The Evolution of Mexico

[rocazares]

I saw on CNN that the investigators on that case have disappeared.

Bro, the body appear today, he get killed ...

F***!!!!

[88Comrade2000]

The Mexican elites are well protected. The rest of in control of the drug lords.

Frankly, I see Mexico probably being the next country where our troops will have to go.

[skinfan133]

We bumped funding,plus there is a war between drug lords who are better armed than ever.

^this

I am not exaggerating when I say that these cartels are often better equipped and trained than most sovereign nation's armed forces. Some of these cartels have fleets of submarines. You didn't misread that.

Unfortunately, I think our nation is going to eventually intervene militarily on behalf of our southern neighbors within the next 15 years... Honestly though, if the conflict starts spilling over onto American soil wholesale, I see two options. Legalize drugs or fight an all out war.

[Oldskool]

Mexico 2010 = Columbia 1990

[twa]

Mexico 2010 = Columbia 1990

WELL Colombia worked thru it,but just like then we are funding both sides.

[Hubbs]

Bro, the body appear today, he get killed ...

F***!!!!

Jesus. Has anyone else taken over, or is everyone afraid that they'll be next?

[twa]

Jesus. Has anyone else taken over, or is everyone afraid that they'll be next?

Yes there are other investigators, with hopefully better security.

[rocazares]

Jesus. Has anyone else taken over, or is everyone afraid that they'll be next?

Yesterday a mayor get killed on the road between Tamaulipas and Monterrey, his little daughter (ten years old) survive the attack.

All the people are paranoid, because the cartels appear now are targeting civilians to inflict fear and power, like some said in the thread, this is terrorism.

[Ryman of the North]

I can see Canada and the US getting involved. Its disgusting that we havent already.

[visionary]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/08/30/mexico.kingpin.arrested/index.html?hpt=T2

Police: American-born drug kingpin arrested in Mexico

(CNN) -- American-born Edgar Valdez Villarreal, believed to be one of Mexico's most ruthless drug traffickers, was captured Monday, Mexican authorities said.

Federal police made the capture, though the exact location and timing of it were not immediately known.

The arrest, a high-profile win for Mexican authorities, followed "intelligence work" that began in June 2009, federal police said in a statement.

His capture came after a shootout, according to Viviana Macias, a spokeswoman with the federal attorney general's office.

Valdez, who is known as "La Barbie" because of his blue eyes and fair complexion, was a one-time top lieutenant of Mexico's most wanted man, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

[Hubbs]

All the people are paranoid, because the cartels appear now are targeting civilians to inflict fear and power, like some said in the thread, this is terrorism.

This is the very definition of terrorism. I hope you're in a safe area.

[Destino]

I can see Canada and the US getting involved. Its disgusting that we havent already.

I'm sure they already are just not publicly. Some battles Mexico needs to win for itself or it will be used by the cartels as evidence that the government can't keep it together. Mexico needs to step up the fight and become more aggressive and more willing to employ military weaponry and tactics.

Make no mistake about it Cartels are one hell of an opponent to have to deal with. Flush with cash, access to officials at every level, and maintaining a ruthless army that is for all intents and purposes invisible. I'd even go as far as placing dead or alive bounties on every major player identified by the government.

This is a war that Mexico has to win and not simply battle into a stalemate.

[twa]

They are working at it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11132589

Mexico sacks 10% of police force in corruption probe

More than 1,000 others were facing disciplinary action and could also lose their jobs, he added.

Announcing the dismissals, Mr Rosas said none of the sacked officers would be allowed to work in police forces at local, state or federal levels.

At a news conference, he said some had been accused of having links to drug cartels in Ciudad Juarez, the country's most violent city.

The commissioner said this was only the first stage of a purge of Mexico's forces.

[Destino]

If 10% is just the first stage... how friggin corrupt was the federal police force? Corruption typically means buying off a few key players not a massive chunk of the entire police force.

[Ryman of the North]

I'm sure they already are just not publicly. Some battles Mexico needs to win for itself or it will be used by the cartels as evidence that the government can't keep it together. Mexico needs to step up the fight and become more aggressive and more willing to employ military weaponry and tactics.

