ESPN Documentary on the Wayne Gretzky trade

[SkinsHokieFan]

Has anyone watched this? This is some great stuff. Interviews with all the key players, including some real detailed and forthcoming details from Gretzky himself.

I couldn't imagine how angry those Canadians must have been that day. The guy was a national hero, it really seemed like someone with the stature of George Washington was traded that day.

Its also interesting to see how much he changed hockey in the southwestern US, and Cali in particular

A very well done documentary. Fascinating details

[chipwhich]

I watched it and agree with all of your points.

It would have been like Chicago trading Jordan too Toronto for cash.

Amazing story.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I watched it and agree with all of your points.

It would have been like Chicago trading Jordan too Toronto for cash.

Amazing story.

Agree. When it comes down to it, it was basically a cash trade. If the Bulls traded Jordan when he was 27, in the prime of his career to Toronto for 20 million dollars. Wow

3 first round picks, 15 million and some throw in players for Wayne freakin Gretzky?

I don't think any team was worth what Wayne Gretzky was worth in 1988. You are talking about Wilt, Russel and Jordan combined, and the economic impact he had on the LA Kings and hockey in general

It must have just been a stunner for NHL fans in the 80s

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Gretzky seems like a douche to me.

GREAT documentary though. It had me transfixed and I don't even like hockey.

[chipwhich]

Gretzky seems like a douche to me.

GREAT documentary though. It had me transfixed and I don't even like hockey.

A douche? No more than Jordan.

Gretzky set records in hockey that exceeded all other players in that sport by such a margin that there is no comparable in any other sport.

Since Americans don't understand hockey it's overlooked. In my book he is the best athlete in any sport ever. Jordans records against his counterparts pale in comparison to what Gretzky did to his.

[DCSaints_fan]

Interestingly enough, the Edmonton Oilers were able to win another cup two years after the trade, while the LA Kings only got tot he Cup finals once where they were defeated.

[chipwhich]

Interestingly enough, the Edmonton Oilers were able to win another cup two years after the trade, while the LA Kings only got tot he Cup finals once where they were defeated.

The real question is what would the kings have done without Gretzky and what would Edmonton have done with him.

It's a stupid argument. If you knew hockey you could answer the above intelligently.

[ixcuincle]

Didn't get a chance to see it, but ESPN has done a good job dispatching 30 filmmakers to create 30 documentaries about different topics. All of them seem pretty interesting. The next one is about the USFL

[Mickalino]

I couldn't imagine how angry those Canadians must have been that day. The guy was a national hero, it really seemed like someone with the stature of George Washington was traded that day.

I didn't know George Washington played hockey.

And definitely would have never guessed he was as good as Gretzky

[Sticksboi05]

A douche? No more than Jordan.

Gretzky set records in hockey that exceeded all other players in that sport by such a margin that there is no comparable in any other sport.

Since Americans don't understand hockey it's overlooked. In my book he is the best athlete in any sport ever. Jordans records against his counterparts pale in comparison to what Gretzky did to his.

Yeah because hockey has changed alot over the eras. More than basketball has. You cannot score like that in today's NHL, better defense, actual goalies etc. I still have Jordan the best ever because Wayne was a one dimensional force. Jordan absolutely dominated offensively and defensively. Two way force and his career average with the Bulls was 31.4 PPG, a full PPG over Wilt who had so many advantages back in his day in a much less competitive league. But it's a matter of opinion. Some people take Super Mario over The Great One.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

A douche? No more than Jordan.

Gretzky set records in hockey that exceeded all other players in that sport by such a margin that there is no comparable in any other sport.

Since Americans don't understand hockey it's overlooked. In my book he is the best athlete in any sport ever. Jordans records against his counterparts pale in comparison to what Gretzky did to his.

Jordan is a douche too.

I don't know though. Maybe it was just the whole interview on a Southern California golf course thing that rubbed me wrong.

