this year in the nation's most violent city, officials said Sunday.

In one incident, a family of seven was slaughtered while they were outside their home in the southeastern part of the city, Chihuahua State Attorney General's Office spokesman Carlos Gonzalez said.

"Among [the seven killed] were two brothers who we believe were targeted," Gonzalez said.

Local newspaper El Diario de Juarez reported that five of the bodies were found inside a car and another two bodies were found lying in the street. In another gruesome incident, an unidentified dismembered body was found wrapped in a blanket inside a bag, Gonzalez said.

"The most violent day we had here was earlier this year when 24 people were murdered," he said. "This is becoming too common."

Figures provided by the Chihuahua Attorney General's office and corroborated by Gonzalez showed that 352 people were killed in the month of October, making it the bloodiest month in Juarez since Mexican President Felipe Calderon launched his war on organized crime four years ago.

Local estimates put Juarez's death toll at more than 2,600 so far this year. In 2009, at least 2,575 people were killed in the city, according to a tally by television station XHIJ.

[Hubbs]

Good Lord. This is all-out war. I guess they don't call it the drug war for nothing.

[rocazares]

Everyday is the most bloodiest ...

[daveakl]

But why is there corruption? Because criminals are motivated to be corrupt by the very laws we enact to make them criminals? Seems to me we should repeal those laws.

Very Off Topic. But would you apply this to any law that motivates corruption?

[twa]

The corruption stems from unequal enforcement of laws there,justice is negotiable there...as well as effected by caste

back on topic

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/violence-119170-city-matamoros.html

A source with firsthand knowledge of criminal activity in Mexico stated that the Gulf Cartel is preparing for a push by the rival Zetas sometime this week.

The source said that a large contingent of Zetas is amassing forces in San Fernando apparently trying to take advantage of the blows sustained by the Gulf Cartel. He added that both sides are preparing for the push but didn’t know when or if they would clash.

...

Death toll

Controversy surrounds the weekend death toll in Tamaulipas, with Mexican authorities claiming that only 10 people were killed, including Cardenas Guillen, four of his bodyguards, four military troops and the reporter.

But a Mexican law enforcement official who asked that his name not be released stated on Saturday that the two-day toll was “easily more than 100,” including some civilians.

According to a press release from the Mexican navy, for the operation that killed Cardenas Guillen, the Navy deployed more than 660 marines, three helicopters and 17 vehicles.

In a later interview over the weekend, the military announced that the Escorpiones, the personal guard of Cardenas Guillen, had deployed snipers to balconies in the downtown area of Matamoros who tried to rescue their leader during a three-hour firefight.

For the death toll, the Mexican navy said it included only Cardenas Guillen and his bodyguards Sergio Antonio Fuentes (known as “El Tyson” or “Escorpion 1”), Raul Marmolejo Gomez (“Escorpion 18”), Hugo Lira (“Escorpion 26”) and Refugio Adalberto Vargas Cortez (“Escorpion 42”).

Naval officials, who also confirmed the death of three marines, wouldn’t comment on reports of a high death toll. In a separate press release, the Mexican army announced the death of one of its soldiers. Authorities have also acknowledged the death of the reporter.

[Hubbs]

Very Off Topic. But would you apply this to any law that motivates corruption?

Honestly, I don't understand what you're asking right here.

[twa]

Honestly, I don't understand what you're asking right here.

If I may

For example tax law..Do the tax laws motivate people to break them?

[twa]

Going back to the wagon train days?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g8N-n_V8Cl2Ew7Q8nD-i-f5RZkzA?docId=888514bcbee24282a61e9acff2a06be6

Mexico's government is telling migrants driving home for the holidays from the United States that they should form convoys for their own safety while traveling through Mexico, and an official said Monday that police will accompany convoys on the most dangerous stretches of highway.

A seemingly intractable wave of drug cartel violence has made some border highways, especially in the states of Tamaulipas, Sonora and Sinaloa, so dangerous that the U.S. State Department urges travelers to avoid driving on some of the roads.

"When there are hot spots, we can request that a patrol escort the convoy," said Itzel Ortiz, the director of the Paisano Program, which is in charge of welcoming returning migrants and ensuring their trips home are safe.

Demands for bribes by police and officials at Mexican customs checkpoints used to be the worst problems for returning migrants, who often bring cash, new vehicles and appliances with them.

But that seems almost innocuous compared to the challenges posed by drug cartel gunmen, who frequently set up roadblocks on northern highways to steal vehicles and cash, kidnap or kill travelers.

