Am I the only one who thinks Campbell is getting better?

[Passizle]

the line will be fixed, so any QB will have a shot. brennan is fine by me, so is any other young QB that we can give a shot. frankly next year i dont care about us winning, i just wanna see us take a step in the right direction. campbell is continuing in the wrong direction IMO.

we cannot win with campbell, so if were going to fix the lines and bolster everything else, put brennan in there and see if he can do better.

it also all depends on what system were in next year. if we get rid of the WCO, campbell will have to learn another offense, and my brain cant handle the excuse wagon that will roll on when that happens lol.

I'm not saying to keep Cambeel to win. But o test the bolstered lined (IF that even happens) so we dont ruin ANOTHER QB. You camt deny that we dot have a QB friendly, grooming scenario here. While I can admit that JC has some serious pitfalls, we have trashed too many QB and seen the result for it to be a cooincidence of just drafting SOOOO many bad QB's over the years.

I gree with Jamie aproach of getting a good line with a srong rushing attack. Limit the amount of touches to said QB and let them grow in the system. You can clearly see what happens most of the time when you throw a child into the fire...

See Mark Sanchez just this year for a great example.

IMHO, I really feel that once you break a young mans psyche in this game, its really hard to come back from. And that, IMO, is EXACTLY what has happened to JC.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I'm not saying to keep Cambeel to win. But o test the bolstered lined (IF that even happens) so we dont ruin ANOTHER QB. You camt deny that we dot have a QB friendly, grooming scenario here. While I can admit that JC has some serious pitfalls, we have trashed too many QB and seen the result for it to be a cooincidence of just drafting SOOOO many bad QB's over the years.

I gree with Jamie aproach of getting a good line with a srong rushing attack. Limit the amount of touches to said QB and let them grow in the system. You can clearly see what happens most of the time when you throw a child into the fire...

See Mark Sanchez just this year for a great example.

did we really RUIN campbell? did he have so much promise and was getting hit so hard all day long? no. this is the first year, and at the end of last year that campbell ever really had a lot of pressure, and he already showed pretty much nothing other than game manager skills at that point.

the only QBs weve drafted are ramsey, campbell, and shuler, aside from late round scrubs. thats 3 QBs in 15+ years. both ramsey and campbell were considered stretches, shuler is the only legit monster failure (although campbell with what we gave up could be seen that way).

and i said already, i wont mind at all a season of 20+ picks for a rookie QB. its what happens to some of them, and thats ok. sanchez has also brought a ton of excitement to that offense, exactly what i think brennan would bring, a ton of "wow that was awesome" moments, and a ton of "oh my god what the ****" moments. im ok with that for a rookie.

anything will be more fun than watching campbell drag us through the mud in hopes we get to 8-8.

honestly, what QBs have we "ruined"? ramsey might be the only legit argument.

[SoCalSkins]

Improving from a more worthless version of himself is not sufficient.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Improving from a less worthless version of himself is not sufficient.

youve msised some legendary threads lately man. where have you been?

[SoCalSkins]

youve msised some legendary threads lately man. where have you been?

Work has been insane. Threads are the same as before.

It is the O-line, JC needs a better system. He is actually becoming a good option etc.

If the D holds every team to 5 or less each game, he might have a winning record in 3 years.

[DCMONEY]

Campbell is a solid QB. The Skins front office is to blame for the woes this season. Stevie Wonder can see that this team needed O-lineman.

[wdcredskins]

Ok... wll if all you want o consdier is TD's, then I guess Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco were some of the worst QB last yer as well... correct?

where is this guy going with this? They threw more TDs than Candle. and but but but but but...they were rookies last yr. LOL i love that.

Two rookies throwing more TDs in a "NEW SYSTEM" than 4th year veteran jason candle. DO the math buddy.

Now if you do not want to consider TDs.... most important stat for a QB, then there is no need for you to be here chatting football.

i provided those stats because somebody wanted some proof thining i was saying what i was saying without any credibility. then i post it. he realizes the facts but you for some reason is still in your little own world thinking my facts that i provided are made up. LOL

now i provided those facts because they are concrete. you know, stats you candle homers love to go by. but when it isnt in his favor, you come up with another excuse. like calling me a liar.

now i could provide more reasons why he is one of the worst startnig QB in the league but if you have set of eyes, you wouldnt need others to provide reasons.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

He is a bottom 5 NFL QB, and there is little to no improvement week-to-week.

