ES: Campbell haters beware

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

:hysterical: He just backed himself into a corner.

The same goes for your PI stat.

Because in the NFL you don't have wide open WRs on a regular basis?

You are doing a good job defending my premise. Keep it up.

you guys are cute. if campbell could hit guys in stride he wouldnt have this problem. we have guys that are really fast, not really tall. when they break, he needs to be able to zing it to them at full speed. instead of chucking the ball up for a plaxico type catch, he needs to be throwing those todd collins passes. you know, the ones actually on target so moss can utilize his speed instead of pretending hes a high jumper in the Olympics?

and longshot, lol at not even answering my question. forget the PI, why was campbell ranked so poorly in yards through the air.

[TheLongshot]

im getting it. santana is one of the best deep threats in the league. why wasnt campbell chucking it to him downfield A LOT last season? brunell was able to do it in 05. even at the beginning of the season, before the oline "broke down" JC wasnt attempting those homerun throws with moss, which is exactly the type of receiver he is. thats how you draw PI calls, have moss streaking down the field and campbell hitting those deep balls. that saints play last year should be a staple in this offense, and we see it like once a month.

ill agree, we need that big guy in the redzone (kelly, thomas) but cooley is 6-4 and he didnt find him once last year. as i always say, unacceptable.

He was able to do it because we had a WR on the other side who could take the double teams off of Moss. Patten may have had a tough time actually catching the ball, defenses seemed to respect him. Once he went down for the season, so did the passing game.

Since then, we haven't had a guy on the other side which the defense respected enough. ARE is miscast as a #2 WR. He should be a slot guy. The good thing is the coaching staff recognizes that.

[eljeasel]

Nice article. More effort than the typical. Very good stuff. I also happen to agree with it almost entirely. I do point the finger at Campbell as well, I just point it last not first.

[Annonymous Source]

For Jason to be successful he can get better mentally but the biggest thing he needs is the ability to make the players around him better, Todd obviously did that in '07.

This is actually not true. Collins just had more players to work with. Most people forget that while Campbell was struggling to win games the team didnt have Portis or Moss and Jansen was hurt.

The simple fact of the matter is even when healthy the O-Line is not even average. When injured they have so little depth that it is honestly scary.

At some point in time we need to make an honest assesment of the Offensive line talent, and that starts with Joe Bugel. The lack of picks along the O-Line is an obvious hallmark of his tenure. The last sucessful O-Line pick we had was Derrick Dockery. Since Bugel has been here the biggest success story to come from our offensive line has been Stephon Heyer.

I think that he became accustomed to finding talent without having to draft (just look at the hogs) and so doesnt demand anything from Snyder.

We have built the Defense through the draft and it has become sucessful, we have left the offense alone, or signed free agents and it has foundered. Simple formula to understand.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

He was able to do it because we had a WR on the other side who could take the double teams off of Moss. Patten may have had a tough time actually catching the ball, defenses seemed to respect him. Once he went down for the season, so did the passing game.

Since then, we haven't had a guy on the other side which the defense respected enough. ARE is miscast as a #2 WR. He should be a slot guy. The good thing is the coaching staff recognizes that.

100% false. patten contributed next to nothing, which is why danny went out and got ARE and BLloyd. spare me the "he had other options". moss was a one man wrecking crew because brunell found some gas left in the tank and was able to hit him in stride on those deep routes. which backed teams up, which allowed portis to set the rushing record.

campbell doesnt have that deep accuracy that brunell had that season. if he did, we'd all be singing a different tune. but please dont sit here and claim moss had less heat on his with david friggin patten.

[TSO]

im getting it. santana is one of the best deep threats in the league. why wasnt campbell chucking it to him downfield A LOT last season? brunell was able to do it in 05. even at the beginning of the season, before the oline "broke down" JC wasnt attempting those homerun throws with moss, which is exactly the type of receiver he is. thats how you draw PI calls, have moss streaking down the field and campbell hitting those deep balls. that saints play last year should be a staple in this offense, and we see it like once a month.

ill agree, we need that big guy in the redzone (kelly, thomas) but cooley is 6-4 and he didnt find him once last year. as i always say, unacceptable.