BTW, Pele is the GOAT.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I hate hockey and I watched it and thought it was really good. The old footage is still cool, I love seeing old classic, grainy footage no matter the sport. This is when ESPN is at their best, stuff like this.

I'd bring up Willie Mays, Ruth or whatever since I can see where this debate is headed but it'll be of no use.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Gretzky set records in hockey that exceeded all other players in that sport by such a margin that there is no comparable in any other sport.

That's not even close, Babe Ruth outhomered entire teams.

Even after the steroid era, he still holds the record for slugging percentage and on base plus slugging percentage. He lead the league for those categories for 13 years in a row.

At the time of his retirement in 1935, Babe Ruth had 714 homers. Lou Gehrig was second with 378. He is still 2nd in RBI with 2217...when Ruth retired, second place on the RBI list was Ty Cobb, with 1937. That's not a whopping difference but you need to take into consideration that Cobb had about 2400 more plate appearances than Ruth for his career. Hank Aaron finally passed Ruth in career RBI with 2297 but needed 3,324 more plate appearances to do it.

He set the single season record for homers with 29, then the next year hit 54. He then doubled up on his original record +1 and hit 59. Gretzky never doubled up on any single season record like that, never outscored a team or out assisted a team by himself.

[DCSaints_fan]

The real question is what would the kings have done without Gretzky and what would Edmonton have done with him.

It's a stupid argument. If you knew hockey you could answer the above intelligently.

Gretzky didn't win a Cup in Edmonton until Messier showed up. After they both left Edmonton, Messier went on to bring the Cup to the Rangers while Gretzky wasn't able to accomplish the same with the Kings or the Rangers. Messier also got the Canucks to the finals. Messier's teams tended to accomplish more in the playoffs than Gretzky's.

Jagr also put up great numbers in the late 90s/early 00s but the Penguins always flopped in the playoffs. Not that Gretzky was a lazy bum like Jagr, but I think that Messier's leadership qualities were more valuable to his teams than Gretzky's skill was to his teams. Playoff series are tough. its not like the regular season.

[HEavyJumbo85]

Gretzky didn't win a Cup in Edmonton until Messier showed up. After they both left Edmonton, Messier went on to bring the Cup to the Rangers while Gretzky wasn't able to accomplish the same with the Kings or the Rangers. Messier also got the Canucks to the finals. Messier's teams tended to accomplish more in the playoffs than Gretzky's.

Jagr also put up great numbers in the late 90s/early 00s but the Penguins always flopped in the playoffs. Not that Gretzky was a lazy bum like Jagr, but I think that Messier's leadership qualities were more valuable to his teams than Gretzky's skill was to his teams. Playoff series are tough. its not like the regular season.

Wow, epic fail. Your Messier facts are extremely wrong. Yeah it would've been really hard for Gretzky to win the Cup in Edmonton without Messier seeing as Edmonton wasn't in the NHL until '79 and that's when, yep you guessed it, Messier entered the league. Also Messier never even led the Canucks to the playoffs, I don't know how he could've led them to the finals. It seems like you have to do one before the other, oh well.

Also, can you tell me again who Gretzky was playing with on the Kings? Bernie Nicholls? He was a 70 goal man after all, too bad before Gretzky the guy never scored 50, and after Gretzky he never scored more than 27. Those L.A. Kings teams really had nothing, at least not compared to the Oilers or the Rangers during the same time period. In 93 Gretzky led a Kings team that had no business being in the finals, to the Stanley Cup finals. I mean Luc Robataille was a great player, but outside of Lucky, Blake, and Sandstrom, that team didnt' really have the star power. Maybe the Rockstar power with Melrose behind the bench and bandana wielding Kelly Hrudey in net, but Melrose wasn't even a good coach and Hrudey was an average goalie.

When Messier joined the Rangers they were already a pretty darn good team. They were good enough to win the Presidents trophy his first year there, Messier sure as hell didn't do that by himself.