[daveakl]

If I may

For example tax law..Do the tax laws motivate people to break them?

Yes, basically what TWA said.

Your comment was "Because criminals are motivated to be corrupt by the very laws we enact to make them criminals? Seems to me we should repeal those laws."

I wanted to understand if you were saying that the drug laws that we enact are what make them criminals (i.e. they are defined as criminals because the law says they are but really they are doing nothing wrong) or if you are saying that the laws drive them to become criminals because there is a black market and thus the price is so high it becomes an attractive "job" to those that may not have other means to make as much money.

[twa]

Old school machismo...

If you want to be respected, you must respect yourself.

Mexican Marines Reconstruct the Death of Don Alejo Garza

The story began in the morning of Saturday November 13, when a group of armed gunmen went to deliver an ultimatum to Don Alejo Garza Tamez: He had 24 hours to turn over his property or suffer the consequences.

Using the diplomacy he had acquired over nearly eight decades of life, Don Alejo flatly announced that not only would he not be surrendering his property, but that he'd be waiting for them.

When the men had left, Don Alejo gathered his workers and ordered them to take Sunday off, he wanted to be alone.

He dedicated the rest of Saturday to taking stock of his weapons and ammunition and creating a military fortress style defense strategy for his home.

The night of Saturday the thirteenth was long and restless, much like his past hunting adventures; Don Alejo woke early. Shortly after 4 a.m. the motors of various trucks could be heard entering the property from a distance.

Marines who investigated the scene could only imagine how it was that morning: armed men, their impunity secured, confident they'd soon be owners of yet another property. Nobody, or almost no one, could hold out against a group of heavily armed gunmen. Only Don Alejo.

The trucks entered the ranch and took up positions surrounding the house. The gunmen got out of their trucks, fired shots in the air, and announced they came to take possession of the ranch. They were expecting the terrified occupants to run out, begging for mercy with their hands in the air.

But things didn't go as expected. Don Alejo welcomed them with bullets; the entire army of gunmen returned fire. Don Alejo seemed to multiply, he seemed to be everywhere. The minutes would have seemed endless to those who had seen him as easy prey. Various gunmen were killed on sight. The others, in rage and frustration, intensified the attack by swapping out their assault rifles for grenades.

When everything finally fell silent, the air was left heavy with gunpowder. The holes left in the walls and the windows attested to the violence of the attack. When they went in search of what they had assumed was a large contingent, they were surprised to find only one man, Don Alejo.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/11/mexican-marines-reconstruct-death-of.html

[Hubbs]

Yes, basically what TWA said.

Your comment was "Because criminals are motivated to be corrupt by the very laws we enact to make them criminals? Seems to me we should repeal those laws."

I wanted to understand if you were saying that the drug laws that we enact are what make them criminals (i.e. they are defined as criminals because the law says they are but really they are doing nothing wrong) or if you are saying that the laws drive them to become criminals because there is a black market and thus the price is so high it becomes an attractive "job" to those that may not have other means to make as much money.

Both.

As for twa's question, of course any law that prevents some people from doing what they want to do motivates a percentage of those people to break the law. That doesn't mean we should repeal all laws, but it does mean that we should be much less cavalier than we are when it comes to creating them in the first place. The War on Drugs is a prime example of this. If we treated drugs like we treat alcohol, or even prescription drugs, the funding for Mexican and South American cartels would evaporate. People are dying every day because we're so damn determined to legislate what I can put in my body, even though the chemical compounds we outlaw are virtually identical to the chemical compounds I can pick up at CVS. Do you know how similar Adderall is to cocaine? I have a bottle of Adderall in my backpack right now. Nobody can arrest me for it. People will die tomorrow because I could be arrested if it was cocaine instead, even though they're practically the same damn thing. People. Will. Die. Tomorrow. More will die the next day. More still the day after that. For no good reason. And we're so ****ing selfish as a nation that many of us refuse to even consider the possibility that the positives that would come from legalization would outweigh the negatives, just like they did with alcohol. Many more refuse to consider the possibility that there's ample evidence to indicate that the negatives are really, really overblown. We'd rather stick our fingers in our ears and read stories in the paper about entire towns in Mexico that are quite literally controlled by the cartels, because any cop who tries to fight them gets his head sent to the police station in the mail a few days later.

