HRNY4ZRNY Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Chances of Snyder giving up total control to a GM- 1% chance Chances Snyder fires Vinny- I'd say 35% chance Chances Snyder could hire a quality GM that still will work and have Snyder involved- 20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraw238 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Get Vinny the hell out of townGet Danny the hell out of decision making Hire a GM who knows what he is doing and lets do things the right way, not the loser Snyderatto way Yes. Big deal that Vinny's draft picks from 2008 are showing promise 2/3's into a 4-9 season. Even if all 3 picks turn into Pro Bowl players we are still a 4-9 team. Vinny has to take ownership of the whole roster and the season; not just glimpses of promise in a 2-3 stretch. Its great that Vinny suggested getting Sherm Lewis to call plays but that was only neccesary because his choice for head coach was in over his head. It was a hail mary move that seems to have been caught. Now what, we let Vinny address the O-line and wait 1 1/2 years for those guys to show some potential. Personally, I don't like the odds that Vinny is the guy to build a perennial contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saqs Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Stay the course. Let it grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRNY4ZRNY Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Stay the course. Let it grow. Short sweet and to the point. Vinny said it usually takes 3 years for WR's to become effective. (We see guys like Desean Jackson and freak out) Zorn says it takes 3 years to know and run our offense at a high caliber (We see Flacco and Ryan and freak out) Now Flacco and Ryan dont look as great as they did. It is confusing but Id rather just keep pushing forward. If we could blow it up the right way hire a great GM, HC and get a great QB than of course I would do it. I just think Id rather have what we have right now than blow it up and be worse off. Cause we probably would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Answer Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hire a competent GM, leave everything to him and walk away. Agreed. That is it. Zorn... Campbell... Cerrato in a different position??? I have thoughts (that could change depending on these last three games) but won't be tore up one way or another. What I do know is that Snyder needs to stop running things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hire a competent GM, leave everything to him and walk away. This is it - by removing Dan Snyder from football decisions the main root cause of our team's problems is addressed. Several of you are now hesitant to see Vinny fired, mostly because his recent picks are playing well. I agree that this is a good thing and demonstrates that he has been a decent talent evaluator. However, it looks to me as if he doesn't really get the big picture (OL, Zorn as HC, sacks n stuff). We need a GM who sees the big picture and anticipates needs before they become needs. We also need someone strong enough to handle the Dan. Vinny is not that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hire a competent GM, leave everything to him and walk away. Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRNY4ZRNY Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 This is it - by removing Dan Snyder from football decisions the main root cause of our team's problems is addressed.Several of you are now hesitant to see Vinny fired, mostly because his recent picks are playing well. I agree that this is a good thing and demonstrates that he has been a decent talent evaluator. However, it looks to me as if he doesn't really get the big picture (OL, Zorn as HC, sacks n stuff). We need a GM who sees the big picture and anticipates needs before they become needs. We also need someone strong enough to handle the Dan. Vinny is not that person. Good point- Acts not reacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 This is it - by removing Dan Snyder from football decisions the main root cause of our team's problems is addressed.Several of you are now hesitant to see Vinny fired, mostly because his recent picks are playing well. I agree that this is a good thing and demonstrates that he has been a decent talent evaluator. However, it looks to me as if he doesn't really get the big picture (OL, Zorn as HC, sacks n stuff). We need a GM who sees the big picture and anticipates needs before they become needs. We also need someone strong enough to handle the Dan. Vinny is not that person. Does that person exist?? This super GM that will lead the team to the promise land, draft great players and hold dan back?? Let's face it, Dan Snyder WILL NEVER give up trying to be an owner/GM. He's not going to change his ways. For once in a long while the redskins are showing some life. Now if is fool's gold or a stepping stone to a great season next year, that is still to be seen. But, what if they actually found something here just because its the luck of the draw? Why not give it just one