[RocketCitySkins]

the line will be fixed, so any QB will have a shot.

Why do you think it will be fixed? Or should I say when do you think it will be fixed? There hasn't been a offensive lineman drafted in the first two rounds since 2000. It couldn't have been much worse coming into this season. Two 30 somethings who had just had two major surgeries. Signing a LG who ranked last in 2008 and a tackle who had not played since 2005. For depth we didn't have even one back-up who had played one down in the NFL in 2008.

You have more faith in this FO than I do.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Why do you think it will be fixed? Or should I say when do you think it will be fixed? There hasn't been a offensive lineman drafted in the first two rounds since 2000. It couldn't have been much worse coming into this season. Two 30 somethings who had just had two major surgeries. Signing a LG who ranked last in 2008 and a tackle who had not played since 2005. For depth we didn't have even one back-up who had played one down in the NFL in 2008.

You have more faith in this FO than I do.

vinny wont be here. if he is, were going to lose no matter what, but i truly believe vinny is gone come january.

the line will be fixed through free agency and the draft. competent lineman dont need to cost 50 mil a piece. we'll have a new offensive system, and hopefully the new football "deciderer" will find guys to fit that system.

[wdcredskins]

He is a bottom 5 NFL QB, and there is little to no improvement week-to-week.

and that is why i says he is one of the worst starting QBs in the league. there are back up QBs that are better than this useless, overpaid, annoying jason candle.

[MASHDEMBOYS]

Jason has played better and needs lots of help

[DMVSkins]

Ha ha ha, this thread deserves a laugh.

Yes, Campbell is improving. How can we tell? Well, lets see, this weekend the Browns scored 37, the Lions scored 38, the Panthers scored 17, the Bills scored 15, the Bucs scored 7, the Chiefs scored 27, the Rams scored 13, and the Raiders scored 20.

How many points did our "improving Campbell" lead us to? 6 (2 field goals) :doh:

And how many chances did Cowboys give Campbell the ball back and go 3 and out? :doh:

And yet, all of the above mentioned teams are supposedly worse than the Redskins. Do all of those teams have better O-lines than us? Why should we always blame it on the oline when it's our quarterback who can't get the ball away quick enough, don't make the right reads, miss wide open receivers, and is sometimes the cause of his own sacks?

I'll say Campbell is improving when i see something like this:

Matthew Stafford

#9 | QB | Lions

26/43, 422 YDS, 5 TD, 2 INT

Oh yeah, that guy is a rookie with no Oline and less talent around him than Campbell :hysterical:

Ouch how can a JC supporter have anything to say after this deathblow

[Passizle]

where is this guy going with this? They threw more TDs than Candle. and but but but but but...they were rookies last yr. LOL i love that.

Where I am going is down your rabbit hole of changing metrics. You said tht JC is with out a doubt, one of the worst QB's in the NFL, then you used last years TD total to prove that and went further to say that TD are the only measure of a qb.

I merely brought up other facts about how JC is middle of the road in almost every statistical category when compared to his peers. In your version you are cherry picking stats to falsley support your argument. Which , by the way, is wrong. You claimed that JC was so bad in the TD category that there were only two guys that threw less TD's. Truth is there are more than that.

Two rookies throwing more TDs in a "NEW SYSTEM" than 4th year veteran jason candle. DO the math buddy.

Whats your point? I can easily argue that, by stating that both rookies were not asked to do much and had great defenses and run games to carry the load. They merely caught a ride...

Now if you do not want to consider TDs.... most important stat for a QB, then there is no need for you to be here chatting football.

And why is that? If QB "A" throws 20 TD's, 2000 yards and 35 INT's in a season, and QB "B" throws 15 TD's, 4000 yards and 5 INT's in a season, would you really consider QB "A" the better QB? Your view is the view of a simpleton and has no real bearing on any intricacies of the game...

i provided those stats because somebody wanted some proof thining i was saying what i was saying without any credibility. then i post it. he realizes the facts but you for some reason is still in your little own world thinking my facts that i provided are made up. LOL

You provided a single stat. Not "stats". Which your "stats" are wrong and have been proved as such. Why still argue?

now i provided those facts because they are concrete. you know, stats you candle homers love to go by. but when it isnt in his favor, you come up with another excuse. like calling me a liar.