If we're talking numbers, Gretzky's are just silly. He's the only NHL player to EVER record 200 points and he did this 4 out of 5 seasons at one point, the other season he had 196 points btw. He won the league MVP as a rookie, and then he won it for the next 7 years in a row. In total he won 9 MVPs, 8 in a row, and 9 out of 10 years. He won 10 scoring titles, 7 in a row with Edmonton and then 3 with L.A. Gretzky scored 212 points in 81-82, it was the year that Edmonton set an NHL record for most goals in a season with 417. I'm not a math major, but it seems that Gretzky had a hand in more than half of his teams goals, that's ridiculous. 50 goals in 50 games is a big milestone, Gretzky scored 50 in 39 games that year, no one else has come close with the exception of Gretzky again when he did 50 in 42 games. He broke Gordie Howe's all time scoring record when he was just 28 years old in his 11th NHL season, Gordie Howe (aka Mr. Hockey) took 24 seasons to set that record and didn't retire until he was 52 years old.

He's the most dominant player in any sport ever, not close. Some hockey fans will argue Bobby Orr, and maybe they have an argument when it comes to ability, but there is no one in any sport ever that has or ever will equal the dominance of Gretzky, it's just not possible.

[Spaceman Spiff]

He's the most dominant player in any sport ever, not close. Some hockey fans will argue Bobby Orr, and maybe they have an argument when it comes to ability, but there is no one in any sport ever that has or ever will equal the dominance of Gretzky, it's just not possible.

Not true. Sorry, but its just not.

[Sticksboi05]

Wow, epic fail. Your Messier facts are extremely wrong. Yeah it would've been really hard for Gretzky to win the Cup in Edmonton without Messier seeing as Edmonton wasn't in the NHL until '79 and that's when, yep you guessed it, Messier entered the league. Also Messier never even led the Canucks to the playoffs, I don't know how he could've led them to the finals. It seems like you have to do one before the other, oh well.

Also, can you tell me again who Gretzky was playing with on the Kings? Bernie Nicholls? He was a 70 goal man after all, too bad before Gretzky the guy never scored 50, and after Gretzky he never scored more than 27. Those L.A. Kings teams really had nothing, at least not compared to the Oilers or the Rangers during the same time period. In 93 Gretzky led a Kings team that had no business being in the finals, to the Stanley Cup finals. I mean Luc Robataille was a great player, but outside of Lucky, Blake, and Sandstrom, that team didnt' really have the star power. Maybe the Rockstar power with Melrose behind the bench and bandana wielding Kelly Hrudey in net, but Melrose wasn't even a good coach and Hrudey was an average goalie.

When Messier joined the Rangers they were already a pretty darn good team. They were good enough to win the Presidents trophy his first year there, Messier sure as hell didn't do that by himself.

If we're talking numbers, Gretzky's are just silly. He's the only NHL player to EVER record 200 points and he did this 4 out of 5 seasons at one point, the other season he had 196 points btw. He won the league MVP as a rookie, and then he won it for the next 7 years in a row. In total he won 9 MVPs, 8 in a row, and 9 out of 10 years. He won 10 scoring titles, 7 in a row with Edmonton and then 3 with L.A. Gretzky scored 212 points in 81-82, it was the year that Edmonton set an NHL record for most goals in a season with 417. I'm not a math major, but it seems that Gretzky had a hand in more than half of his teams goals, that's ridiculous. 50 goals in 50 games is a big milestone, Gretzky scored 50 in 39 games that year, no one else has come close with the exception of Gretzky again when he did 50 in 42 games. He broke Gordie Howe's all time scoring record when he was just 28 years old in his 11th NHL season, Gordie Howe (aka Mr. Hockey) took 24 seasons to set that record and didn't retire until he was 52 years old.

He's the most dominant player in any sport ever, not close. Some hockey fans will argue Bobby Orr, and maybe they have an argument when it comes to ability, but there is no one in any sport ever that has or ever will equal the dominance of Gretzky, it's just not possible.