There's a reason I'm passionate about this subject. I don't like people dying, and I really don't like people dying because we're so damn stupid that we'll actually vote out politicians who legalize drug use because we're so afraid of the ****ing nonsensical boogeymen that come with the decision to not punish people for deciding to put something in their own bodies. We can even solve all sorts of budget problems by taxing the **** out of newly-legal drugs, but no, we'd rather have entire states, like our biggest ****ing one, the one that would be the 8th-largest economy in the world if it were a country, shut down because their revenue streams aren't big enough. (No, drug taxes wouldn't be the cure-all, but they'd damn sure help.) I hope you don't need things like school for your kids. Maybe they could study at home if you gave them some Adderall.

[chipwhich]

Hubbs, you are assuming legalizing marijuana will alleviate the drug cartels in Mexico. Is that your premise?

[Hubbs]

Hubbs, you are assuming legalizing marijuana will alleviate the drug cartels in Mexico. Is that your premise?

No. Not marijuana. Everything. At least at prescription status. Mexican cartels aren't ruling over large sections of Mexico because Rush Limbaugh wanted to get his hands on Oxycodone.

Just to be clear, PeterMP makes this distinction and I think it has merit, I don't mean allowing the commercialization of drugs like heroin. But legalizing individual use? Yes, that would render the cartels impotent, for the same reasons that Tommy Gun gangsters were rendered impotent when alcohol was re-legalized.

[The 12th Commandment]

Just sayin' Adderall is Meth not coke. I have some too, much as I hate the **** if I have to stay awake it works.

The rest of this conversation is very interesting. A lot of sheep become sheep dogs when their family (or something else they care greatly about) is threatened - it's not all predetermined.

[daveakl]

No. Not marijuana. Everything. At least at prescription status. Mexican cartels aren't ruling over large sections of Mexico because Rush Limbaugh wanted to get his hands on Oxycodone.

Just to be clear, PeterMP makes this distinction and I think it has merit, I don't mean allowing the commercialization of drugs like heroin. But legalizing individual use? Yes, that would render the cartels impotent, for the same reasons that Tommy Gun gangsters were rendered impotent when alcohol was re-legalized.

I'll use this post to respond to, but I did read the other also.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

[visionary]

Mexican authorities: 18 bodies found in mass grave

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/11/29/mexico.mass.grave/index.html?hpt=T1

(CNN) -- Authorities in the Mexican state of Chihuahua continued Monday to investigate the discovery of a mass grave holding 18 bodies.

Carlos Gonzalez, spokesman for the Chihuahua state attorney general's office, confirmed details of the discovery.

It was not immediately know how long the bodies, which were discovered on Friday, had been buried.

The discovery was made after the Mexican military spoke with five men detained for marijuana possession. The men were in possession of 176 kilos (about 387 pounds) of marijuana, authorities said.

Juarez gang leader admits killings

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/11/29/mexico.violence/index.html?hpt=T1

(CNN) -- An alleged gang member who police say was behind 80 percent of the killings in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, over the past 16 months was arrested over the weekend, officials said.

Police believe that Arturo Gallegos Castrellon, known as "El Farmero," was the leader of the Aztecas gang, a group closely linked with the Juarez cartel and its enforcement arm, La Linea.

Gallegos confessed to authorities that he ordered the killings of three people linked to the U.S. consulate in Juarez in March, as well as the attack on a party of young people that killed 14, federal police said.

The 32-year-old was arrested Saturday.

Gallegos "is allegedly responsible for homicides, extortions and distribution of drugs in all the sectors of Ciudad Juarez," the federal police said in a statement.

Witness to violence: Juarez, Mexico

He was captured as part of an operation to dismantle the Aztecas gang, police said.

Surveillance and tips from the public led authorities to a house occupied by armed men, where Gallegos was arrested.

According to authorities, the gang leader also admitted to the killings of five federal police officers.

Two others were captured along with Gallegos. Carlos Rodriguez Ramirez, 41, is accused of smuggling drugs between Juarez and El Paso, Texas. Gisela Ornelas Nunez, 32, was identified as being in charge of transporting drugs and weapons to Juarez, police said.

Police seized two assault rifles and two handguns, along with 228 cartridges for different weapons. They also found 90 grams of what police believe is marijuana. Two cars and two trucks, including one that was armored, were also taken.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AP4FS20101127

New drug tunnel found at U.S.-Mexico border

The tunnel is half a mile long and reaches to about 90 feet deep, contains two entrances on the U.S. side of the border and is outfitted with advanced rail, electrical and ventilation systems, officials with the San Diego Tunnel Task Force said.

