WP: Wise - Zorn's Trickery Proved Rather Revealing

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I don't if it's the playcalling or the execution' date=' but here is one my big issues from yesterday.

If it is 3rd and 6, we are going to throw the ball 7 yards. If it is 3rd and 4, we are going to throw the ball 5 yards.

This actually worked a little bit yesterday, but it makes scoring an absolute chorse, because it requires constant 10 or 11 play drives. And eventually, you are going to take a sack or get a holding call or something.

There is no "attack" in our offense unless we announce it from the loudspeakers (trying to throw a 60 yard bomb, trying a reverse pass, etc).

[b']Where is the 18 yard in route? Where are the plays that eat up 15 or 20 yards?[/b] The only time we got plays like that were on broke plays or on the last drive.

id bet any amount of money our guys are running these and campbell just cant hit them. i did see one play where i think moss ran a banana route to the outside right, and he had a step and campbell didnt even throw to him.

if anyone watched the bears game last night, cutler was dreadful, but he made some really nice touch throws that campbell just cant make. one of them was the banana route which im sure we run all the time, jc just cant hit it.

[Wyvern]

I'm not sold on this WP article. A little trickery on the first game of the season is not desperation. Zorn's calls showed a willingness to gamble, but also tempered by the level of his team's execution.

1. The fake field goal only had to net a first down, we wound up with a TD. The 'trick-play' had some basis in game-film, and certainly kept the Skins in the game after the miserable first half.

2. The reverse and passing 'attempt' by ARE was a surprise call, but isn't that the idea? The fact that Moss couldn't get open, and ARE reverted to 'punt-return' mentality is not Zorn's fault. If that had been an incomplete -- the yardage for the first down would still have been manageable. So why not try to see if they could fool the Giants on the 2nd play of the 2009 NFL season

3. Calling run plays when backed up in your endzone -- is not desperation, it's acknowledging that your QB/O-line/Receivers have not gelled well enough risk it. You've got a great punter and a decent defense -- why not rely on them?

4. Redzone calls -- there were some calls for passes, and some calls for runs. The team didn't execute them well. I haven't seen that classic touch-pass 'jump-ball' in the corner of the endzone yet. (Maybe that's a hard pass for Campbell to execute?) Here again, the right side of the O-line didn't help.

5. I know the coach takes the blame for his players -- but WP piling on after week one is a little foolish. There are several key offensive players who are failing to execute: Campbell, Moss, Heyer, Thomas(s), That in turn dictates what kinds of play Zorn can rationally call. If you can't block to the right, is it fairto blame the coach for always running to the left. These same type of issues also plague the passing game.

Final Comment: Let's get out of the HC-on a Hot Seat "Media-Drama" and continue pursuing team development on a consistent basis. Snyder needs to publically step up and endorse Zorn for 2 more years. Also, Snyder needs to support his HC versus ANY Skins player, and re-establish the correct order on the team. If players openly rebel -- they're benched this year, and gone the next. Get some discipline back; a lot of this nonsense is fallout from letting last year's antics of Portis and Moss remain unchallenged. This 'me-first' attitude starting to spread to others, and Zorn has to be able to go after offenders, whoever they are.

[lefty420]

i still think 7 wins, something will bump our way in one of these games. remember, were incapable of just beating a team straight up.

Lol. Really? 7 wins?

You have high hopes for Run left, Run left, Pass.

I am reverting to my 2008 prediction. 5-11 and it could be much worse imho. Zorn has shown me he is not a nfl caliber coach or coordinator. :doh:

[lefty420]

Final Comment: Let's get out of the HC-on a Hot Seat "Media-Drama" and continue pursuing team development on a consistent basis. Snyder needs to publically step up and endorse Zorn for 2 more years. Also, Snyder needs to support his HC versus ANY Skins player, and re-establish the correct order on the team. If players openly rebel -- they're benched this year, and gone the next. Get some discipline back; a lot of this nonsense is fallout from letting last year's antics of Portis and Moss remain unchallenged. This 'me-first' attitude starting to spread to others, and Zorn has to be able to go after the lead offenders.

Are you kidding me?

3rd qtr down by 7. Notice anything?

1st and 10 at WAS 20 (7:27) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 21 for 1 yard (O.Umenyiora, A.Pierce).

2nd and 9 at WAS 21 (6:50) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 25 for 4 yards (J.Tuck, D.Clark). NYG-M.Johnson was injured during the play.

NYG-J.Tuck was injured during the play.

3rd and 5 at WAS 25 (6:13) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass short left to C.Cooley to WAS 31 for 6 yards (C.Blackburn, C.Webster). FUMBLES

(C.Blackburn), RECOVERED by NYG-C.Brown at WAS 20.

