WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The original title listing of this article is Let's face it: Vinny Cerrato (sort of) handed Jim Zorn a playoff team. It can be found in the Breaking News Section posted by HapHazard. This makes for an interesting debate if you're not using revisionist history or hindsight 20/20. http://redskinshogheaven.com/2009/12/14/lets-face-it-vinny-cerrato-sort-of-handed-jim-zorn-a-playoff-team.html In the aftermath of the first true beat-down of the Zorn era, we've reached a milestone of sorts: we're now at the point at which the 2009 Redskins have exceeded the accomplishments of the 2008 Redskins. It's an interesting concept. If this team wins out, they'll be 7-9. Last year's Redskins team went 8-8. Obviously here, I'm throwing out the records, and talking just about the relative accomplishments of these two teams. The Redskins are officially eliminated from playoff contention, actually, they were eliminated with Green Bay's victory last Monday night. Last year's team lost it's stranglehold on a playoff spot with a Week 13 loss to the Giants at home, and simply sealed a January at home with two losses on the road in the AFC North to follow. Both teams missed the playoffs because they missed opportunity when it came. Records aside, the most positive thing accomplished by the 2008 Redskins occurred from the second half of the Week 2 game against the Saints, when they came back and won the game, then beat the future NFC Champs by a TD at home, then went to Dallas and beat down the Cowboys before going to Philadelphia and beating the Eagles. That four game (seven halves of football) stretch was the height of the season for the Redskins in 2008. Well, if you start with the second half of the Atlanta game, I can make you a really good case that the way the team fought back in that game, then beat a playoff-bound Denver team by ten points, then held Dallas to a single score in a dominating performance at their place, and then had Philly on the ropes in the fourth quarter (in a game that, admittedly, Philadelphia was never out of). At that point, the Redskins, I think had come back to match the most impressive stretch of the 2008 season. They sat at 3-8 at that point. just 1-3 in their best stretch of the season, but I maintain that, results aside, the performance was no less impressive. Not good enough for a playoff berth, but impressive. [/Quote]Click link to continue reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I love the philosophy of "we almost won these games" with point spreads as evidence. We could of easily lost three out of our four wins this year as well. Yea we could be 7-6, but we could just as easily be 1-12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I love the philosophy of "we almost won these games" with point spreads as evidence. We could of easily lost three out of our four wins this year as well. Yea we could be 7-6, but we could just as easily be 1-12. You think we could have "easily" lost the Broncos game?...I don't, even with Orton still in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 having watched them for quite a while. It's amazing how well teams in the Nations Capital play once the 'threat' of playoffs is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The main issue that I have with his article is that he doesn't talk about the OL at all, which is still an issue. Also they are doing a better job than early on, it is still a place that needs some work. I also take exception to his assessment that the secondary is bad. It could be better (more turnovers) but overall it is a solid group. Run defense, on the other hand, needs some work. But, I think a lot of the work that Vinny has done to improve the depth on this team has shown up well. I know it galls a lot of people who hate Vinny and everything he represents, but he mostly comes out of this season looking fairly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 God Skins fans are so easy to impress. They go 2-3 in the last 5 games and now we are saying that Vinny gave Zorn a playoff caliber team. Even though a good deal of that "playoff caliber team" that Vinny and Synder is on the bench. And I bet you a month ago he was on the 'Fire Vinny" bandwagon as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightbird Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I love the philosophy of "we almost won these games" with point spreads as evidence. We could of easily lost three out of our four wins this year as well. Yea we could be 7-6, but we could just as easily be 1-12. What he said. It seems like every other year we turn into a real football team at some point, and go on a "run" where we win or almost win a few games in a row. Then that turns into false hope, which convinces our FO that we're "two players away, a lucky bounce here or there." And so they get out the old checkbook and sign the best players they can find at those positions, even if it means cutting depth guys or trading picks, because who needs backups and who needs draft picks? 