artmonkforHOF Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I am sick of reading articles or threads about how great Kelly & Thomas WILL be, or how much POTENTIAL they have, or how they will contribute this year, or how hungry they are to prove themselves this year. It is time to put up or shut up, so I request a moratorium on Thomas & Kelly threads, and ask that all supporters post FACTS ONLY in this thread. that means, post their stats (when they start getting some). Now, not everything in football can be measured by stats, so feel free to posts video's, articles etc about the great block one of them makes to spring Portis for a nice run, or how either one of them commands enough respect from the defense that teams can no longer slide a safety over to help cover Moss. No more pre season or training camp hype, no media spin on how IF one of these guys can come along, how great it would make the offense, or how they MIGHT help let Moss get more open. This thread is for what these guys actually do on the field during the regular season to help this team win games because that is what they where brought in here to do, not help fill sports column pages with tales of potential. Remember, these two where suppose to be SO good, that they where going to help the team "right away" (quote from Danny, Zorn & Vinny's post draft press conference). I would love for one of these 2 guys to turn into a stud WR, but I don't want to hear "wait for it" anymore, if they where that good it would be showing up somehow by now. So please use this thread to show just exactly how these guys are contributing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jweisk1 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Kelly had a very nice catch over the middle against Baltimore = fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santana_4_prez Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Guess you are going to have to wait awhile for some facts. It's the preseason dude, what else are we supposed to talk about? At this point, there are no facts, everybody is 0-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchip703 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 you mean like how it showed up in Santana's 1st year in the NFL.....or Michael Irvin's...no wait.. Surely last year's Pro Bowl WR's all had phenomenal first years.. Let's see ... Roddy White, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall. 1st year stats- not that good. WR is the one position you do have to wait for it a little bit longer. Hopefully they will show some definite improvement this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinklein Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Here's a fact. They've played one year. Here's another fact. Some players take longer than others to develop. Here's another fact. This message board already has such an exorbitant amount of cynics, pompous know-it-alls and chicken littles that I'm beginning to think it's an appropriate sample of the entire fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 This thread is for what these guys actually do on the field during the regular season to help this team win games because that is what they where brought in here to do, not help fill sports column pages with tales of potential. Then why create this thread at the beginning of preseason? Bad timing. You've got about four more weeks. Better just let this one get buried and bump it after the Giants game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 yeah, people talking about potential when discussing 2nd year players, what's up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 you mean like how it showed up in Santana's 1st year in the NFL.....or Michael Irvin's...no wait.. Surely last year's Pro Bowl WR's all had phenomenal first years.. Let's see ... Roddy White, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall. 1st year stats- not that good. WR is the one position you do have to wait for it a little bit longer. Hopefully they will show some definite improvement this year. ok smarty pants, then why did Vinny Danny & Zorn say they would contribute RIGHT AWAY? go back and watch the post draft press conference, that was their reason for taking 3 pass catchers in the second round. Other WR's, even in their draft had GREAT first years, which shows it can happen, and I am sure that is what the FO thought of these two guys, but it obviously did not happen. As for Irvin and the like, it took them another year to get good, but they all had one bad year under their belt, that is one thing these guys do not even have yet, a "year" of playing time. I hold out more hope for Thomas than Kelly, since Thomas actually got credited with playing in 16 games last year, even if he was only on the field for a few plays, but Kelly was in 5 games, so he still needs to "stink" in 9 more before he can have his "breakout HOF" career year. Look, I want to see these guys succeed, but writing stories about their freakish athletic ability, great hands, nice footwork etc, DOES NOT WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. Enough spin, put up or shut up time, and preseason games don't count, if they did Jesse Lumsden would be the greatest RB in NFL history based on his TD run vs Baltimore a few years ago. I know this thread will take a while to get going, if it does at all, but I will wait until the regular season and bump this thread every week for people to post what they think either one of these guys have done that are any good. No more talk, no more BS, just show me why they are good or worth a 2nd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Off the top of my head, WRs who developed slow (feel free to add more): Rookie Year Stats Chad Ochocinco: 28 catches, 329 yards, 1 TD Steve Smith: 10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD Roddy White: 29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD TJ Houshmandzadeh: 21 catches, 228 yards, 0 TD Donald Drvier: 3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD Brandon Marshall: 20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD Vincent Jackson: 3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD I tried to go with all Pro Bowlers. As it has been said ad nasuem, WRs develop slow, just like D-linemen. FACT. Edit: There are exceptions to the rule. But that is why they are called exceptions. Hoping you hit and draft an exception is not a very smart strategy, just as throwing away promising young players because they did not meet initial expectations (depending on if you are realistic or not) is dumb as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Here's a fact. They've played one year.Here's another fact. Some players take longer than others to develop. Here's another fact. This message board already has such an exorbitant amount of cynics, pompous know-it-alls and chicken littles that I'm beginning to think it's an appropriate sample of the entire fanbase. :hysterical::hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Then why create this thread at the beginning of preseason? Bad timing. You've got about four more weeks. Better just let this one get buried and bump it after the Giants game. true it might take a while, but feel free to post anything good from last season as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamroller#99 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Remember, these two where suppose to be SO good, that they where going to help the team "right away" (quote from Danny, Zorn & Vinny's post draft press conference). I for one never thought