Am I the only one who thinks Campbell is getting better?

[Late Night Roach]

Six points for a game doesn't equal getting better IMO, so let's get real here people.

[Passizle]

lets go with stats

since u candle homers love stats.

Tied for fewest TDs thrown for starting QB last yr with 13.

Shaun Hill started 8 games last yr and threw for 13 TD last yr. Thigpen started 11 games last yr and threw for 18 TDs. Not what you call elite QBs. not even considered good QBs.

This yr, only 2 starting QBs have managed to throw less TDs than candle. candle, one of the worst starting QB in the league. Notice i said One of the. not the worst QB. He fits in a group alright. figure it out.

But if you have set of eyes, you dont even need stats to tell how bad this guy is.

Ok. I'll bite. So are TD's only based on the production of the QB? How many TD were called back due to holding or other penalties? Are those the QB fault?

If you ever bothered to step away from your personal vendetta against our QB,you may notice a clear trend that shows and offense production is directly tied to the cohesivness (sp) and talent of the guys in the trenches.

Given that... I'll see your ("lowest TD production" and raise you that our QB is...

18th in passing yards

12th in YPA

13th i passes for 1st downs

6th in 1st down %

18th in passes of 20+

20 in passes of 40+

All this while being sacked 29 times (4th in the NFL) (a little food for though BTW... The 2009 redskins are on pace to set a franchise record for sacks allowed)

And to add to that, JC is 24th in total attempts... that is near dead last for QB that have started all 10 games so far... meaning he does not get the ball all that much and is making every oppurtunity count. You dont get those numbers when you are "one of the worst".

Oh Yeah! And fwiw... there are 12 QB that have less TD's than JC. Not two. So much for your "facts".

[milellie111]

Ok. I'll bite. So are TD's only based on the production of the QB? How many TD were called back due to holding or other penalties? Are those the QB fault?

If you ever bothered to step away from your personal vendetta against our QB,you may notice a clear trend that shows and offense production is directly tied to the cohesivness (sp) and talent of the guys in the trenches.

Given that... I'll see your ("lowest TD production" and raise you that our QB is...

18th in passing yards

12th in YPA

13th i passes for 1st downs

6th in 1st down %

18th in passes of 20+

20 in passes of 40+

All this while being sacked 29 times (4th in the NFL) (a little food for though BTW... The 2009 redskins are on pace to set a franchise record for sacks allowed)

And to add to that, JC is 24th in total attempts... that is near dead last for QB that have started all 10 games so far... meaning he does not get the ball all that much and is making every oppurtunity count. You dont get those numbers when you are "one of the worst".

Oh Yeah! And fwiw... there are 12 QB that have less TD's than JC. Not two. So much for your "facts".

Ha ha ha ha, ok. Dude, seriously. Screw the holding penalties. It's not like they are happening every consecutive play in the red zone. Then again, how many times does Candle lead us to the Red Zone? So what, there is a touchdown called back due to holding penalty, throw another touchdown. Rather, with Campbell, he'll give you one chance at a touchdown all game, and then when it's called back, his supporters want to whine "oh, it's the O-lines fault for the false start or hold". Well, maybe if Candle put us in that position more often, he would still have a chance to throw 3 or 4 more TDs without ANY penalties.

You probably start Candle on your fantasy team every week with false hopes, and lose every game

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

the things in games which happen to campbell happen to every QB in the league: false starts, holding penalties, dropped passes, etc. campbell is so weak that any of these little mistakes get magnified x1000. good QBs just move on from these and make another play. no team is going to play perfect football and if youre relying on perfectly executed football to score 20 points something is seriously wrong.

and nobody in their right mind would start campbell on their fantasy team, unless they enjoy losing. although plenty seem to want him back next year, so maybe they do enjoy losing?

[milellie111]

the things in games which happen to campbell happen to every qb in the league: False starts, holding penalties, dropped passes, etc. Campbell is so weak that any of these little mistakes get magnified x1000. Good qbs just move on from these and make another play. No team is going to play perfect football and if youre relying on perfectly executed football to score 20 points something is seriously wrong.

And nobody in their right mind would start campbell on their fantasy team, unless they enjoy losing. Although plenty seem to want him back next year, so maybe they do enjoy losing?

+1111111

[Passizle]

Ha ha ha ha, ok. Dude, seriously. Screw the holding penalties. It's not like they are happening every consecutive play in the red zone. Then again, how many times does Candle lead us to the Red Zone? So what, there is a touchdown called back due to holding penalty, throw another touchdown. Rather, with Campbell, he'll give you one chance at a touchdown all game, and then when it's called back, his supporters want to whine "oh, it's the O-lines fault for the false start or hold". Well, maybe if Candle put us in that position more often, he would still have a chance to throw 3 or 4 more TDs without ANY penalties.