Make no mistake about it Cartels are one hell of an opponent to have to deal with. Flush with cash, access to officials at every level, and maintaining a ruthless army that is for all intents and purposes invisible. I'd even go as far as placing dead or alive bounties on every major player identified by the government.

This is a war that Mexico has to win and not simply battle into a stalemate.

We need to openly support them, they need to openly attack the cartels, to me its on the level of a civil war, whats funny is that the cartels avoid the resort areas because they dont wnat to lose the hearts and mind of the people. whats also funny is I think they know that if and when americans are killed, there will be a violent response.

I still have many friends and contacts in the private security sector and some work in mexico. I'll be honest 8 years ago when I got out I laughed when some of the guys said they were gonna go work in mexico because it was set to boom. at the time most of us worked in other south american locations. sure enough now some of those guys make some serious bank, of course some of them have been killed so its a wash. truth be told there is a serious problem right now in that many of these cartels have the same military training that used to only be available to the good guys. worse yet they now outgun the good guys as well.

[Ryman of the North]

If 10% is just the first stage... how friggin corrupt was the federal police force? Corruption typically means buying off a few key players not a massive chunk of the entire police force.

the Corruption is on a level that is incomprehensible to a norte americano, lol

One of my best friends was working in ciudad Juarez and he said they were told that under no circumstances were they to surrender their weapons to uniformed police until they had confirmed with the base camp that the policia was legit. He also said they had no problems buying weapons because there was a military base nearby where you could buy almost anything.

pretty scary stuff and only gonna get worse.

[visionary]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2014610,00.html?hpt=T2

Mexico's Next War of Independence: Against the Narcos?

The Ecuadorean government couldn't get its citizen out of Mexico fast enough. The young man had been making his way to the U.S. last week when he and 72 fellow Latin American migrants, he told authorities, were abducted by one of Mexico's most vicious drug cartels, the Zetas, in the northeastern border state of Tamaulipas. When the migrants refused to pay ransom, the narcos shot each of them in the head at a remote ranch house, leaving their corpses in heaps inside a grain barn. Only the Ecuadorean, who was shot in the neck but played dead, survived. He was put under Mexican military protection.

But Ecuadorean officials whisked him back home early Monday morning — and who can blame them? A day after last week's Tamaulipas massacre, believed to be the worst drug-related crime ever in Mexico, a state investigator probing the atrocity, Roberto Suárez, and a police officer accompanying him went missing. The only thing more troubling is how little a surprise that was: Mexican cops, detectives and judges are often murdered while working narco cases, as are witnesses supposedly under government protection. After a top drug lord was killed in a shoot-out with federal agents late last year, officials in the administration of Mexican President Felipe Calderón were even clueless enough to trumpet the identity of a Mexican marine who died in the operation — and narcos then murdered his unprotected mother and sister in retaliation.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/31/mexico.bar.attack/index.html?hpt=T2

Cancun, Mexico, bar bombed; 8 dead

Eight people died early Tuesday after attackers hurled several Molotov ****tails into a Cancun, Mexico, bar, the state attorney general said.

Six women and two men, all Mexican nationals and employees of the tavern, were killed in the 1:30 a.m. strike, now under investigation by judicial police, according to a release from Francisco Alor Quezada, attorney general for the state of Quintana Roo.

Eight men hurled the explosives at the bar and fled in vehicles, the release said. No shots were fired. Although the tavern is just 5 kilometers from the city's tourist stretch, it sits apart from the area frequented by tourists, and the clientele is composed of locals, it said.

[JMS]

the Corruption is on a level that is incomprehensible to a norte americano, lol

Violence might be worse in Mexico, but as far as corruption goes Mexico is pretty far behind the United States.

If you take all the Mexican corruption it likely is a pale shadow to the corruption which American experienced just in the last 8 years in agragate dollars..

What did we spend again on the Iraq War? 3 Trillion dollars estamated by nobel prize winning economists? Why? What were the estimated costs of that war on the eve of invasion again? Wolfowitz claimed we could do it for a few Billion. Off by 3 orders of magnatued...

Where did all that money go? No clue. We too transfered money from the Federal Reserve by the Pallet full, handing it out to people in duffle bags with no records. Billions of dollars..