So now you're using Brunell hitting Moss deep consistently in 05 as a barometer? The same Brunell who, in 2006, couldn't hit the same Moss deep as consistently? What was the difference? Oh yeah, the cover 2 as according to Brunell (lol). Face it, teams in this league can take away the thing that's working for you, and force you to do other things until you prove you can. Don't forget that by the end of 05, we understood we needed more playmakers at WR (Brandon Lloyd, Randle El).

Did you see how many times Moss got behind a defense last year? Not many. The Safeties made sure of it, and furthermore, our Oline wasn't giving us the time to let routes develop downfield. It was painfully obvious.

As for Cooley, you've got to think about it from the defense's perspective. It's easy to defend the Skins in the redzone when they've got two smaller WRs that need time and space to get open using their speed, so you one up on both of them and double Cooley. Everyone else watches Portis. It's why draws were working at first, along with screens and quick ins to Moss in the red zone. But that was it.

[TSO]

100% false. patten contributed next to nothing, which is why danny went out and got ARE and BLloyd. spare me the "he had other options". moss was a one man wrecking crew because brunell found some gas left in the tank and was able to hit him in stride on those deep routes. which backed teams up, which allowed portis to set the rushing record.

campbell doesnt have that deep accuracy that brunell had that season. if he did, we'd all be singing a different tune. but please dont sit here and claim moss had less heat on his with david friggin patten.

That's 100% false, Patten absolutely did contribute when he was healthy in 05, and teams definitely did respect him. How could you not remember the noticeable drop off when we lost him that year? The biggest reason we went and got Randle El and Lloyd was because we felt Patten couldn't stay healthy!

By the way, BLC, you're still avoiding this:

Ahhh, and therein lies the problem. You're finally getting it!

So you want Campbell to generate more PI calls by taking risks, but yet you're admitting Campbell doesn't have guys to throw those types of passes to, lol. Then you question what he's thinking trying to throw those types of passes!

You're contradicting yourself like crazy. You asked "what is Campbell thinking trying to throw those type of passes to guys like that", yet you want him to do that exact thing to generate PI calls? If Moss is double covered deep, how many times is he going to come down with the ball, or generate a PI? What's more likely is an INT or batted ball, which is a lost play. Again, how many times was Moss running behind the defense last season? Were you watching?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

So now you're using Brunell hitting Moss deep consistently in 05 as a barometer? The same Brunell who, in 2006, couldn't hit the same Moss deep as consistently? What was the difference? Oh yeah, the cover 2 as according to Brunell. Face it, teams in this league can take away the thing that's working for you, and force you to do other things until you prove you can. Don't forget that by the end of 05, we understood we needed more playmakers at WR (Brandon Lloyd, Randle El).

Did you see how many times Moss got behind a defense last year? Not many. The Safeties made sure of it, and furthermore, our Oline wasn't giving us the time to let routes develop downfield. It was painfully obvious.

As for Cooley, you've got to think about it from the defense's perspective. It's easy to defend the Skins in the redzone when they've got two smaller WRs that need time and space to get open using their speed, so you one up on both of them and double Cooley. Everyone else watches Portis. It's why draws were working at first, along with screens and quick ins to Moss in the red zone. But that was it.

so defenses were aware that moss was a deep threat, so they backed off. why didnt campbell make them pay with good intermediate routes? cooley over the deep middle for 20 yards? moss on a little post over the middle behind the LB? our safties do this every game, we give away that part of the field. the QBs eat it up all day, see tom brady 2007.

they took the bomb away from campbell, and he couldnt do anything about it. and again, so what if theres a saftey there? maybe thats when you draw the PI calls. you trying to tell me that every saftey in the league is gonna keep up with moss going 100% down the field? i think not.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

That's 100% false, Patten absolutely did contribute when he was healthy in 05, and teams definitely did respect him. How could you not remember the noticeable drop off when we lost him that year? The biggest reason we went and got Randle El and Lloyd was because we felt Patten couldn't stay healthy!

patten posted 200 yards in 9 games for us that season. please stop embarrassing yourself.