You probably start Candle on your fantasy team every week with false hopes, and lose every game

Im sorry... was I posting to you directly? Regardless. I am not a blind JC supporter. You dont know me. Dont ASSume.

JC has left plays on the field. He has left points on the field. Where we disagree is that I think JC can succeed and is not a "terrible" QB. He is servicable for now and the near future "if" te FO addresses the REAL problems on this team. WHen you stop playing Madden in your moms basement and do some real research, you might learn a little something about t game of football.

[JoeGibbs3.0]

At this rate he will be good when he is 35. LOL. He is almost 30.

Campbell is the example of people blinded by physical looks . Sort of like that 6 2 guy in a power suit. And you think he is a big shot. When he probaly just bought it from JC penny and intends to return it after a job interview at dennys for assistant manager.

Campbell looks the part. But he is average.

[Passizle]

the things in games which happen to campbell happen to every QB in the league: false starts, holding penalties, dropped passes, etc. campbell is so weak that any of these little mistakes get magnified x1000. good QBs just move on from these and make another play. no team is going to play perfect football and if youre relying on perfectly executed football to score 20 points something is seriously wrong.

and nobody in their right mind would start campbell on their fantasy team, unless they enjoy losing. although plenty seem to want him back next year, so maybe they do enjoy losing?

You know BLC, that sword cuts both ways. Plenty of QB miss open receiver in every game and **** happens to all sorts of QB. Problem with the Skins is that THEY dont comeback. You rely FAR to heavily on the QB in your viewof the game. You expect the QB to be the saviour of the team. The truth is that it takes a team effort. You think Reggie Wayne only make easy catches? You think Saturday on blocks ****ty pass rushers? You think the real Moss just shows up every game?

You put FAR too much credit on the staring QB's of those elite teams, which disrepects the talent on the rest of those teams from the coaching on down. There is ALOT wrong with the Redskins... and if we are going to lose regardless, why not let the experienced guy play until we fix the rest of the team? A new QB will not save our season this year or next.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You know BLC, that sword cuts both ways. Plenty of QB miss open receiver in every game and **** happens to all sorts of QB. Problem with the Skins is that THEY dont comeback. You rely FAR to heavily on the QB in your viewof the game. You expect the QB to be the saviour of the team. The truth is that it takes a team effort. You think Reggie Wayne only make easy catches? You think Saturday on blocks ****ty pass rushers? You think the real Moss just shows up every game?

You put FAR too much credit on the staring QB's of those elite teams, which disrepects the talent on the rest of those teams from the coaching on down. There is ALOT wrong with the Redskins... and if we are going to lose regardless, why not let the experienced guy play until we fix the rest of the team? A new QB will not save our season this year or next.

we just differ in our opinions of what is the most important part of a "team". to me, the QB is the guy in charge. the vikings were very one dimensional until favre showed up. now they sling it all over the place. they have the same receivers who looked like ass with jackson and ferrotte, yet now look like pro bowlers with a QB. explanation? favre showed up. these guys arent "playing harder" or "showing up on gameday", they just got a better general who throws better balls and executes better. end of story.

brady has succeeded with nobodies at WR. mcnabb has as well. so has drew brees. these guys make their receivers better. you think desean jackson would be catching bombs from campbell? not a chance. you think randy moss would be going deep with campbell? not a chance.

its a team game, but the QB changes everything about an offense. it all starts with him and trickles down. there are a few rare instances where the QB is not the focal point of a team, but the vast majority of the time, the QB is the main focus.

[Rodriggo]

He is getting better.

But when you marginally improve from horrendous what are you?

He's been given a great opportunity to make something happen and he just hasn't.

I have nothing against him, want him to succeed but to be honest I believe we would have been better off with Jeff Garcia this year and that's saying something considering he's washed up and nowhere right now.

[wdcredskins]

Did you seriously just pick out ONE STAT (which actually also happens to be a team stat as well) and give that as your proof?

one stat? i thought you homers liked stats? one stat which happens to be the most important. if you dont know, i cant help you. and what i did was compare it with other QBs that are considered low level tier QBs. and with less starts than candle, they threw same aount of TDs or more. i broke it down for you. not just post useless stats and dont break it down.

enjoy it. I mena, the other guy asked me to provide facts and i provide and you still go off in your own world thinking it is somehow invalid or misleading? I really cant help you there buddy.

[wdcredskins]

English 101 usually tells people to capitalize the first letter of someone's last name. Just saying. Also it's experiment, not experiement. And years, not yrs.

I'm not a Jason Campbell supporter, but it amazes me how people here expect him to put up Pro Bowl numbers every game. He's not that great, but it's not like he's the only one on the offensive side who's struggling. If I were starting a football team from any NFL players there are only two people on the offensive side I would want on my team. Samuels and Cooley. Everybody else? No. Is he part of the solution....no. But he's also not the whole problem either.

at least you talking football. good job man.