1st and 10 at WAS 31 (5:50) C.Portis left end to WAS 34 for 3 yards (K.Phillips).

2nd and 7 at WAS 34 (5:10) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 33 for -1 yards (C.Canty, C.Blackburn).

Timeout #1 by WAS at 04:22.

3rd and 8 at WAS 33 (4:22) L.Betts right guard to WAS 31 for -2 yards (M.Johnson).

Our team looks undisciplined, uncoached and pathetic. What has Zorn done to show you he can make it as a HC. Where does run left, run left pass on 3rd and long rank in the all time best offensive schemes ever?

You run to the right to keep the defense honest. You throw on first down to keep the defense honest. None of that happened. Zorn understand none of this.

He is the first that needs to go. Give him 2 more years? Your crazy.

[Zguy28]

Ok, Zorn didn't blow that pass reverse play, ARE did...blame him for it. Don't diss Zorn's trickery just yet, it did allow us to fake a FG for a TD.

Exactly. Jeff Fisher called a fake punt/run for a TD in the Hall of Fame game.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Lol. Really? 7 wins?

You have high hopes for Run left, Run left, Pass.

I am reverting to my 2008 prediction. 5-11 and it could be much worse imho. Zorn has shown me he is not a nfl caliber coach or coordinator. :doh:

yeah, we'll win against the bottom of the barrel teams, and maybe eek out one win against a good team and lose to the raiders or something like that. 7 wins is about right for this team.

we still cant score more than 10 points on offense. our offense is a complete joke.

[lefty420]

Exactly. Jeff Fisher called a fake punt/run for a TD in the Hall of Fame game.

:doh:

So now meaningless preseason games equate to regular season divisional road games?

Still Zorns Run Left, Run left Pass is unstoppable. lol

[HailToTheRedskins14]

I'm tired of hearing "Our WR's aren't getting open."

Steve Smith wasn't open when Eli threaded it to him on 3rd and long. Fitzgerald isn't always "open" by our standards. JC wants his WR's to be open by like 3-5 yards before he'll throw it, and even then he throws it behind them and rarely catches them in stride.

Just throw the freaking ball and let your WR's make a play.

[Skinsinparadise]

Bubba' date=' that play was awful. 95 percent of the QBs feel that movement to their blind side and step up. The other 5 percent end up playing in Detroit.[/quote']

What's Eli's defense for the ball getting knocked out of his hands? I agree on that one JC held on to the ball too long but heck imagine if at work people judging you on a bad moment over and over again as opposed to your full body of work? Eli had bad moments, too.

He was 19 for 26, 14 for 20 before the last drive, 93.6 QB rating. Could he have played better, yeah -- but I don't see how this game is just some summary about how this team is incredible and is being foiled by Campbell.

Keep in mind Campbell pulled those stats against the best D line in all of football with pretty much zip of a running game to back him up. Not that I put this on Portis and the O line but it seems to be much easier to say Portis for the most part is OWNED by the Giants D. Where was he yesterday or for the most part every time they play the Giants? They pretty much shut him down every time they play us.

I don't mean this is a slam on Portis, he plays hard I like him, but to bring it all on Campbell seems silly IMO.

[lefty420]

yeah, we'll win against the bottom of the barrel teams, and maybe eek out one win against a good team and lose to the raiders or something like that. 7 wins is about right for this team.

we still cant score more than 10 points on offense. our offense is a complete joke.

The Lions went 0-16 last year and scored more points did we did.

Nothing is guaranteed. We could go 0-16. Zorn will lose this team if he has not already.

We finished 2-6 last year. That would have been 4-12 had we not had a strong first 8 games.

Those are facts. Bottom of barrel teams? We are one of them lol

[Wyvern]

Left420 ---Your first example (run, run, short pass to Cooley) -- was actually a first down. Fumbles happen, and that one was close.

Portis off the left side is the Redskins biggest threat. (Somewhere I recall some adages about 'establishing the run') Betts results going right, kind of make my point.

I'll grant you I do like Zorn as an HC. (Didn't think I would, at first.) Zorn's approach to the game is sound, he understands what is needed to be done, and he's managed well under considerable constraints placed on him by the FO.

However, Zorn hasn't been allowed to make this 'his' team yet. And Snyder is making a mistake in not reinforcing the stature of whomever he hired as HC. Get the media off of the HC's back, make the players accountable to the HC and their position coaches. And don't over-react to a loss in the first week. Those were my points.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

crazy stat from yesterday. we ran 19 running plays (not including the hunter run or a campbell scramble). we ran 3 of them to the right. on those plays we "gained" (lol) the following yards:

1 yard

-2 yards

-6 yards

ouch!