[Annonymous Source]

Our current recievers are very good at generating Yards After Catch, but they are not good fits for the type of routes that Zorn wants to run. When Gibbs was here these were exactly the type of WR that fit because his passing style was more vertical, and was all about change of pace. Under Zorn we need that posession reciever that can keep us moving the chains and I dont think it is either Moss or El.

As for 05, BLloyd keeps bringing that up like it was some golden year for passing, but outside of the Dallas game the passing attack was woeful. The number of passes that Brunell threw out of bounds in itself was a statistic worth charting. I love Moss for the great plays he always makes against Dallas, and I love El for the gutsy way he plays, but at this point in time neither one is a viable #1 reciever.

[TSO]

patten posted 200 yards in 9 games for us that season. please stop embarrassing yourself.

Patten was still a viable threat, and even did well in New Orleans after he left us. You're only embarrassing yourself... please read my edit as well, as I remind you of your contradictory nature.

[SoCalSkins]

1. Campbell’s receivers led the league in dropped passes with 39. We repeat – Redskins receivers dropped more passes than anyone else in football in 2008.

2. Receivers Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El both ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in dropped passes. Moss ranked second with 12 (behind only Cleveland’s Braylon Edwards with 15), while Randle El was tied for ninth with nine drops.

3. Running back Clinton Portis only had six drops. Compared to Moss and Randle El that seems okay, but he was actually third in the league in percentage of dropped passes (17 percent).

Making an acrobatic attempt at an inaccurate ball will count as a drop if it touches the receiver. If JC is an accurate passer, then he would be willing to throw into tight spaces, but that is not the case. JC has 1 PI call drawn by his receivers in all of 2008. 1 in 508 attempts. He only throws to wide open guys, and isn't very good at delivering a catchable ball.

4.Campbell was also in the top 10 in the NFL last season in passes defended with 50 – meaning if Campbell threw a “jump ball,” more times than not, the defender beat the receiver on the play.

Or the pass was horrid. If he was accurate, he would have his receivers draw more than 1 PI call. When an errant ball bounces off of a Redskin, it is a "drop". When an errant ball bounces off of a defender, it is a "pass defended"

5.Campbell was sixth best in the league in percentage of overthrown passes. He overthrew his wideouts 18 times, which works out to 3.6 percent. Conversely, Derek Anderson of the Browns overthrew his receivers a league-worst nine percent of the time.

6.Campbell was second best in the NFL in under thrown passes (6.4 percent), trailing only Matt Schaub of the Houston Texans (4.9 percent). It should also be noted that Campbell attempted 126 more passes than the injury-prone Schaub. Oakland’s JaMarcus Russell led the league in underthrown passes (16.5 percent).

Campbell was 36th in the league in air yards per attempt. Meaning he primarily threw short underneath passes. Combine that with the uncatchable balls that bounced of of his target we just discussed and you have your answer.

7.Campbell was fifth in the NFL in QB hits with 47, and tied for third in quarterback knockdowns with 88. In fact, Campbell got knocked down more than 16 percent of the time he dropped back to pass, which was eighth most in the league.

Campbell calls all of the line protection and is responsible for coordinating who the line and backs block. In the NFL, once you are exposed for a weakness, you will be tested until you can respond. We are still waiting for Campbell to respond. Combine that with his willingness to only throw to wide open targets, and you get a guy who spends a lot of time on the ground.

8.In spite of all of this, Campbell was eighth in the NFL in quarterback accuracy at 85.7. This statistic factors in passes that are not thrown ahead or behind, overthrown or underthrown or out of bounds.

When the majority of your passes are low risk dump offs to only wide open targets, you end up with a decent accuracy number when you factor out balls bouncing off of guys that were poorly delivered. You also end up not scoring many points, particularly against better teams. Like the Redskins average of 7.5 points per game against teams with 10 or more wins in 2008.

Jason Campbell is a fraud. He plays a gutless low risk style of football to prevent being exposed for how horrid of a player he actually is. Instead of trying to win, we get a guy who seemingly doesn't make many mistakes and with the high level of surrounding talent, is carried to W's against mediocre teams.