more year, they have a full draft and they can resupply the oline with better players and backups. Why not give it one more year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRIEL1 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ceratto- Has to go. 2 half decent drafts do not make up for 10 yrs of bad drafts. Plus I think we all know he's been the bug in DS's ear (ie; Marty), He's a yes man. We need someone who can stand up to DS at times and say "we don't need them" or "save your money friend." JC- I think is gone. He's not happy with the how the team treated him. Hire Shanahan as HC/GM Bring in Kubiak as Asst. HC Bring in Shanahan Jr. as OC Keep Sherm Lewis as Sr. OC. If he's willing to stay and help out, or just go back to bingo. Bring in Alex Gibbs as OL. Kubiak was Shanahans OC in Denver and they had great down the field passes and great running plays. Some people (Kubiak, Norv, W.Phillips) are meant to be coordinators. Gotta bring Shanahan Jr. cause he's family. Gotta try to talk Lewis into staying cause he seems to have a brilliant mind and might add to the offense more. Funny tid bit...both Shanahan and Lewis were with the 49ers under Walsh. Lastly you have to bring in Alex Gibbs simply to create the awsome offensive blocking scheme that Denver had. We will be able to run all over people. Otherwise Pay whatever it takes to bring in Marty or Gruden. The only two who would not have a problem telling VC to pack sand or tell DS to let them coach the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Keep the FO...One of the main issues with this organization is the lack of stability This makes my head explode. The ONLY thing constant through 10 years of futility under Snyder has been Cerrato. He needs to be removed and replaced by someone who knows what they're doing. There is NO reason to keep Cerrato. Stability is useless when there is a moron in charge! If it was my choice, Campbell stays. I've kinda been back and forth on that one, but I think he should be back. It doesn't mean that he never gets competition, but right now he's going to be the best we will have in the near term, and if you bring back Zorn, you need to bring back his QB. Really, I don't want to fall for this one again. But I am really starting to not hate Jason Campbell. In the 7 games since Sherm Lewis took over as OC (not "consultant"), Campbells numbers look like this: 153/235 65.1% 1755 yrds 11 TDs 6 Ints. Over a full season, thats 4055 yrds, 25 TDs and 13 Ints. That's a Pro Bowl Season. Now I am not saying Campbell is going to be a huge star -- he won't ever be a top 5 QB in this league. But he can perform. He can be Matt Hasselback. FA: First off is to find out if Samuels and Portis are going to come back and base decisions on that. If Samuels doesn't come back, I might look to see if Levi Jones is a decent stopgap until a replacement can be found. It is uncertain if we should let Rabach go. He's the glue that holds this line together, but he's getting old and we could be better there. Rogers is probably gone. Rocky stays. I don't see much that would help this team in FA. No big FAs. Fill in the gaps. Draft: OL needs to be the focus. At the very least we need to draft C and a RT who could grow into a LT. A running back should be a focus, at the very least as a changeup to Portis and at most as an eventual replacement for him. That could dovetail into punt returner as well. Okung or trade down. Do not draft CJ Spiller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Does that person exist?? This super GM that will lead the team to the promise land, draft great players and hold dan back?? Let's face it, Dan Snyder WILL NEVER give up trying to be an owner/GM. He's not going to change his ways. For once in a long while the redskins are showing some life. Now if is fool's gold or a stepping stone to a great season next year, that is still to be seen. But, what if they actually found something here just because its the luck of the draw? Why not give it just one more year, they have a full draft and they can resupply the oline with better players and backups. Why not give it one more year? You make a really good point that is hard to refute - Dan is not going to stop meddling, and the magic GM is going to be next to impossible to find. I concede that these are truths. The main problem with our team seems to involve a lack of consistency and stability and a focus on big-name players rather than a team concept. As far as I can tell, these things are related to Dan Snyder's interference in football operations. The OP was not "what is feasible to do" but rather "what would you do to fix things?" So, my fan fantasy is The Dan wising up and stepping away from football operations. The right GM (whether or not he exists) could manage up to The Dan in a manner that allows him to feel involved in decision-making without actually letting him make stupid decisions that result in trouble. You're right that this is highly unlikely to happen, but I still want it to. Giving the current regime another year is a possibility, but the whole playcalling mess needs