5-11, 9-7, 6-10, 8-8, rinse repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 We were not a playoff team at the beginning of this year because of the O line (and maybe Portis) Samuels and Thomas could not be counted on. Heyer was a pretty big question mark as was M. Williams. That meant that over half our line was indangered. He found a good off the street vet in Jones midseason to fill in and we have muddled through elsewhere. They've done a decent job the last two weeks in holding on, but without a line that was at least average and this one wasn't we were never a playoff calibre team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 But, I think a lot of the work that Vinny has done to improve the depth on this team has shown up well. I know it galls a lot of people who hate Vinny and everything he represents, but he mostly comes out of this season looking fairly good. Actually i think this is an indictment on Vinny, because the young and hungry backups are playing much better than the so-called veteren, high salary, oft injured, starters. This should serve as a lesson to Danny. And BTW, this was never a playoff built team. We probably won't be for another 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsarethebest Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I've never been anti-Vinny in the first place, which probably makes me a rarity on this board. I've always felt the team's problems stemmed not from a lack of talent/physical tools but from A) a lack of mental toughness and horrendous play-calling. The Sherm Lewis hiring fixed B and as for A, that's more to do with Zorn than anyone else. If anything, I think that the players have a lit fire under their own you-know-what's now that they know jobs will be on the line and careers will be made or broken. It's too bad Zorn couldn't have fueled a similar fire when the season started. But yes, we definitely have the talent for a playoff caliber team. Sore subject, but in fact if we had replaced Suisham three weeks ago we would be in the thick of the wild card race. If the rumors I'm hearing are true, i.e., Zorn wanted to keep Suisham but was overruled by Vinny or Danny, then that just highlights where the fault really lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Good lord. If the fan base is starting to feel this way, so will the owner The owner will thusly keep things the same, because although the Redskins are having another losing season "if it ain't broke dont fix it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 God Skins fans are so easy to impress. They go 2-3 in the last 5 games and now we are saying that Vinny gave Zorn a playoff caliber team. Even though a good deal of that "playoff caliber team" that Vinny and Synder is on the bench. And I bet you a month ago he was on the 'Fire Vinny" bandwagon as well. hahaha, right!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I've never been anti-Vinny in the first place, which probably makes me a rarity on this board. I've always felt the team's problems stemmed not from a lack of talent/physical tools but from A) a lack of mental toughness and horrendous play-calling. The Sherm Lewis hiring fixed B and as for A, that's more to do with Zorn than anyone else. If anything, I think that the players have a lit fire under their own you-know-what's now that they know jobs will be on the line and careers will be made or broken. It's too bad Zorn couldn't have fueled a similar fire when the season started. But yes, we definitely have the talent for a playoff caliber team. Sore subject, but in fact if we had replaced Suisham three weeks ago we would be in the thick of the wild card race. If the rumors I'm hearing are true, i.e., Zorn wanted to keep Suisham but was overruled by Vinny or Danny, then that just highlights where the fault really lies. 1. The fact that Zorn was in over his head as a play caller and HC falls on Vinny's shoulders. Its his job to pick the right guy for the job. 2. Sherm Lewis, as much of a difference he has made, has only stopped the bleeding on offense. However, there still needs to be some fundamental changes to how we construct our team and evaluate talent. This also falls on Vinny. 3. Yeah, we have seen improvement in the offense for the past 4 and a half games, but remember we're still 4-9. We are not a playoff team. I do like how the young talent has stepped up, but its foolish to think that we are one or two players away from a SB. Fact remains that we need to unload quite a few vets at season's end and retool through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST is my boy Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 You dont have a playoff team with the offensive line we had at the beginning of the season, or now for that matter. While the line is playing a little better right now, Jason is still getting totally destroyed out there. I mean atleast once a game, I think he might be out for the season after the killshots this guy is taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkSkins Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 NOT a playoff team roster! Definitely a playoff team's salary. The over thirty crowd needs to go and take their pensions with them. The only exceptions are: Albright, Carter, Cartwright, Fletcher, Jones, Smith, and Yoder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsarethebest Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 To clarify, though, I definitely DON'T subscribe to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it".... Definite moves need to be made to strengthen the O-line. And I think QB is still a ? mark. But based on the overall caliber of play in the NFC this year, we could clearly have squeaked into the playoffs if we had more competent play-calling in the beginning, if we had somehow found a way to solve our inability to score points sooner (maybe like in the pre-season ha!) rather than later. Clearly no SINGLE person is to blame, but Zorn IMO shoulders more of the blame than, say, Vinny. Another way of putting it: We are a 9-7, maybe even 10-6 team. Now that in most instances actually IS a playoff team. And we all know that in the playoffs, anything can happen. Now should that of course be our goal (10-6)?... Of course not. Everyone, from fan to management, fervently envisions ways to mold our Skins into a 14-2 powerhouse. But the fact of the matter is, bad coaching/playcalling (and a few unforgivable lapses in execution, e.g., Suisham's misses) turned what could have been a 9-7 playofff team into a likely 5-11 team hoping for a top 5 draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 What an insane thing to suggest. This team does not have a playoff roster. It never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick7423 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 This team may not be play off caliber at this point, but to think that Vinny handed Zorn a play off team is ludicrous. All of these so called play off players are injured and the back-ups are the ones that are winning the games. These are the guys that are hungry for play time, show up at practice (Portis, you reading this?) and actually prepare for the games. Many of the guys playing are mid-season pickups for gods sake! It is true this is all Vinny's fault, he signed high priced players with inflated ego's, pampered his 'stars', and took away the coaches ability to actually coach. The current roster is not bound by those coaching restrictions and the results are obvious, consistently good performances on the field. This team is actually competing and playing hard at a professional level with the backups! It is more than obvious what Vinny did... NOTHING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 We were not a playoff team at the beginning of this year because of the O line (and maybe Portis) Samuels and Thomas could not be counted on. Heyer was a pretty big question mark as was M. Williams. That meant that over half our line was indangered. He found a good off the street vet in Jones midseason to fill in and we have muddled through elsewhere.They've done a decent job the last two weeks in holding on, but without a line that was at least average and this one wasn't we were never a playoff calibre team. =1 yeah Cerrato gave Zorn.. playoff level Defense playoff level offensive skill position players bottom 5 level offensive line players... bottom 5 level place kicker... without an offensive line there isnt much you can do to win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightbird Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Is it worth pointing out that before we decided to interview Zorn for head coach, he was hired to be our offensive coordinator? Meaning, if Vinny had his way, we'd have Zorn as our OC and playcaller, working under head coach Steve Spagnuolo (headed for 2-14) or Jim Fassel (headed for 0-0). Sorry, but this whole operation is put together in a slapdash way, and even a really good coach would have trouble winning here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 We were not a playoff team at the beginning of this year because of the O line (and maybe Portis) Samuels and Thomas could not be counted on. Heyer was a pretty big question mark as was M. Williams. That meant that over half our line was indangered. He found a good off the street vet in Jones midseason to fill in and we have muddled through elsewhere.They've done a decent job the last two weeks in holding on, but without a line that was at least average and this one wasn't we were never a playoff calibre team. Those saying that Samuels couldn't be counted on are speaking purely on hindsight rather than any real insight. What knocked him out was something that wasn't predictable by anyone. It was known by the FO that Thomas couldn't be counted on the whole season, which is why there was a push to get Rinehart up to speed (since in the offseason it was judged he wasn't ready to take over either guard spot at that point) so that when Thomas gave up the ghost, he would be ready. Unfortunately we also had the dreadful luck that Rinehart also got hurt. Really RT was the only real question mark coming into the season for the OL, and it is still a question mark. Heyer is decent, but there is a lot of room for improvement. It doesn't look like Williams will be the answer there either, as much as the FO and coaching staff would like him to be. Now Rabach will be a FA and they need to decide on what to do with him. It doesn't look good about Samuels coming back and they still need to deal with RT. A lot of work needs to be done in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Typical knee-jerk reaction to a win...:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The team knew about Samuels condition for years now. Plus I believe he had another round of offseason surgery. So to say that couldn't be predicted is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Is it worth pointing out that before we decided to interview Zorn for head coach, he was hired to be our offensive coordinator?Meaning, if Vinny had his way, we'd have Zorn as our OC and playcaller, working under head coach Steve Spagnuolo (headed for 2-14) or Jim Fassel (headed for 0-0). Sorry, but this whole operation is put together in a slapdash way, and even a really good coach would have trouble winning here. Spag got a horrible team.. i am sure he would have done better record wise if he was the head coach of the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I disagree. Sure, we made the playoffs, but barley. Unfortunatley, that "plyoff team" had the same holes in it that caused them to be knocked form the plays not once... but twice. I think "playoff" is a reach. "Talented" and "unfocused" define this team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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