At least he knows his limitations. It is the guys that actually have confidence and want to win that get exposed quickly. 5 years in the NFL for one of the worst starting QB's in Redskins history isn't too shabby. Thankfully, there won't be a sixth.

[TSO]

so defenses were aware that moss was a deep threat, so they backed off. why didnt campbell make them pay with good intermediate routes? cooley over the deep middle for 20 yards? moss on a little post over the middle behind the LB? our safties do this every game, we give away that part of the field. the QBs eat it up all day, see tom brady 2007.

they took the bomb away from campbell, and he couldnt do anything about it. and again, so what if theres a saftey there? maybe thats when you draw the PI calls. you trying to tell me that every saftey in the league is gonna keep up with moss going 100% down the field? i think not.

lol, look at this exaggerating. You mean to tell me Campbell didn't make a defense pay EVER? He did many times, but the problem is, we couldn't do it consistently. Part of that was the dropped balls, and part of that was the Oline, and part of that was Campbell not making the best decision.

STOP EXAGGERATING!

[Annonymous Source]

patten posted 200 yards in 9 games for us that season. please stop embarrassing yourself.

There was a noticeable decrease in completions to Moss after Patten got hurt. It was because even though Patten wasnt a threat he was a much greater threat than Taylor Jacobs. At least when Patten was on the field only one of the safeties was shadowing Moss.

[TSO]

Our current recievers are very good at generating Yards After Catch, but they are not good fits for the type of routes that Zorn wants to run. When Gibbs was here these were exactly the type of WR that fit because his passing style was more vertical, and was all about change of pace. Under Zorn we need that posession reciever that can keep us moving the chains and I dont think it is either Moss or El.

As for 05, BLloyd keeps bringing that up like it was some golden year for passing, but outside of the Dallas game the passing attack was woeful. The number of passes that Brunell threw out of bounds in itself was a statistic worth charting. I love Moss for the great plays he always makes against Dallas, and I love El for the gutsy way he plays, but at this point in time neither one is a viable #1 reciever.

BLC cant help but contradict himself in his blind beliefs. He was the first to bash Brunell, even demeaning his play in 05 so he knows damn well we've had trouble in the passing game even then.

[surfersvida]

It is possible that a lot of dropped passes were due to passes being poorly thrown. Not just short or long, but behind the receiver or too far in front. Either way, none of this is good news.

Now we're really looking for excuses, huh?

A dropped pass is a dropped pass. Any wideout in this league should be able to catch a ball that is in/near his hands.

[eljeasel]

so defenses were aware that moss was a deep threat, so they backed off. why didnt campbell make them pay with good intermediate routes? cooley over the deep middle for 20 yards? moss on a little post over the middle behind the LB? our safties do this every game, we give away that part of the field. the QBs eat it up all day, see tom brady 2007.

they took the bomb away from campbell, and he couldnt do anything about it. and again, so what if theres a saftey there? maybe thats when you draw the PI calls. you trying to tell me that every saftey in the league is gonna keep up with moss going 100% down the field? i think not.

You mean by hitting Cooley with more receptions (83) for more yards (849) than hes ever got in any other season ever?

63 of these receptions came in the 1-20 yard range for 640 yards.

maybe thats when you draw the PI calls. you trying to tell me that every saftey in the league is gonna keep up with moss going 100% down the field? i think not

Nah, they typically use cloud 2 coverage so its one over the top one underneath so its rarely if ever a straight line footrace with moss.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

That's 100% false, Patten absolutely did contribute when he was healthy in 05, and teams definitely did respect him. How could you not remember the noticeable drop off when we lost him that year? The biggest reason we went and got Randle El and Lloyd was because we felt Patten couldn't stay healthy!

By the way, BLC, you're still avoiding this:

You're contradicting yourself like crazy. You asked "what is Campbell thinking trying to throw those type of passes to guys like that", yet you want him to do that exact thing to generate PI calls? If Moss is double covered deep, how many times is he going to come down with the ball, or generate a PI? What's more likely is an INT or batted ball, which is a lost play. Again, how many times was Moss running behind the defense last season? Were you watching?