Debatable. One wonders if Lemieux hadn't missed like half the games in his career. He would've had a 200 point season but he missed 6 games that year and hit 199. Also, like I said, Wayne was one dimensional in his sport. Which is why I will always put MJ over him, period. But he was one of the best athletes ever, no question. It's just hard comparing stats between sports. I mean look how much hockey has changed.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Debatable. One wonders if Lemieux hadn't missed like half the games in his career. Also, like I said, Wayne was one dimensional in his sport. Which is why I will always put MJ over him, period.

Good point, Gretzky didn't do it on both ends of the ice. Though I'm not sure if a center in hockey is really responsible for defense like that.

His defenders will say that his offense was so good that it didn't matter.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Here is what I do know

Gretzky has more assists then any other player has POINTS

He broke the all time point record, of Gordie Howe's in 1989 (exactly 20 years ago yesterday), after a mere 9 years in the NHL.

The impact his trade had, on both Edmonton, Canada in general, and the NHL in California is ridiculous. You can't measure it.

And from the interviews of Gretzky on the driving range, its obvious he feels he made the right decision to get out of Edmonton. I think he did also

[zoony]

I read a great biography on Babe Ruth, and I came away just in awe of the man.

He truly was the greatest athlete in his sport, ever. I think someone like that comes along once every couple hundred years, if ever.

....

[Sticksboi05]

Good point, Gretzky didn't do it on both ends of the ice. Though I'm not sure if a center in hockey is really responsible for defense like that.

His defenders will say that his offense was so good that it didn't matter.

Of the three forwards, RW, LW and C, Center has the most defensive responsibilities.

[ACW]

Let me say this about Wayne:

-He's the all-time leaders in goals.

-Even if you eliminate those, he still has more ASSISTS than anyone has POINTS

Wilt and Jordan both averaged 30.1

Wilt allso averaged 23 boards.

Oscar had his triple-double season.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Of the three forwards, RW, LW and C, Center has the most defensive responsibilities.

Gretzky also played in the pre "left wing lock/neutral zone trap" era.

The game has changed quite a bit since Gretzky's prime in the 1980s

When NJ came out with the nuetral zone trap in 1993-1994-1995, people were shocked and disgusted at the boring hockey they now had to watch. It was truly awful, but NJ won and won big and it spread from there

[Sticksboi05]

Let me say this about Wayne:

-He's the all-time leaders in goals.

-Even if you eliminate those, he still has more ASSISTS than anyone has POINTS

Wilt and Jordan both averaged 30.1

Wilt allso averaged 23 boards.

Oscar had his triple-double season.

Yeah well MJ had 10 consecutive scoring titles, 31.4 PPG with the Bulls, 33.4 playoff PPG, which is what matters, F the Wizards years. Also, 1987 DPOTY and the first to get 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season, 9 time all nba defensive 1st team. Two way domination beats one way no matter what the stats are. Wilt had so many advantages in his early playing days. Other than Russell who could even really play him? Jordan is the greatest offensive force ever, period, because unlike Wilt, his game was not limited to the interior, and then you add that he's one of the best defenders ever, especially on the perimeter, he and Pippen massacred teams = MJ > Wayne.

And MJ won 5 MVP's, should've been 8 at least.

[Sticksboi05]

Gretzky also played in the pre "left wing lock/neutral zone trap" era.

The game has changed quite a bit since Gretzky's prime in the 1980s

When NJ came out with the nuetral zone trap in 1993-1994-1995, people were shocked and disgusted at the boring hockey they now had to watch. It was truly awful, but NJ won and won big and it spread from there

Yeah, it's become a hell of a lot harder to score. Today we have actual goalies, bigger pads, much much improved defensive systems, butterfly etc etc. Hence why it's not an 8 goals per game affair anymore. Hockey has changed stat wise alot more than basketball.