resolution and that won't be easy. In my mind it has to be consolidated so that one person is responsible in all situations. If Bingo Sherm is here to consult, then a succession plan should be in place so he can teach Zorn the ropes and then transition playcalling responsibility back to him. I actually think that Zorn has the potential to learn better playcalling and game management - he was obviously overwhelmed. Also, given that we were told a 3-year timeframe would be needed to implement our new O, keeping him for next year makes some sense. We could see how he does with the O fully installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Answer Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Keep the FO. One of the main issues with this organization is the lack of stability. ????????????????????????????? The ineptitude of the front office is the reason we have lacked stability. The front office is the only constant. Keeping Dan (w/Vinny) in charge is going to result in future instability with the players and coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailskins11 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ceratto- Has to go. 2 half decent drafts do not make up for 10 yrs of bad drafts. Plus I think we all know he's been the bug in DS's ear (ie; Marty), He's a yes man. We need someone who can stand up to DS at times and say "we don't need them" or "save your money friend."JC- I think is gone. He's not happy with the how the team treated him. Hire Shanahan as HC/GM Bring in Kubiak as Asst. HC Bring in Shanahan Jr. as OC Keep Sherm Lewis as Sr. OC. If he's willing to stay and help out, or just go back to bingo. Bring in Alex Gibbs as OL. Kubiak was Shanahans OC in Denver and they had great down the field passes and great running plays. Some people (Kubiak, Norv, W.Phillips) are meant to be coordinators. Gotta bring Shanahan Jr. cause he's family. Gotta try to talk Lewis into staying cause he seems to have a brilliant mind and might add to the offense more. Funny tid bit...both Shanahan and Lewis were with the 49ers under Walsh. Lastly you have to bring in Alex Gibbs simply to create the awsome offensive blocking scheme that Denver had. We will be able to run all over people. Otherwise Pay whatever it takes to bring in Marty or Gruden. The only two who would not have a problem telling VC to pack sand or tell DS to let them coach the team. That is a very nice setup and if a major change is made, I think that is the way to do it. I would prefer to keep the Sherms together on offense. Let Zorn go and Hire Jerry Gray as Head Coach on a 1 year basis. Let him decide if Blache stays and give it one year to see how it works. Make it clear that you have one year and the structural setup is similar so it could work. My gut tells me that Danny boy is considering something like this. Gray turned down a HC job in college for a reason and it isn't to be our D-backs coach next year. For the record, Vinny deserves 1 more draft class to make the OLine right. Bash away but the guy has made some great draft moves and it's time people realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow41 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 So the first half of last season we started well, then collapsed, and everyone was pissed. Now it seems 2009 is the opposite, and everyone is happy. The common denominator: a team that, as constructed, is not a playoff contender. No matter how impressed people are this morning, they are what their record says they are. I'm with Mark the Homer, see Post #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Zorn needs to stay and be surrounded with better assistants. Sherm Smith obviously needs to stay and should speak up about what he thinks about the coaching staff. Danny Smith needs to go. Randle El needs to go. Portis needs to come back in great shape or he shoud be released in camp. If he doesn't show a burst or the ability to break tackles, bye-bye and thank you. Moss and Cooley should be trade bait for more draft picks. Cooley should command a 2nd round pick. Moss probably at best a 4th or 5th. Don't give him away but shop him. Campbell needs to stay but Brennan needs to be pushed into the picture if we think he has a future. If not, then get someone who is capable of playing QB in the NFL. Marko Mitchell needs to play these last few games. Deactivate Randle El and let Marko play. Carlos will likely be gone. And finally, Vinnie needs to go but I don't see him being totally gone. Change his title and bring in an experienced football guy to oversee things. This person also needs to be the face of the franchise and speak frequently about the direction the team is going in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkfan63 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hire a competent GM, leave everything to him and walk away. What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Fire Zorn and Cerrato and hire a GM. Thank Campbell for becoming viable trade bait and deal him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emor09 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 