WP: Wise - Zorn's Trickery Proved Rather Revealing

[lefty420]

I am not one of the Campbell haters on the board, actually I thought he was OK yesterday, some bad things but good things too. But on that play specifically seemed that Zorn was putting it on Campbell his quote was the protection was "excellent" on that play. Samuels can't keep Osi at bay forever.

And it happens. No qb or offensive player will be perfect. I also put that on Campbell.

But we had chance to win. That was early. Eli fumbled and threw a int we returned to our 11.

We got turn overs. Our play calling never gave us the chance to capitalize.

[scottishskinsfan]

It's 100% true. You could look on Zorn's face after the players were coming off and he was shaking their hands. His face had this "thank you for possibly saving my job" look on it. It was a desperate look for sure.

The players are also costing him his job.

Wide Receivers failing to get open, Campbell failing to take ANY note of what Zorn has attempting to drill into him about pocket awareness and a running game which went pretty much nowhere after the first play.

The statement about how the ARE sack play was scripted is a bit worrying however. There surely has to be a bit of bend on a "script". Zorn needs to open it up though and put some faith in Campbell who, for the most part, actually performed quite well.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

...the fact is we played better against the Giants than either game last season.... we made some progress against our toughest foe the past few years (especially at their stadium), but it wasn't enough

If I can chime in and add to your post, bubba, if we don't spot them 17 freaking points before getting on the board ourselves it's a totally different ballgame. I know if "ifs" and "buts" were candies and nuts every day would be Christmas, but still -

I have yet to see a game coached by Zorn where we just jumped all over the other team's laundry from the get-go. Not the way we used to in years past at least. I put that down to a lack of cohesive planning and in-game strategy; JG had that ability to put together a bulletproof gameplan but if he needed to adjust on the fly after the 1st or 2nd series, he could do that too. Zorn obviously doesn't have that ability yet, and the jury's still out on whether he ever will.

Is it possible that his mantra of "stay medium" is contributing in some way to his team's tendency to play up or down to their opponents' level instead of the other way around? Maybe I'm reaching here but it seems plausible.

[RedskinGodfather]

Bad Coach + Bad QB = 6 win season.

[Skinsinparadise]

Aikman said he had a clean pocket to step up into...something supposedly Zorn's worked on with Campbell for two years now.

But it's not JC's fault. It's Heyer's fault for being too slow to tackle Osi and prevent the td. Because as we all know, nothing is Campbell's fault.

I am sort of neutral on Campbell, still trying to make up my mind I like somethings about him where I can see him making it and likewise I can see it going the other way. So I got no dog in the JC debate.

But I have to say for me what makes some of the anti-Campbell posts so tough to swallow is they read just as you are depicting the Campbell defenders. To some of the anti-Campbell posters EVERYTHING is Campbell's fault.

Variations of Jim Zorn is a stud play caller who is foiled at every turn by the worst QB that has ever played the game, you don't need a good O line look at the Steelers so who cares how much pressure there is, the WR's are running wild and open at every play but Campbell is blind as a bat and doesn't see them.

I am waiting for someone to blame Campbell for D Hall's game last night. Heck if Campbell kept them on the field more maybe D Hall wouldn't have been winded and beaten as much?

[lefty420]

The players are also costing him his job.

Wide Receivers failing to get open, Campbell failing to take ANY note of what Zorn has attempting to drill into him about pocket awareness and a running game which went pretty much nowhere after the first play.

The statement about how the ARE sack play was scripted is a bit worrying however. There surely has to be a bit of bend on a "script". Zorn needs to open it up though and put some faith in Campbell who, for the most part, actually performed quite well.

:doh:

Cooley and ARE killed the Giants in the middle of the field. Campbell had 70 percent completion percentage.

The play calling stunk. We were throwing on 3rd down and long. After 2 runs to the left every drive.

Eli had a big int and fumble that should have lead to 2 td's for us. From their 11 we threw no passes into the endzone. Not I fade to Malcom.

Players made mistakes yes. So did the Giants players. But the Giants offense with no name receivers killed us cause they attacked. Hit us where we were weak and kept us on our toes. They threw on first down. They threw off of play action.

Things we did none of. We lost with our even fighting. This loss is on the coaching staff.

[DELskins]

Besides the fake FG and the ARE pass play his play calling mirrored preseason. At least in preseason I thought Zorn was "saving" the real plays for the season. The Giants game plan was to play the run and dare us to pass down field. We played right into it. I can't believe we didn't try to take advantage of any one on one match up with Malcom Kelly. That's why we drafted the guy isn't it?

[lefty420]

Never mind. Miss interpreted your post

[Skinsinparadise]

What game are you watching. When all our pass plays are 3rd and long. :doh:

So now we have tons of open receivers lol. That is cool. 1st and 2nd down we will run it left. So we can show how stud we are on 3rd down. Sounds like a plan for success. And it would work but Campbell can't see all our open receivers cause he is blind.

I guess you didn't read my post that closely, if you read the whole thing, you'd see that I was MOCKING the Campbell critics.

Never mind. Miss interpreted your post

Ha, OK, no problem.

[lefty420]

i guess you didn't read my post that closely, if you read the whole thing, you'd see that i was mocking the campbell critics.

Ha, ok, no problem.

[Philip Pease]

Against the Giants (with their cornerback problems) the game plan should have been to pass and use draws and screens to slow down the pass rush. Where were those young wide receivers in the game plan? If the Giants defense were taking Santana out of play then Kelly should have seen lots of passes. I don't know if Zorn or Campbell or Kelly was at fault.

[Rocky21]

Why would we be running scripted plays in that situation instead of plays tailored to the situation? This revelation disturbs me.

[bubba9497]

When we were backed up at the goalline in the first half, the fact that Zorn never called for one pass, tells you all you need to know about what he thinks of Jason and his offense in general.

I mean come on 90% of coaches when backed up inside the 5 against one of the best DL, early in the wouldn't call a pass play in that situation

but because Zorn didn't he doesn't trust Campbell?

riiiiiiight :thumbsup:

stop parroting announcers who are talking out their ass and think for yourself

exactly what would he be afraid JC would do to hurt the team there?

if Zorn didn't have faith in anyone it would be the OL.

and if you think calling pass plays inside the 5 is wise move, you should have watched the packers last night :hysterical:

[ZoEd]

Zorn had a look of dread about him on the sidelines the whole game. He tried to get angry but he didn't have that determination anger look. Looked more like a guy furious about his own failure.

He needs to find his backbone in a hurry because his chicken **** play calling is going destroy us this season. For the love of God man if you lose 28-0 let it be so... but let's go down fighting. This play it safe garbage of just trying to keep it close stinks of fear.

ATTACK DAMNIT and let the outcome be whatever it will.

QFT! Been saying it for years.

I'd rather get burned on a blitz as long as Eli is left weak in the knees after recovering from being sammiched between Po and Landry. I'd rather risk an interception by going deep just to have it end up incomplete than the constant checkdowns.

Quick question; if he turns that little play card upside down does it turn a couple of those runs to the left into runs to the right? How hard is it to figure out that we're going to constantly run left? If you don't trust the right side to run behind, hit Portis on some screen passes. You have to get the playmakers the ball.

Figure it out, F' this try, try again crap. We can't even keep the opposing team's line honest. I swear all Zorn is doing is regurgitating Gibb's playbook from a couple years ago, I see nothing fresh.

[Skinsinparadise]

Am listening to Theisman on the radio right now, who is a very positive guy in general -- and he's not per se negative today, he thinks they need to take more chances, loosen up, and open up the offense, he thinks the offense is too "tight" and they should let Campbell loose more but his take is they will get it together.

[bubba9497]

Aikman said he had a clean pocket to step up into...something supposedly Zorn's worked on with Campbell for two years now.

But it's not JC's fault. It's Heyer's fault for being too slow to tackle Osi and prevent the td. Because as we all know, nothing is Campbell's fault.

geez grow up, no one said JC didn't make mistakes... passing past the los, checking to a run on 3rd down, him and moss miss reading again on a long pass play

but faulting him for an outstanding play by Umi is nonsense, no matter what Aikmen says.

Aikmen and Buck said a lot of things that they were guessing at, to keep from having dead air.... he also said Zorn was yelling at Cooley when it was Heyer.......

if Aiken said jump off a bridge....... :hysterical:

so JC had room to step up... if he was in the process of throwing, and didn't think anyone was behind him... exactly why would he stop in progress to waste time to move up and reset to throw?

if Umi misses the ball, nothing would of been said about JC moving up in the pocket.

[lefty420]

Am listening to Theisman on the radio right now, who is a very positive guy in general -- and he's not per se negative today, he thinks they need to take more chances, loosen up, and open up the offense, he thinks the offense is too "tight" and they should let Campbell loose more but his take is they will get it together.

Posted this in another thread. Needs to be seen here. This is our offense. And the biggest issue we have.

Notice anything? This is the drive that lead the the "audible?" :doh:

1st and 10 at WAS 20 (7:27) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 21 for 1 yard (O.Umenyiora, A.Pierce).

2nd and 9 at WAS 21 (6:50) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 25 for 4 yards (J.Tuck, D.Clark). NYG-M.Johnson was injured during the play.

NYG-J.Tuck was injured during the play.

3rd and 5 at WAS 25 (6:13) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass short left to C.Cooley to WAS 31 for 6 yards (C.Blackburn, C.Webster). FUMBLES

(C.Blackburn), RECOVERED by NYG-C.Brown at WAS 20.

1st and 10 at WAS 31 (5:50) C.Portis left end to WAS 34 for 3 yards (K.Phillips).

2nd and 7 at WAS 34 (5:10) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 33 for -1 yards (C.Canty, C.Blackburn).

Timeout #1 by WAS at 04:22.

3rd and 8 at WAS 33 (4:22) L.Betts right guard to WAS 31 for -2 yards (M.Johnson).

This will not win you championships. Looks amateur and what you expect from say a newb in madden. How much thought does this game plan take? Why is is so hard to get the play in in time if this is all we are doing.

Say it again, we have a QB coach as our Head Coach. This is what that offense would look like lol

[cphil006]

ARE could have just thrown it, instead of taking the 11 yard loss.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Trick plays should be the icing on the cake. For us, they seem to be the cake.

That was a beautifully designed fake. But still, we needed Hunter Smith to run 12 yards for it to work. That seems like a lot to ask.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

geez grow up, no one said JC didn't make mistakes... passing past the los, checking to a run on 3rd down, him and moss miss reading again on a long pass play

but faulting him for an outstanding play by Umi is nonsense, no matter what Aikmen says.

Aikmen and Buck said a lot of things that they were guessing at, to keep from having dead air.... he also said Zorn was yelling at Cooley when it was Heyer.......

if Aiken said jump off a bridge....... :hysterical:

so JC had room to step up... if he was in the process of throwing, and didn't think anyone was behind him... exactly why would he stop in progress to waste time to move up and reset to throw?

if Umi misses the ball, nothing would of been said about JC moving up in the pocket.

Bubba, that play was awful. 95 percent of the QBs feel that movement to their blind side and step up. The other 5 percent end up playing in Detroit.

[Critz1407]

The Play calling was bad in general. maybe they it was based on that Giants pass rush was going to get alot of pressure. If that was the case what we were doing in the first half wasn't working so we should have made adjustments in the second half, but we didn't. I'm just hoping that it was the first game and we weren't really sure where we stood. That still isn't a good thing but I would atleast have a reason.

I just feel we didn't game plan well against the giants on defense or offense. thier corners were new but we didn't press them. That didn't make sense. Thier corners were injured but we didn't game plan to test them much. Where was Malcom Kelly, Where was Devin Thomas? I undertsand they took away Moss. That should leave other opitons which it did for ARE and cooley but we didn't use them enough. We weren't taking what they were giving us.

Red Zone offense was horrendous. we took no shots at the End zone through passing until way too late. There are just so many things with the game plan that were wrong. Add that to JC's mistakes and that makes up the game. (if JC hadn't stepped up in the pocket and hot had Umi take one to the house we would be talking about a win instead of a loss.)

If next week we look as lost as we did this game even if we win we are looking for a long season, and a new coach and QB next season.

[MattFancy]

I swear I saw Cooley and Portis come off the field a few times just shaking their heads. I just don't think Zorn should be calling the plays. I think that's the main problem. Zorn's schemes could work, we just need someone with experience calling the plays.

[lefty420]

I swear I saw Cooley and Portis come off the field a few times just shaking their heads. I just don't think Zorn should be calling the plays. I think that's the main problem. Zorn's schemes could work, we just need someone with experience calling the plays.

Yes and no.

Yes we need some one calling the plays. No I do not think Zorn's schemes will work. He has no schemes. He is lost, confused and just out of his league.

We are down 7 in the 3rd and we go run left, run left, and pass. We end up punting.

We should have come out and attacked their middle. Slants, crosses. Set up the big play. Nothing we do seems to be setting anything up. Our offense looks lost from one play to the next.

We look like a HS team on offense.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't if it's the playcalling or the execution, but here is one my big issues from yesterday.

If it is 3rd and 6, we are going to throw the ball 7 yards. If it is 3rd and 4, we are going to throw the ball 5 yards.

This actually worked a little bit yesterday, but it makes scoring an absolute chorse, because it requires constant 10 or 11 play drives. And eventually, you are going to take a sack or get a holding call or something.

There is no "attack" in our offense unless we announce it from the loudspeakers (trying to throw a 60 yard bomb, trying a reverse pass, etc).

Where is the 18 yard in route? Where are the plays that eat up 15 or 20 yards? The only time we got plays like that were on broke plays or on the last drive.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Bad Coach + Bad QB = 6 win season.

i still think 7 wins, something will bump our way in one of these games. remember, were incapable of just beating a team straight up.