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

What's Eli's defense for the ball getting knocked out of his hands? I agree on that one JC held on to the ball too long but heck imagine if at work people judging you on a bad moment over and over again as opposed to your full body of work? Eli had bad moments, too.

He was 19 for 26, 14 for 20 before the last drive, 93.6 QB rating. Could he have played better, yeah -- but I don't see how this game is just some summary about how this team is incredible and is being foiled by Campbell.

Keep in mind Campbell pulled those stats against the best D line in all of football with pretty much zip of a running game to back him up. Not that I put this on Portis and the O line but it seems to be much easier to say Portis for the most part is OWNED by the Giants D. Where was he yesterday or for the most part every time they play the Giants? They pretty much shut him down every time they play us.

I don't mean this is a slam on Portis, he plays hard I like him, but to bring it all on Campbell seems silly IMO.

Eli's fumble was because he got sandwiched by two defenders, one of whom was pulling him down by the face mask.

QBs are going to fumble on sacks. If Cambpell got drilled by an unblocked Usi or Tuck and lost the ball, I'd say "God bless you, sir!"

He fumbled because he held the ball a foot from his body and Usi hit it with his pinkie.

It was a great play by Usi, but he NEVER should have had the opportunity to make it. Jason had awful fundamentals on that play.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

crazy stat from yesterday. we ran 19 running plays (not including the hunter run or a campbell scramble). we ran 3 of them to the right. on those plays we "gained" (lol) the following yards:

1 yard

-2 yards

-6 yards

ouch!

I didn't pay a ton of attention to him, but there were three or four plays where I thought "Heyer is just awful."

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The Lions went 0-16 last year and scored more points did we did.

Nothing is guaranteed. We could go 0-16. Zorn will lose this team if he has not already.

We finished 2-6 last year. That would have been 4-12 had we not had a strong first 8 games.

Those are facts. Bottom of barrel teams? We are one of them lol

were at the top of the bottom of the barrel teams, we have too much talent on defense to fail that hard. again, i predicted 7-9, but this season reeks of 2004. all D and no O. cant score on fake FGs every week.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

were at the top of the bottom of the barrel teams, we have too much talent on defense to fail that hard. again, i predicted 7-9, but this season reeks of 2004. all D and no O. cant score on fake FGs every week.

We kinda have to go 3-0 these next three weeks, don't we?

[Skinsinparadise]

Eli's fumble was because he got sandwiched by two defenders' date=' one of whom was pulling him down by the face mask. QBs are going to fumble on sacks. If Cambpell got drilled by an unblocked Usi or Tuck and lost the ball, I'd say "God bless you, sir!"

He fumbled because he held the ball a foot from his body and Usi hit it with his pinkie. It was a great play by Usi, but he NEVER should have had the opportunity to make it. Jason had awful fundamentals on that play.[/quote']

I have watched the Giants a lot, and have seen the ball get knocked out of Eli's hands a bunch of times, I guess he was fundamentally sound on all of those plays? Didn't seem like it. I have yet to see a QB who DOESN'T make some head scratching plays. Cutler who is supposed to be a stud looked IMO idiotic at times last night, IMO it just happens on a play or two with just about any athlete.

If you or whomever want to go after Campbell, cool enough, but for me I am not going to kill anybody for a couple of plays. They seemed to be moving the ball in the air not the ground. To my eyes they shut down Clinton last night not Jason.

[MattFancy]

Yes and no.

Yes we need some one calling the plays. No I do not think Zorn's schemes will work. He has no schemes. He is lost, confused and just out of his league.

We are down 7 in the 3rd and we go run left, run left, and pass. We end up punting.

We should have come out and attacked their middle. Slants, crosses. Set up the big play. Nothing we do seems to be setting anything up. Our offense looks lost from one play to the next.

We look like a HS team on offense.

I dunno, in those 8 games at the beginning last year it looked like his schemes worked,

But yes, we need to do something other than our predictable run, run, pass, punt. We need to mix it up and throw on running downs and run on passing downs. Our offense just seems very bland right now. Maybe Sherman Smith should call the plays?

[lefty420]

Your first example (run, run, short pass to Cooley) -- was actually a first down. Fumbles happen, and that one was close.

Portis off the left side is the Redskins biggest threat. (Somewhere I recall some adages about 'establishing the run') Betts results going right, kind of make my point.