[wdcredskins]

you sound highly educated

This guy has not talked football with me once yet. Stop replying to my posts if you arent going to chat football. Man, last time i checked, this was redskins forum.

but when you state facts and they have no retort, you tend to get "your spelling, grammar sucks" route. I've come across your kind before.

[Passizle]

we just differ in our opinions of what is the most important part of a "team". to me, the QB is the guy in charge. the vikings were very one dimensional until favre showed up. now they sling it all over the place. they have the same receivers who looked like ass with jackson and ferrotte, yet now look like pro bowlers with a QB. explanation? favre showed up. these guys arent "playing harder" or "showing up on gameday", they just got a better general who throws better balls and executes better. end of story.

brady has succeeded with nobodies at WR. mcnabb has as well. so has drew brees. these guys make their receivers better. you think desean jackson would be catching bombs from campbell? not a chance. you think randy moss would be going deep with campbell? not a chance.

its a team game, but the QB changes everything about an offense. it all starts with him and trickles down. there are a few rare instances where the QB is not the focal point of a team, but the vast majority of the time, the QB is the main focus.

Really? You may want to look that up. The receiving corp changed quite a bit year over year. 2009 WQR starters, Harvin, Rice, Berrian... 2008 WR starters, Berrian, Wade.

I agree the QB has helped make a difference, but he is not the single difference maker. Lets not forget that Minny has the correct formula for building a perrenial winner. Talent in the trenches. They would still have a winning record with a different QB.

[Passizle]

This guy has not talked football with me once yet. Stop replying to my posts if you arent going to chat football. Man, last time i checked, this was redskins forum.

but when you state facts and they have no retort, you tend to get "your spelling, grammar sucks" route. I've come across your kind before.

Your "stat" was BS... and completley wrong BTW. Try again.

PS. You sure seem to like to label people.

[JaimeDeCurry]

Campbell is neither as good as some people on here make him out to be nor as bad as a lot of people on here make him out to be.

He's pretty much a middle of the road quarterback on a subpar team. We saw what he did with a great running game taking some pressure off him, we were 6-2 and aside from red zone troubles, our team was clicking in both the running and passing game.

We've also seen what he's done with a godawful offensive line and a subpar running game. He's not the type of quarterback who will be able to thrive in those situations. Honestly, most quarterbacks wouldn't. He's not a Brady, Manning, or Warner. But he's also not a Quinn, Russell, or Jackson.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Really? You may want to look that up. The receiving corp changed quite a bit year over year. 2009 WQR starters, Harvin, Rice, Berrian... 2008 WR starters, Berrian, Wade.

I agree the QB has helped make a difference, but he is not the single difference maker. Lets not forget that Minny has the correct formula for building a perrenial winner. Talent in the trenches. They would still have a winning record with a different QB.

rice was there last year as well, he was just considered a bust. yet favre shows up, and hes looking like a top 5 WR. coincidence? i think not.

berrian and rice were both there last year, as well as shiancoe. the only real change is harvin, and hes a gimmick slot guy, not a cog in the offense. his impact on special teams is undeniable however.

favre is the reason that team is 9-1. they were an above average team last year with a bad QB. they were the EXACT replica of what the skins would be if jason campbell had a stellar oline, adrian peterson, and a good defense. a 10-6 team, one and done in the playoffs.

and if you think that team would be a SB contender without favre, id be utterly floored. favre has that team looking like a top 3 team, instead of a wild card contender. if campbell was on that team this year, they might go 10-6, and be eliminated in the post season. maybe we differ on this two, but id like us to strive for better. weve had the 10-6 wild card playoff roster.

[wdcredskins]

Your "stat" was BS... and completley wrong BTW. Try again.

PS. You sure seem to like to label people.

he edited by saying i like to label people but he basically called me a liar.

wow, slandering me now huh? and he is so sure that he said "completley" Its shcoknig isnt it? you cant believe he is that bad huh?

Unreal. It's like Im in a movie. I state facts like he wanted and now, im labeled a liar. LOL THis guy pazzizle is a good example of a delusional candle homer.

[prufRock]

I think he showed some improvement in the Dallas game, but it's probably too little too late. Campbell is past the point where flashing potential and making a few good plays are enough. He's got to finish drives and get the team into the end zone.

And the idea of surrounding him with talent to produce a Gibbs-era, Mark Rypien like performance are a little unrealistic. Your quarterback has to be difference-maker, not just a guy who can be productive and play a role in a dominating team victory. He's got to lift the team.