Nobody called you a liar. That was your little tantrum response for me calling you a labeler... which you still are doing. I am no JC homer. Just a fan with a different POV. I dont think JC is a terrific QB. I thinkhe is servicable and the bestQB on this team right now. If you bothered to actually read these posts, you would clearly see that.

now i could provide more reasons why he is one of the worst startnig QB in the league but if you have set of eyes, you wouldnt need others to provide reasons.

Please do so. You are so wrong its not even funny. I would love for you to conitue to "prove" hes the worst. Watcing you make an ass of yourself on the live internet is classic.

[SuperBash]

Campbell is a problem but he isn't the biggest problem. He isn't the answer at QB. That should the end of the discussion about him, it's painfully obvious.

[NewCliche21]

Work has been insane. Threads are the same as before.

It is the O-line, JC needs a better system. He is actually becoming a good option etc.

If the D holds every team to 5 or less each game, he might have a winning record in 3 years.

Unfortunately, it looks like you haven't missed a word. :doh:

And no, that's not sarcasm. I've come around since Detroit.

[wdcredskins]

Where I am going is down your rabbit hole of changing metrics. You said tht JC is with out a doubt, one of the worst QB's in the NFL, then you used last years TD total to prove that and went further to say that TD are the only measure of a qb.

I merely brought up other facts about how JC is middle of the road in almost every statistical category when compared to his peers. In your version you are cherry picking stats to falsley support your argument. Which , by the way, is wrong. You claimed that JC was so bad in the TD category that there were only two guys that threw less TD's. Truth is there are more than that.

He obviously didnt read my post because right after i posted his TD numbers last yr, i posted his TD numbers this yr stating that only two starting QBs this yr have less TDs than candle. But , hey , when u dont read, obviously ur going to come off as a clueless one.

so then there is no need to read rest of your post since you have no credibility.

now what part of he was tied for least amount of TDs thrown for starting QBs last yr and only two starting QBs have thrown less than him this yr do you not understand?

[HailGreen28]

Is it just me or has this forum been in a time-loop for over three years on this issue? With about the same relative stats and situations to debate?

[da#1skinsfan]

I have been a Jason supporter for a long time, and in most ways, continue to be.

HOWEVER, something a buddy said to me last night just clicked.

Jason is as consistent as one can be under these horrible conditions, however, "in all these years, you can count how many BIG PLAYS Jason has made on one hand. In fact I dont remember one since that bomb to Moss last year vs New Orleans"

"you know....you know....youre right"

So think about this...how many BIG PLAYS has Jason made? You think about all the opportunities...every time he drops back to pass, every game over the last few years. Whether he rushes for a 40yd TD, completes an 80yd TD pass to Moss, hits Cooley for a 35yd gain and into the red zone when its a tie game with 1 minute left...think about this. How many truly big plays (not just a clutch 3rd down throw but a game defining play) has Jason made?

Hes gotta have 5 or 6 just by chance for playing dozens of games right? Wrong.

That concerns me more than anything and tells me maybe he just isnt the guy we want him to be because he doesnt have that gumption to make the big play.

[Botched]

Is it just me or has this forum been in a time-loop for over three years on this issue? With about the same relative stats and situations to debate?

A few weeks back somebody bumped a Campbell thread from 2007 and all the exact same excuses were being made that are made now. It was the o lines fault, the receivers fault, Gibbs' fault, he needed more time, etc.

Same old story. Campbell is what he is.

[wdcredskins]

I have been a Jason supporter for a long time, and in most ways, continue to be.

HOWEVER, something a buddy said to me last night just clicked.

Jason is as consistent as one can be under these horrible conditions, however, "in all these years, you can count how many BIG PLAYS Jason has made on one hand. In fact I dont remember one since that bomb to Moss last year vs New Orleans"

"you know....you know....youre right"

So think about this...how many BIG PLAYS has Jason made? You think about all the opportunities...every time he drops back to pass, every game over the last few years. Whether he rushes for a 40yd TD, completes an 80yd TD pass to Moss, hits Cooley for a 35yd gain and into the red zone when its a tie game with 1 minute left...think about this. How many truly big plays (not just a clutch 3rd down throw but a game defining play) has Jason made?

Hes gotta have 5 or 6 just by chance for playing dozens of games right? Wrong.

That concerns me more than anything and tells me maybe he just isnt the guy we want him to be because he doesnt have that gumption to make the big play.

right and obviously, he isnt running for his life literally in every play since he has started 50 games or so. he has had plenty of chances to make plays. when interviewed about his big play, long bombs, he literally cited his long bomb to moss last yr against the saints. LOL he has no big plays that he had to resort to lsat yr against the saints. What an embarrassing qb this guy is. anyway, so when he does have protection, he stil cant do anything with it. the difference between good QBs and bad Qbs is that when they get sacked, they get up and when they have protection, they make plays. Candle, whether , good protection or bad cant do anything. useless overpaid QB we are stuck with.