Patten was still a viable threat, and even did well in New Orleans after he left us. You're only embarrassing yourself... please read my edit as well, as I remind you of your contradictory nature.

first of all, patten didnt do anything, you can continue pretending he did, youre just wrong. so we can move on from that.

as far as the PI calls go. going deep will get him more PI calls for sure, regardless of double coverage. if moss is gunning downfield and campbell throws the ball perfectly, moss will have a shot everytime. thats not some jump ball or a throw that a saftey waits on. sure if he underthrows it you have a point, but i expect our QB to be able to hit that type of pass.

and my point about campbell throwing jump balls into traffic to moss should be pretty self explanatory. thats NOT where he should be drawing his PI calls, they should be on deep routes or short slant routes where our guys can use their speed to get separation from defenders and force them to grab our guys to stop them. throwing to moss at a standstill because campbell waited to long is going to crush moss and cause passes defended.

[Bzapf]

Now we're really looking for excuses, huh?

A dropped pass is a dropped pass. Any wideout in this league should be able to catch a ball that is in/near his hands.

QFE. We had too many drops that were inexcusable.

I also think that our only effective receivers being under 5'10 played a huge role in Campbell's struggles.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

youre right, im making up that in 2005 we didnt have a passing game outside of the dallas game. brunell didnt throw 23 TDs and we didnt score a ton of points that season. i have no idea what i was thinking.

thank god we had david patten to take the heat off of moss. cause teams really paid attention to the deadly david patten. didnt you know thats why todd collins was successful in 07? reche caldwell was there to take the heat off of moss.

how come moss plays his best when other QBs are throwing the ball? lol

[McD5]

Jason Campbell is a fraud. He plays a gutless low risk style of football to prevent being exposed for how horrid of a player he actually is. Instead of trying to win, we get a guy who seemingly doesn't make many mistakes and with the high level of surrounding talent, is carried to W's against mediocre teams.

At least he knows his limitations. It is the guys that actually have confidence and want to win that get exposed quickly. 5 years in the NFL for one of the worst starting QB's in Redskins history isn't too shabby. Thankfully, there won't be a sixth.

Murf's points were good.

This rebuttal was also strong.

A case can be made in either direction.

[ucfSKINS]

As always, great write up Murf. Insightful and well thought out. Lets see what the cult will do to spin this.

I hope and pray everynight our O-line can stay SOMEWHAT healthy for the year. Please o please!

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You mean by hitting Cooley with more receptions (83) for more yards (849) than hes ever got in any other season ever?

63 of these receptions came in the 1-20 yard range for 640 yards.

Nah, they typically use cloud 2 coverage so its one over the top one underneath so its rarely if ever a straight line footrace with moss.

cooley was a dump off machine last year. how many of those TE screens did he catch? id love to see that number. cooleys YPC has gone down a yard every year campbell has started. it was down almost 2 yards last year from where it was the year before.

[eljeasel]

first of all, patten didnt do anything, you can continue pretending he did, youre just wrong. so we can move on from that.

as far as the PI calls go. going deep will get him more PI calls for sure, regardless of double coverage. if moss is gunning downfield and campbell throws the ball perfectly, moss will have a shot everytime. thats not some jump ball or a throw that a saftey waits on. sure if he underthrows it you have a point, but i expect our QB to be able to hit that type of pass.

and my point about campbell throwing jump balls into traffic to moss should be pretty self explanatory. thats NOT where he should be drawing his PI calls, they should be on deep routes or short slant routes where our guys can use their speed to get separation from defenders and force them to grab our guys to stop them. throwing to moss at a standstill because campbell waited to long is going to crush moss and cause passes defended.

So now hes throwing jumpballs into traffic or to Moss at a standstill? I thought he didnt go deep often enough.

But if he did go deep it was innaccurate almost always. Or it was to a standing still Santana Moss, despite being 8th amongst receivers in YAC.

[CrypticVillain]

Under Zorn we need that posession reciever that can keep us moving the chains and I dont think it is either Moss or El.

Did Moss just not put up 79 rec and 1,044yds in his first year in this offense.