On the Mexican side the underground passage, which is tall enough for a grown man to stand in, emerges in the kitchen of a stucco house in Tijuana, where it is capped with a hydraulic steel door, the officials said.

That shaft, which measured 1,800 feet and was also equipped with a rail system, lighting and ventilation, yielded some 30 tons of marijuana, one of the largest such seizures on the border in recent years.

[Hubbs]

Just sayin' Adderall is Meth not coke. I have some too, much as I hate the **** if I have to stay awake it works.

The rest of this conversation is very interesting. A lot of sheep become sheep dogs when their family (or something else they care greatly about) is threatened - it's not all predetermined.

Huh? Adderall's chemical composition is most similar to coke. Its effects are most similar to coke. Are you saying that its addictive properties are more similar to meth? Because as someone who's had an Adderall prescription for nearly three years, and who has studied the War on Drugs for longer than that, I feel confident when I say: No, it's not.

[The 12th Commandment]

Huh? Adderall's chemical composition is most similar to coke. Its effects are most similar to coke. Are you saying that its addictive properties are more similar to meth? Because as someone who's had an Adderall prescription for nearly three years, and who has studied the War on Drugs for longer than that, I feel confident when I say: No, it's not.

Sorry to hijack and I'm not being insulting or anything, just wanted you to know what you're putting in yourself. This is from the NIH - 1st result when you google adderall. It's a combination of amphetamines (speed like methamphetamine) and is highly addictive though I have no way of knowing if it's on par with meth. Did that crap once 20+ years ago and hated it. Hate the adderall too for that matter but it does keep you up. It's not at all similar to coke.

It's straight up speed. Two different kinds mixed so it lasts longer (one quick acting with a low half life and one slow acting with a high half life). I am prescribed so many highly potent and dangerous drugs for the MS that I do my homework.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000166

The combination of dextroamphetamine and amphetamine can be habit-forming. Do not take a larger dose, take the medication more often, or take it for a longer time than prescribed by your doctor. If you take too much dextroamphetamine and amphetamine, you may find that the medication no longer controls your symptoms, you may feel a need to take large amounts of the medication, and you may experience symptoms such as rash, difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep, irritability, hyperactivity, and unusual changes in your personality or behavior. Overusing dextroamphetamine and amphetamine may also cause sudden death or serious heart problems such as heart attack or stroke.

I now use a drug called Provigil which is a non-stimulant drug that keeps you awake and alert. The experts have yet to figure out why but I find it to be much more like coke than any f the amphetamines that I've tried. Less speedy and less noticeable but very potent. Expensive too.

[Hubbs]

Sorry to hijack and I'm not being insulting or anything, just wanted you to know what you're putting in yourself. This is from the NIH - 1st result when you google adderall. It's a combination of amphetamines (speed like methamphetamine) and is highly addictive though I have no way of knowing if it's on par with meth. Did that crap once 20+ years ago and hated it. Hate the adderall too for that matter but it does keep you up. It's not at all similar to coke.

It's straight up speed. Two different kinds mixed so it lasts longer (one quick acting with a low half life and one slow acting with a high half life). I am prescribed so many highly potent and dangerous drugs for the MS that I do my homework.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000166

Hmmm. I remember reading a couple things when I first got a prescription that said it was most similar to coke, and they were reputable, I just forget what the specific names of the publications were. But either way, the point still stands - speed, coke, I can be arrested for either. Not Adderall. And that's retarded.

I do appreciate your efforts, though, and I would give the same advice to anyone in my situation. Luckily, I've found that Adderall works great for me. I never feel any sort of addiction - I take it at completely arbitrary times and often have weeks, and occasionally months, in which I don't take it at all - and it doesn't have any of the bad side effects that I suffered with two other prescriptions that my doctor tried first. I'd hope that anyone who takes Adderall would have as much control over it as I feel that I have, but even if they didn't, I wouldn't arrest them simply because their reactions are different than mine.

I now use a drug called Provigil which is a non-stimulant drug that keeps you awake and alert. The experts have yet to figure out why but I find it to be much more like coke than any f the amphetamines that I've tried. Less speedy and less noticeable but very potent. Expensive too.

Again, depends on the person. There's a med called Strattera that one of my friends swears by, and says causes her to feel like she's taken coke (which she's done before). Strattera is one of the meds my doctor prescribed before Adderall. It was awful. I took it for two days, and it caused me so much pain that you'd literally have to pay me thousands of dollars to ever take it again. Different person, different outcome. But if you arrested me for taking Strattera, I'd call you absolutely insane.