2008 offseason: bring in pass catchers 2009 offseason: bring in defensive lineman 2010 offseason: bring in offensive lineman i want Shanahan, and keep Campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailToTheRedskins14 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I say keep Zorn, Vinny, Campbell, and obviously Lewis. Give them all another year at the least. Zorn is our guy. Back in the days when coaches weren't expected to win immediately, canning a guy after two years was unheard of. And that usually worked out. We've seen improvement and fighting, I say keep 'em in charge. Sherm Lewis with a full year will be even better. I think we'll see some two TE sets next year that will work great with Davis and Cooley. Kelly, Mitchell, and Thomas will also be factors next year, along with Moss and maybe Randle El off the bench. I think we can get rid of Portis, or make him understand we only want him back in a much smaller role. Using one RB in the NFL is a thing of the past. Tell Portis we want to get him about 8-10 touches per game. If he complains, cut him. Keep Vinny, see how he drafts this year. The last two drafts, which are officially the only two he's been in complete control over, have been pretty good overall. Keep JC, at the worst we could just rent him for a year while we let Colt Brennan and a rookie QB compete for 2nd string next year and then compete to start the following year. Or we find out JC is our guy. Or JC performs well, but we want to go with the rookie and we get a draft pick or two for Campbell. Just getting rid of him now doesn't really do anything for us. Players we should be excited to see return next year (maybe not EXCITED for all of 'em, but interested). Also, I think this group is kinda our "young core" group of players : Haynesworth Brian Orakpo Justin Tryon DeAngelo Hall (kinda borderline) Chris Horton Jeremy Jarmon Rob Jackson (I think he'll be good) Kevin Barnes Landry (if he continues to perform well at SS) Devin Thomas Malcom Kelly Marko Mitchell Fred Davis Chris Cooley Who knows if OLB Henson that we drafted last year will do anything. We do have to realize that Davis didn't get any opportunities to perform until Cooley got hurt. Might be the same if Fletcher gets hurt, but that's all speculation. I just feel like our first and second year players are the best on our team (as well as the no-name free agent pickups we've had during the year). Definitely need OL help in the draft this year. If something better pops up in the first round at DL or FS, you definitely have to take an OL in the 2nd. A quicker, speed back wouldn't hurt either if we can find one. Good drafts would be kinda : 1 - OL, 2 - RB/QB, 4 - OL, 5 - OLB, 7 - BPA (OLB/OL/CB). Or if one of the top 2 or 3 players fall to us wherever we pick, we take them and go OL in second and fourth, then try to find an OLB/CB/QB/RB in the other two rounds, whichever position has BPA. And just keep it going. Again, Sherm Lewis hasn't been here for 6 months and he's making us look very respectable with someone else's playbook (for the most part). That, to me, shows we could be much better with a full offseason of him on our coaching staff (whatever the hell you wanna call the position). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt'n Obvious Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I still want Vinny Cerrato gone. Yeah so the 2008 first rounders are starting to make plays, but I don't think that should excuse every other terrible draft/acquisition. I'd like to have a GM that isn't a yes man for our owner and one that isn't afraid to tell Snyder what he doesn't want to hear. Vinny is definitely not the man for that job. Bye Bye Vinny. Thanks for stopping by. I don't think it would be the end of the world if Campbell/Zorn stayed for another year. I don't think any QB in the draft or free agency is the answer and I think Campbell can still show he has something in this offense. Zorn is a toss up at this point. If Snyder can get the big name coach he wants, then Zorn is obviously out of here, but I don't think any coach of the caliber Synder wants is going to want to come to DC. Somehow, some way, please get rid of Randle El. Keep LaRon at strong safety and figure out if Doughty or Horton can play FS. Draft OL in the draft and find some secondary help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRNY4ZRNY Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 What is a subscribed thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRNY4ZRNY Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hire a competent GM, leave everything to him and walk away. The first part of this has come true! Probably not the second part! Bump this thread see what everyone thinks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Well gee. How about, The Offseason Is for Offseason Decisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiingspadee Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Why do people want Danny Smith gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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