What about the Katrina clean up? Same story.

What about Bush's healthcare reform of 2006...Billy Tauzin find me one Mexican official who cost his government 800 billion dollars in 2006 and then resigned form office to take a lucrative job with the Insurance companies he was trying to regulate?

Jack Abrahmhoff. 300 different counts of corruption, and what happenned to those cases? NADA.... Jack quietly went to jail for a few months and everything else went away... Jack was even linked to a murder, but nothing happenned.

One of my best friends was working in ciudad Juarez and he said they were told that under no circumstances were they to surrender their weapons to uniformed police until they had confirmed with the base camp that the policia was legit. He also said they had no problems buying weapons because there was a military base nearby where you could buy almost anything.

pretty scary stuff and only gonna get worse.

I don't know about worse. It's pretty bad already. Ultimatly though the government south of the boarder is a cleptocracy and everybody knows it. That government will eventually go away and Mexico will become part of the US. I see that occuring in the next 4 decades. Shorter term, the violence and corrupton are about as bad as it can get.

[visionary]

That government will eventually go away and Mexico will become part of the US.

You seriously believe that?

I mean, I know a lot of people joke about something like that, but I've never seen anyone insist that it will actually happen.

[mcsluggo]

Violence might be worse in Mexico, but as far as corruption goes Mexico is pretty far behind the United States.

If you take all the Mexican corruption it likely is a pale shadow to the corruption which American experienced just in the last 8 years in agragate dollars..

What did we spend again on the Iraq War? 3 Trillion dollars estamated by nobel prize winning economists? Why? What were the estimated costs of that war on the eve of invasion again? Wolfowitz claimed we could do it for a few Billion. Off by 3 orders of magnatued...

Where did all that money go? No clue. We too transfered money from the Federal Reserve by the Pallet full, handing it out to people in duffle bags with no records. Billions of dollars..

What about the Katrina clean up? Same story.

What about Bush's healthcare reform of 2006...Billy Tauzin find me one Mexican official who cost his government 800 billion dollars in 2006 and then resigned form office to take a lucrative job with the Insurance companies he was trying to regulate?

Jack Abrahmhoff. 300 different counts of corruption, and what happenned to those cases? NADA.... Jack quietly went to jail for a few months and everything else went away... Jack was even linked to a murder, but nothing happenned.

I don't know about worse. It's pretty bad already. Ultimatly though the government south of the boarder is a cleptocracy and everybody knows it. That government will eventually go away and Mexico will become part of the US. I see that occuring in the next 4 decades. Shorter term, the violence and corrupton are about as bad as it can get.

this is just a ridiculous post. Sorry.

are you honestly arguig that the US government under GW Bush was more corrupt than the Mexican government?

[Ryman of the North]

Violence might be worse in Mexico, but as far as corruption goes Mexico is pretty far behind the United States.

If you take all the Mexican corruption it likely is a pale shadow to the corruption which American experienced just in the last 8 years in agragate dollars..

What did we spend again on the Iraq War? 3 Trillion dollars estamated by nobel prize winning economists? Why? What were the estimated costs of that war on the eve of invasion again? Wolfowitz claimed we could do it for a few Billion. Off by 3 orders of magnatued...

Where did all that money go? No clue. We too transfered money from the Federal Reserve by the Pallet full, handing it out to people in duffle bags with no records. Billions of dollars..

What about the Katrina clean up? Same story.

What about Bush's healthcare reform of 2006...Billy Tauzin find me one Mexican official who cost his government 800 billion dollars in 2006 and then resigned form office to take a lucrative job with the Insurance companies he was trying to regulate?

Jack Abrahmhoff. 300 different counts of corruption, and what happenned to those cases? NADA.... Jack quietly went to jail for a few months and everything else went away... Jack was even linked to a murder, but nothing happenned.

I don't know about worse. It's pretty bad already. Ultimatly though the government south of the boarder is a cleptocracy and everybody knows it. That government will eventually go away and Mexico will become part of the US. I see that occuring in the next 4 decades. Shorter term, the violence and corrupton are about as bad as it can get.

The corruption in mexico is cultural and starts from the ground up, in the states you need to have some power before you can be corrupt. its not the same thing. not even remotely.

as for mexico becoming part of the US? I cant see it, for several reasons.