[SonnyJ]

I have been a Jason supporter for a long time, and in most ways, continue to be.

HOWEVER, something a buddy said to me last night just clicked.

Jason is as consistent as one can be under these horrible conditions, however, "in all these years, you can count how many BIG PLAYS Jason has made on one hand. In fact I dont remember one since that bomb to Moss last year vs New Orleans"

"you know....you know....youre right"

So think about this...how many BIG PLAYS has Jason made?

...

Sounds like a VERY short conversation. :laugh:

It's funny. During that very same NO game last season, I was watching it with my brother and he was complaining about Campbell (up until the 4th qtr, Campbell looked like he normally does). Now, I officially became concerned about Campbell when Collins came in and completely transformed the offense. But, I said to my brother, "Just give him time, he's got some skills, he just needs to adjust". He then has that great quarter and I was like "See, he can play!"

But, even with the great games against Dallas and Philly, I was becoming concerned about how the team struggled to score TDs. When they continued struggling to score against the Rams, Browns, and Lions, I got a sinking feeling in my stomach. Along the way, I started noticing how teams were bunching up within 10 yards of the LOS. Then, Pittsburgh came in and just said, screw it, this offense can't do a thing against us. And they were 100% correct.

The Bengal game clinched it for me. I knew there were pass protection issues, but it seemed to me that a well-functioning QB could have dealt with them. But, with that game, when he had ample time to throw and plenty of opportunities, Campbell just had a dreadful game. At that point, I realized that he wasn't just a game manager, but a bad QB. Teams had figured him out, and he couldn't adjust.

It's just sad to hear his defense team (and Campbell himself) go back to that Saints game and hold it up as an example of what he can do (and, let's remember, the Saints were down some 3-4 starting DBs at the point when Campbell started making plays). A few plays a season and a half ago are what they are hanging their hats on. It reminds me of a few years ago when Abe Pollin (RIP) trumped up the 1978 NBA Championship team as the example of the organization's accomplishments. It's just embarrassing to be referencing isolated incidents from a bygone time as proof of capabilities.

[Tyron Biggums]

He looks like he is better then 2007.

I wonder why his game has improved as the Offensive line has. Must be some kinda weird stat that confuses most fans.

[pjfootballer]

I know this. I am attempting some silly debate of WDC's claim that JC is one of the worst QB in the NFL. All he wants to talk about is TD's. There is more to the game than TD's. Just trying to enlighted another darkened soul to the reality that, no matter how cool Madden 2010 is, it ha no bearing on the real game of football.

You know where I stand. JC is "eh" right now. He is neither carrying the team or costing the team games. I think it would be a good idea to lock him up ina short term deal while we groom the next "saviour" and bolster the run game and front lines...

There are no QB's, IMO, that are worth first round money coming out next year. I am even open to grooming Brennan if he can stay healthy and show enough to earn a roster spot. Either way, there is noody out there that is ready to start that will be haed and shoulders above what w have now. Especially with th state of the line.

Actually TD's are kind of the point of the game of football. No matter if it's passing TD's by Jason or running TD's by the team, he leads us to very little of them. In fact, we're one of the worst teams in the league at scoring TD's. Our punter has had to score 2 of them for us this year. I thought the whole object of the game of football is scoring TD's? Jason Campbell is a not leading us to very many, hence the terrible record we have. :evilg:

[redskins55]

Been off the boards for a few days, so this may have been covered.

The last three weeks, Campbell has looked better. He is making reads better. He's working through his progressions quicker. He seems to be finding that second and third option. Guys like Davis, Kelly, and Thomas are getting the ball now.

Obviously, part of it is the line. He has a lack of time so his decision making has to be compressed. But, I also think a lot of it has to do with JC putting in the work and studying the playbook and working with Zorn (who isn't consumed with play calling now)

Thoughts?

It feels really good to see a fan of the Skins give an unbiased assessment of our QB. Alot of people on ES can learn alot from you. He is getting better and is playing better than Sanchez, Cutler and Orton for that fact. I believe in Jason but we have to get better around him and he has to continue improving. Improvement is something that most QBs dont do.. See: Matt Ryan this year! :doh: