Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 BLC cant help but contradict himself in his blind beliefs. He was the first to bash Brunell, even demeaning his play in 05 so he knows damn well we've had trouble in the passing game even then. and dont give me this crap. i wasnt even here in 05 so you have no clue what i was thinking that season (i thought brunell was very good most of the time). 06 was another story. bashing brunell in 05 for throwing 23 TDs would have been ridiculous. bashing him in 06 when he was clearly past it and needed to be replaced with our "future" QB is completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 1. Campbell’s receivers led the league in dropped passes with 39. We repeat – Redskins receivers dropped more passes than anyone else in football in 2008. 2. Receivers Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El both ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in dropped passes. Moss ranked second with 12 (behind only Cleveland’s Braylon Edwards with 15), while Randle El was tied for ninth with nine drops. Washington Post and iWon sports both have Moss in 7th with 8 drops. Randle El is not in the top 10 according to them. Those FO stats seem off to me, I seem to recall another source saying the Skins were something like 14th in dropped passes last season. FO must have unusual standards for what they call a dropped pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST is my boy Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Score one for the CAMP!!! Haha....in all seriousness this was a much needed breakdown around here. It might not tell the whole story, obviously. But I just hope it gives some of the "I need everyone to know Jason sucks" posters a chance to take a second take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 So now hes throwing jumpballs into traffic or to Moss at a standstill? I thought he didnt go deep often enough.But if he did go deep it was innaccurate almost always. Or it was to a standing still Santana Moss, despite being 8th amongst receivers in YAC. moss is sick in space, we all know. campbell could throw that moss screen or a short pass over the middle and moss can ballerina all over the field. my point with all of this is that campbell needs to hit guys in stride more often. hitting guys in stride, whether its deep or over the middle, will utilize their speed and generate more PI calls from guys grasping to keep up with them. he can throw into traffic to kelly all day long, thats kellys responsibility at 6-4 to grab stuff out of the air. he cannot do this with moss/are though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Washington Post and iWon sports both have Moss in 7th with 8 drops. Randle El is not in the top 10 according to them. Those FO stats seem off to me, I seem to recall another source saying the Skins were something like 14th in dropped passes last season. FO must have unusual standards for what they call a dropped pass. i remember this as well, i do know that we did drop passes last year but i dont remember us being #1 by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Patten was still a viable threat, and even did well in New Orleans after he left us. You're only embarrassing yourself... please read my edit as well, as I remind you of your contradictory nature. Such a big threat he averaged a whole 24.1 yards a game. Let's get back to Jason. All I am saying is if you give Todd the same offense that Jason plays with then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Such a big threat he averaged a whole 24.1 yards a game. people tell me im being "revisionist" with brunell. my god how could anybody with a straight face say patten was the reason moss did much better? hilarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 youre right, im making up that in 2005 we didnt have a passing game outside of the dallas game. brunell didnt throw 23 TDs and we didnt score a ton of points that season. i have no idea what i was thinking. thank god we had david patten to take the heat off of moss. cause teams really paid attention to the deadly david patten. didnt you know thats why todd collins was successful in 07? reche caldwell was there to take the heat off of moss. how come moss plays his best when other QBs are throwing the ball? lol Yeah and 16 of 23 TDs were RZ TDs. Not to mention Brunell only threw 31 passes of 31 yards or more. Thats 2 a game. And we know about the miracles to Moss, obviously saving the season. Really youre going to try to tell me those 29 other attempts were the difference and not the RZ performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titus3 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Washington Post and iWon sports both have Moss in 7th with 8 drops. Randle El is not in the top 10 according to them. Those FO stats seem off to me, I seem to recall another source saying the Skins were something like 14th in dropped passes last season. FO must have unusual standards for what they call a dropped pass. +1 http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Patten was still a viable threat, and even did well in New Orleans after he left us. You're only embarrassing yourself... please read my edit as well, as I remind you of your contradictory nature. Patten was anything but a viable threat. He was constantly injured. Let's at least try to be honest in assessments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 He was able to do it because we had a WR on the other side who could take the double teams off of Moss. Patten may have had a tough time actually catching the ball, defenses seemed to respect him. Once he went down for the season, so did the passing game.Since then, we haven't had a guy on the other side which the defense respected enough. ARE is miscast as a #2 WR. He should be a slot guy. The good thing is the coaching staff recognizes that. You really think Santana was burning up defenses because they were preoccupied with David Patten???? That is absolutely preposterous. He's Santana's size with less speed and less talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 youre right, im making up that in 2005 we didnt have a passing game outside of the dallas game. brunell didnt throw 23 TDs and we didnt score a ton of points that season. i have no idea what i was thinking. thank god we had david patten to take the heat off of moss. cause teams really paid attention to the deadly david patten. didnt you know thats why todd collins was successful in 07? reche caldwell was there to take the heat off of moss. how come moss plays his best when other QBs are throwing the ball? lol Ok, let me run the numbers by you: Brunell Average passing yards before Patten's injury: 222.6 7.1 avg Average passing yards after Patten's injury: 158.6 6.8 avg Note the first number also includes the partial game he played against Chicago and the debacle at Giants stadium that year which probably knock the numbers lower than they should have been. Believe me, I was amazed at the time how much Patten's absence seemed to hurt the passing game, but it is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST is my boy Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 people tell me im being "revisionist" with brunell. my god how could anybody with a straight face say patten was the reason moss did much better? hilarity. Yeah I kinda agree.....thought Patten kinda sucked here.....but I would have to see some stats. That being said I just think Brunell had more time to throw, and had a dominate running game. Much like JC had for the first half of the season, in which he played solid. I wish we would go back to throwing screens to Moss. I swear Brunell got credited for like 6 TD's all from just throwing screens to Moss......Santana was a freaken Magician after the catch that year......get the ball in his hands!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 people tell me im being "revisionist" with brunell. my god how could anybody with a straight face say patten was the reason moss did much better? hilarity. Seriously. My jaw hit the floor when I saw that. It's absolutely absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 cooley was a dump off machine last year. how many of those TE screens did he catch? id love to see that number. cooleys YPC has gone down a yard every year campbell has started. it was down almost 2 yards last year from where it was the year before. SO what are you saying about the YPC? Because hes become a release valve hes got lower YPC numbers? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 and dont give me this crap. i wasnt even here in 05 so you have no clue what i was thinking that season (i thought brunell was very good most of the time). 06 was another story. bashing brunell in 05 for throwing 23 TDs would have been ridiculous.bashing him in 06 when he was clearly past it and needed to be replaced with our "future" QB is completely different. lol, when did I say you we're bashing him in 05 on here? I said you demeaned his play in 05, meaning you played down how good he was. You rarely gave Brunell credit for anything, attributing almost everything he did to Moss lighting it up. You're not even worth arguing against. You're contradictions (throw for PI, but admitting there's no WR to do that to) are outrageous, your exaggerations baseless (Campbell never made the defense pay, yet Cooley and Moss actually had great years statistically... they must've been throwing the balls to themselves, Patten being absolutely worthless, etc..), and your rebuttals in your own defense are laughable (saying you don't mean to throw it up to Moss when he's standing still, but failing to account for the possibility of a safety over the top). Get over yourself. Your act is so damn tired around here, honestly. Not one player has been immune from your exaggerating, contradictory nature. Carlos Rogers, Brunell, Todd Collins, etc... have all seen your wrath in its usual excessive nature only to be contradicted by praise later on. You would've cut them all. Just stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Not to question the validity of one site over another, but I wonder just what gage each uses to define "dropped passes"; as a few have our wide outs around the middle of the road in the league, along with the Post, as has been referenced already, whilst FO now have us at #1. I forget which sites did, but I'm sure someone will remember as they were frequently put up during the Cutler trade threads. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 moss is sick in space, we all know. campbell could throw that moss screen or a short pass over the middle and moss can ballerina all over the field.my point with all of this is that campbell needs to hit guys in stride more often. hitting guys in stride, whether its deep or over the middle, will utilize their speed and generate more PI calls from guys grasping to keep up with them. he can throw into traffic to kelly all day long, thats kellys responsibility at 6-4 to grab stuff out of the air. he cannot do this with moss/are though. Im not following here. Hitting Moss in stride would generate more PI calls how? It obviously would increase YAC, but why would guys be all of a sudden grasping at moss? Are they not doing so now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Such a big threat he averaged a whole 24.1 yards a game.Let's get back to Jason. All I am saying is if you give Todd the same offense that Jason plays with then we wouldn't be having this discussion. people tell me im being "revisionist" with brunell. my god how could anybody with a straight face say patten was the reason moss did much better? hilarity. Patten was anything but a viable threat.He was constantly injured. Let's at least try to be honest in assessments. Ok, let me run the numbers by you:Brunell Average passing yards before Patten's injury: 222.6 7.1 avg Average passing yards after Patten's injury: 158.6 6.8 avg Note the first number also includes the partial game he played against Chicago and the debacle at Giants stadium that year which probably knock the numbers lower than they should have been. Believe me, I was amazed at the time how much Patten's absence seemed to hurt the passing game, but it is true. Longshot, they're proving they don't know anything they're talking about. I'm starting to think they don't even watch the games. How anyone could say there was no noticeable difference in our passing game with/without Patten is a disgusting display of blindness to say the least. They use Patten's stats as if that is the end all to the argument, when a WR does more than just put up stats, and a lot of times is used as a decoy more than anything! Even friggin TO understood this. It's funny stats now mean everything to them when it comes to Patten's contributions to our offense in 05, but the stats provided in the very article they're responding to right now about Campbell are danced around! :doh: Yeah and 16 of 23 TDs were RZ TDs. Not to mention Brunell only threw 31 passes of 31 yards or more. Thats 2 a game. And we know about the miracles to Moss, obviously saving the season. Really youre going to try to tell me those 29 other attempts were the difference and not the RZ performance? :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezcal14 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 first of all, patten didnt do anything, you can continue pretending he did, youre just wrong. so we can move on from that.as far as the PI calls go. going deep will get him more PI calls for sure, regardless of double coverage. if moss is gunning downfield and campbell throws the ball perfectly, moss will have a shot everytime. thats not some jump ball or a throw that a saftey waits on. sure if he underthrows it you have a point, but i expect our QB to be able to hit that type of pass. and my point about campbell throwing jump balls into traffic to moss should be pretty self explanatory. thats NOT where he should be drawing his PI calls, they should be on deep routes or short slant routes where our guys can use their speed to get separation from defenders and force them to grab our guys to stop them. throwing to moss at a standstill because campbell waited to long is going to crush moss and cause passes defended. He just said he expects JC to throw into double coverage. Yes, you read that right: double coverage. To the 5'10 Santana Moss. And then he'd come out with more TDs/PIs. What? Do you want him to do this drunk, while hopping on one foot, and reciting the alphabet backwards? Because what you're "expecting" is ludicrous. That's why we have the term "arm chair GM/coach", because of statements like this. This is why you're not a coach in the NFL. Move along people, there's nothing to see here; this man is officially insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Any serious football fan should buy the FO Almanac. You may not always agree with some of their methodologies or even data collection, but at least they're intellectually honest about what they try to present. Here's another fun Campbell stat for the "he's dumb/can't read a defense" crowd. Zone-blitzing the Redskins may not be the wisest move. Washington faced more zone blitzes than any other offense — 7.1 percent of pass plays — and shredded those blitzes with 89.1% DVOA, the best in the NFC. The numbers look even better if you take out division rival Philadelphia. In the other 14 games, Jason Campbell was 20-of-29 against zone blitzes, averaging 10.0 yards per play (including a five-yard scramble on third and 2) with only one sack and no turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paigums Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 how come moss plays his best when other QBs are throwing the ball? lol that's too easy....SABOTAAAAAAAGE!!!!!!!! :evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 The other reason Moss was so successful in 05 was due to the unknown of our offense. Nobody was quite sure how we would come out and attack with Gibbs 2 (other thanthe obvious smashmouth running game). Doesn't that sound farmiliar (first 8 games last season). Once defenses got a hold of some game-tape in 05 they game planned to take Moss out, it had nothing to due with Patten getting injured but more to do with defenses catching up with what we were trying to do thus making changes accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bay Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Nice article, Murf. Good research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST is my boy Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Yea....throws to Moss in double coverage are not going to ever get us PI calls.....just not going to happen. They are going to be picks.....that will then be blamed on Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.