1- latino pride, they dont wnat to be american, they want to be mexican.

2- the sheer money involved is too much for this to be feasible

3- the infrastructure simply isnt there, I would be more likely to believe canada would join before mexico and I know we wont.

[Destino]

this is just a ridiculous post. Sorry.

are you honestly arguig that the US government under GW Bush was more corrupt than the Mexican government?

The US is corrupt as hell and anyone that tells you different isn't paying attention. If you do business with a local government you hit the wall of the good ol boy network or you get steered into doing business with their friends and family as often as not. Judges have been caught working with for profit prisons to keep them full and paid. Congress is corrupt, I doubt you'd argue otherwise. Businesses have been selecting their own regulators and then paying them off after they "retire" from the government for decades. Same goes for military officers and their much talked about golden parachutes.

In sheer DOLLARS JMS might be right. Keep in mind however that there is a lot more money here than in Mexico: 14.3 trillion versus 1.085 trillion. That is a hell of a difference. When you have corruption at the top level here those numbers add up fast and I don't think it depends on who is sitting in the white house so GW Bush really doesn't make me think it was better or worse.

But does that matter to the average man? Certainly not as much as what they have going on in Mexico!

Corruption is ubiquitous in Mexico. It's expected and is present at every level of government the average man expects to encounter in his lifetime. Everyone from the police to the people making your driver's license are likely bribed routinely. Don't know if the money adds up to as much but it is certainly more likely to be felt by the individual than it is here and it's not even close. Literally over there you don't know if the police are there to help, arrest, or kidnap you. Can you imagine living in conditions like that? They have insurance for kidnapping because it's so common and their police force is powerless (read: paid off) to stop it.

[twa]

The US is corrupt as hell and anyone that tells you different isn't paying attention.

It is still a ridiculous post...as is the aggregate dollar stipulation to excuse it.

Not even Louisiana can compete in that horse race.

[JMS]

You seriously believe that?

I mean, I know a lot of people joke about something like that, but I've never seen anyone insist that it will actually happen.

I honestly believe it's in the works. Our economies are becoming more and more linked. Used to be a joke back in the early 90's about IBM. What do you get when you merge IBM with Apple... answer IBM.

What do you get when you merge The US with Mexico... US....

Here is the playbook..... Hispanics are already like 20% of the US population. The largest minority group. That will only increase geometrically in the next decade. We will have another round of Amnesty, both parties favor it. After that occurs there will be nearly as many Mexican workers in the United States as citizens of both countries as their are in Mexco. When Regan gave amnesty back in the 1980's, the illegal immigration problem was 4 million folks. Today it's 20-28 million folks. When we have another round of amnesty say in 1011, we will have 40-50 million illegals in 2030. That will be the largest wealthiest most empowered voting block in Mexico. Today the Mexican governemnt operates voting stations in the United States to allow all their citizens here to vote. That vote is going to shortly become the largest most powerful voice in Mexican elections... As the corruption and disparity of the two countries continues, as the basketcase mexican economomy becomes more dependant upon the US economy. Mexico will just petition to become part of the US. When that occurs the US could expand our boarders down all the way to Panama pretty much. Most of the workforce from those countries all live here anyway.... It will happen, they are already having talks about it.

Why is it in our interest? #1 it makes the US economy more compeditive with China and India which will shortly displace us as the #1 economy. #2 It creats a huge economic sphere and gives our industries decades worth of work improving the infrastructure of those other countries. #3 It dramatically increases our natural resources... #4 Same justification as NAFTA... Give a Mexican dude 100$ he spends 80$'s of it on US goods. It makes a lot of sense from a US perspective to help mexico get it's economic house in order. Ultimately that's going to require us taking a more and more active role.

I think Canada is also on the same track. Although with Canada's economy currently stronger than ours, it's harder to justify as disirable on the Canadian side. I think the way that will work is eventually the French speaking canadians will leave Canada. The two states which will be left will be untenible. They will both be pulled into the United States by economic gravity which is already very pronounced.

[twa]

Eh,ya might pull in the northern half with the right inducements.

The whole?...No way Jose