I'll grant you I like Zorn as an HC, didn't think I would at first. But his approach to the game is sound, he understands what is needed to be done, and he's managed well under considerable constraints placed on him by the FO.

However, Zorn hasn't been allowed to make this 'his' team yet. And Snyder is making a mistake in not reinforcing the stature of whomever he hired as HC. Get the media off of the HC's back, make the players accountable to the HC and their position coaches. And don't over-react to a loss in the first week. Those were my points.

I aint talking bout the fumble or the fact it was a first down. Just that we go run run pass. How hard is it to defend lol

Zorn is in his second year? How is this not his team?

You must really love Zorn lol. He is not a nfl caliber coach. What has he done or shown any of us that says he has any grip on how to get a team ready and scheme fore them to win?

[Wyvern]

Eli's fumble was because he got sandwiched by two defenders' date=' one of whom was pulling him down by the face mask.

QBs are going to fumble on sacks. If Cambpell got drilled by an unblocked Usi or Tuck and lost the ball, I'd say "God bless you, sir!"

He fumbled because he held the ball a foot from his body and Usi hit it with his pinkie.

It was a great play by Usi, but he NEVER should have had the opportunity to make it. Jason had awful fundamentals on that play.

That's exactly what I saw. Instead of stepping up into the pocket, Jason planted and his wind-up was almost wheel-house in style. Samuels did his job fairly well, IMO -- this one was on Campbell. (Okay, maybe a little on his receivers for not getting open more quickly?)

[Dat Moss]

We flat out sucked in every Facet, however im not that upset. We could go into North Jersey on fire and still lose, its just a tough place to play (especially to open). i think the play calling HAS to get BETTER.......... Reallly Really wishing it does (on both sides)

[lefty420]

I dunno, in those 8 games at the beginning last year it looked like his schemes worked,

But yes, we need to do something other than our predictable run, run, pass, punt. We need to mix it up and throw on running downs and run on passing downs. Our offense just seems very bland right now. Maybe Sherman Smith should call the plays?

That should worry the hell out of any of us. No one knew him or his schemes. After 8 games they all had film. Since than it has been down hill. We are 2 and 7 the last 9 games. And of all his wins are less than 7 points. Even against the sorry teams we barely beat them.

Bounce here, call there we are easily 4-12 or worse last year.

After 17 regular season games and 8 preseason games his offense should be beyond run left, run left, pass.

There was no scheme to exploit the hurt secondary of the Giants. This team looked lost. Zorn looked lost.

[Skinz4Life12]

We kinda have to go 3-0 these next three weeks' date=' don't we?[/quote']

yea. we should really go 5-0 but i doubt we will. hopefully we will be sitting 4-2 after these next 5 games.

[lefty420]

We flat out sucked in every Facet, however im not that upset. We could go into North Jersey on fire and still lose, its just a tough place to play (especially to open). i think the play calling HAS to get BETTER.......... Reallly Really wishing it does (on both sides)

:doh:

Notice anything? We didn't even try to go in there and win.

1st and 10 at WAS 20 (7:27) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 21 for 1 yard (O.Umenyiora, A.Pierce).

2nd and 9 at WAS 21 (6:50) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 25 for 4 yards (J.Tuck, D.Clark). NYG-M.Johnson was injured during the play.

NYG-J.Tuck was injured during the play.

3rd and 5 at WAS 25 (6:13) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass short left to C.Cooley to WAS 31 for 6 yards (C.Blackburn, C.Webster). FUMBLES

(C.Blackburn), RECOVERED by NYG-C.Brown at WAS 20.

1st and 10 at WAS 31 (5:50) C.Portis left end to WAS 34 for 3 yards (K.Phillips).

2nd and 7 at WAS 34 (5:10) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 33 for -1 yards (C.Canty, C.Blackburn).

Timeout #1 by WAS at 04:22.

3rd and 8 at WAS 33 (4:22) L.Betts right guard to WAS 31 for -2 yards (M.Johnson).

We have fallen so far that people are fine with how we looked lol. Oh man I hope we win a game this year. I do not want to be the Lions. Could you imagine if they beat us in a couple weeks and we are still winless at the time.

Hope the lions don;t get wind of our ultra secret Run left, Run left, Pass system

[Skinz4Life12]

crazy stat from yesterday. we ran 19 running plays (not including the hunter run or a campbell scramble). we ran 3 of them to the right. on those plays we "gained" (lol) the following yards:

1 yard

-2 yards

-6 yards

ouch!

here's another interesting stat:

clinton's 1st run was for 34 yards.

he ran 15 times after that for a total of 28 yards. thats an average of 1.8 yards per carry.