[Passizle]

rice was there last year as well, he was just considered a bust. yet favre shows up, and hes looking like a top 5 WR. coincidence? i think not.

berrian and rice were both there last year, as well as shiancoe. the only real change is harvin, and hes a gimmick slot guy, not a cog in the offense. his impact on special teams is undeniable however.

favre is the reason that team is 9-1. they were an above average team last year with a bad QB. they were the EXACT replica of what the skins would be if jason campbell had a stellar oline, adrian peterson, and a good defense. a 10-6 team, one and done in the playoffs.

and if you think that team would be a SB contender without favre, id be utterly floored. favre has that team looking like a top 3 team, instead of a wild card contender. if campbell was on that team this year, they might go 10-6, and be eliminated in the post season. maybe we differ on this two, but id like us to strive for better. weve had the 10-6 wild card playoff roster.

Well there you have it. You said it yourself. They were already a good team... therefore Favre is a small part of their success. Trust me, if Favre had Kelly, Moss, Cooley and Portis to throw to with our front five... well, hewould have more interceptins thanTD's and Cooley would go to the probowl again. Its not all about the QB. Its about the team...

[Passizle]

he edited by saying i like to label people but he basically called me a liar.

wow, slandering me now huh? and he is so sure that he said "completley" Its shcoknig isnt it? you cant believe he is that bad huh?

Unreal. It's like Im in a movie. I state facts like he wanted and now, im labeled a liar. LOL THis guy pazzizle is a good example of a delusional candle homer.

More labels? You live in a small world... dont you? First. I am "Passizle" please dont type to me in the third person... next, I adressed your "facts" and debunked them. JC is not "one of the worst" QB in the NFL.

By your backwards logic, I could easiliy make the same argument about any QB and call it "fact". But that would not be true now would it? Just because you says its so... does not mean it is.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Well there you have it. You said it yourself. They were already a good team... therefore Favre is a small part of their success. Trust me, if Favre had Kelly, Moss, Cooley and Portis to throw to with our front five... well, hewould have more interceptins thanTD's and Cooley would go to the probowl again. Its not all about the QB. Its about the team...

the vikings were a good team with pretty poor quarterbacking, but they were able to mask it a lot of the time.

brad childress decided he was sick of masking crappy QB play, so they brought in a great one.

now they are superbowl contenders.

favre is a massive part of their success. a 10-6 team is a lot different than a 14-2 team (which is where theyre headed).

and youre wrong on your assessment, again belittling our players because campbell sucks and makes them look crappier than they are. favre would do great with our group of skill guys. hell he did fine with the jets group last year until he got injured. he made chansi stuckey look like a beast.

now, could favre be a beast with our oline? no. but he'd do much better because hes also brett friggin favre and is one fo the best QBs of all time whereas campbell will be a career backup after january 3rd.

[morpheusmeyers]

TJack and Gus were holding the Vikings back. Now they've got Favre, and an otherwise good team has become a great one. Favre has absolutely been a difference maker on that team.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

TJack and Gus were holding the Vikings back. Now they've got Favre, and an otherwise good team has become a great one. Favre has absolutely been a difference maker on that team.

thats my point.

if you stuck campbell on the vikings, theyd be 9-7, 10-6. you think that throw to greg lewis at the end of the 9ers game happens with campbell? lol. you think campbell is tossing multiple 4 TD games? think again.

theyd be a grinding hardnose football team, campbell would put up 15 TDs and minimal yards, while AP would kill himself each week, and the games would be all close scoring affairs. theyd be an above average team, just like they were last year.

[Passizle]

the vikings were a good team with pretty poor quarterbacking, but they were able to mask it a lot of the time.

brad childress decided he was sick of masking crappy QB play, so they brought in a great one.

now they are superbowl contenders.

favre is a massive part of their success. a 10-6 team is a lot different than a 14-2 team (which is where theyre headed).

and youre wrong on your assessment, again belittling our players because campbell sucks and makes them look crappier than they are. favre would do great with our group of skill guys. hell he did fine with the jets group last year until he got injured. he made chansi stuckey look like a beast.

now, could favre be a beast with our oline? no. but he'd do much better because hes also brett friggin favre and is one fo the best QBs of all time whereas campbell will be a career backup after january 3rd.

Yeah... Stuckey was such a beast that he plays with the Browns now. Weak argument IMO. Favre also led that 8-3 right into the toilet. Yo forget the latter half of the season? If he is so AWEOME and complete game changer, then his bad years would have neer happened. He would be more like Brady who created stars... and not works with them.

Also, let not forget that 9 of Favres TD have come in the last two games. Not to take that away, but ntil recently, the pass game was not spectacular as is stands now. Still. The Vikes were aleady good. Using that as your example of how a QB changes a team is pretty thin... fwiw, the QB pay last year was not all that bad, as I recall, you and a few other posters were touting Ferotte as a "good" QB.