that either of the guys would be scoring touchdowns week one last year. Even week 8 last year. After the draft last year it was discussed often that Thomas was very raw and Kelly had recurring problems with his knee. I think it actually is newsworthy that Malcolm is able to practice, its a step in the right direction having him on the field even. You play how you practice, and if you can't practice you can't play. Malcolm showed a few flashes against the ravens. We need some news like that. Why not take it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ok smarty pants, then why did Vinny Danny & Zorn say they would contribute RIGHT AWAY? go back and watch the post draft press conference, that was their reason for taking 3 pass catchers in the second round. Other WR's, even in their draft had GREAT first years, which shows it can happen, and I am sure that is what the FO thought of these two guys, but it obviously did not happen. . You got a link to that? I remember Vinny saying Devin was raw, and through what Zorn said and Vinny, and people realizing most WRs take a couple seasons, the expectations were they wouldn't contribute a lot their first year. We all wanted them to do more than they did, but both got injured which slowed their progression in camp. The receivers that did well who were also drafted in the 2nd round did so because they were healthy and injuries to other WRs forced them into starting roles early. However, the majority of the WRs taken in the 2nd round in '08 didn't contribute much their first season. It's not even the start of the 2nd season, the other posters are correct in that this thread is premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Somebody wanted to steal the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Off the top of my head, WRs who developed slow (feel free to add more):Rookie Year Stats Chad Ochocinco: 28 catches, 329 yards, 1 TD Steve Smith: 10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD Roddy White: 29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD TJ Houshmandzadeh: 21 catches, 228 yards, 0 TD Donald Drvier: 3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD Brandon Marshall: 20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD Vincent Jackson: 3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD I tried to go with all Pro Bowlers. As it has been said ad nasuem, WRs develop slow, just like D-linemen. FACT. Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery. All had good rookie seasons and helped their team right away, which is what these guys where suppose to do. Until Thomas or Kelly make the probowl, putting a list together like this is a waste of time. Again, the reason the team gave for drafting WR's was to get better last season, then when they didnt produce, the team comes out with the "WR take time to develop" spin and it appears like people have started to drink that koolaid. We need a legit #2 WR BEFORE the first game vs the Giants, or else you will see Moss get double covered, and the offense die like the second half of last year. ARE is not a #2, and you need a true receiving threat on the other side of the field so at the very least JC has some options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxinFish29 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ok smarty pants, then why did Vinny Danny & Zorn say they would contribute RIGHT AWAY? go back and watch the post draft press conference, that was their reason for taking 3 pass catchers in the second round. Other WR's, even in their draft had GREAT first years, which shows it can happen, and I am sure that is what the FO thought of these two guys, but it obviously did not happen. As for Irvin and the like, it took them another year to get good, but they all had one bad year under their belt, that is one thing these guys do not even have yet, a "year" of playing time. I hold out more hope for Thomas than Kelly, since Thomas actually got credited with playing in 16 games last year, even if he was only on the field for a few plays, but Kelly was in 5 games, so he still needs to "stink" in 9 more before he can have his "breakout HOF" career year. Look, I want to see these guys succeed, but writing stories about their freakish athletic ability, great hands, nice footwork etc, DOES NOT WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. Enough spin, put up or shut up time, and preseason games don't count, if they did Jesse Lumsden would be the greatest RB in NFL history based on his TD run vs Baltimore a few years ago. I know this thread will take a while to get going, if it does at all, but I will wait until the regular season and bump this thread every week for people to post what they think either one of these guys have done that are any good. No more talk, no more BS, just show me why they are good or worth a 2nd round pick. Well obviously...writing ANY story or article will not win football games. This board would be awesome if we made a thread like this for every player we have. Just list their stats so we can show you why their worth their pick. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 lol they didn't play last year we have nothing but 1 preseason game, and this current training camp to work with. last training camp all we heard was they were injured. lighten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Skins_&_'Stons Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YISEdBF9CI Just saying... I am sick of reading articles or threads about how great Kelly & Thomas WILL be, or how much POTENTIAL they have, or how they will contribute this year, or how hungry they are to prove themselves this year.It is time to put up or shut up, so I request a moratorium on Thomas & Kelly threads, and ask that all supporters post FACTS ONLY in this thread. that means, post their stats (when they start getting some). Now, not everything in football can be measured by stats, so feel free to posts video's, articles etc about the great block one of them makes to spring Portis for a nice run, or how either one of them commands enough respect from the defense that teams can no longer slide a safety over to help cover Moss. No more pre season or training camp hype, no media spin on how IF one of these guys can come along, how great it would make the offense, or how they MIGHT help let Moss get more open. This thread is for what these guys actually do on the field during the regular season to help this team win games because that is what they where brought in here to do, not help fill sports column pages with tales of potential. Remember, these two where suppose to be SO good, that they where going to help the team "right away" (quote from Danny, Zorn & Vinny's post draft press conference). I would love for one of these 2 guys to turn into a stud WR, but I don't want to hear "wait for it" anymore, if they where that good it would be showing up somehow by now. So please use this thread to show just exactly how these guys are contributing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBnotBlades Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ok smarty pants, then why did Vinny Danny & Zorn say they would contribute RIGHT AWAY? go back and watch the post draft press conference, that was their reason for taking 3 pass catchers in the second round. Other WR's, even in their draft had GREAT first years, which shows it can happen, and I am sure that is what the FO thought of these two guys, but it obviously did not happen. I seem to remember that Kelly was expected to contribute right away, but Devin Thomas was known as a bit of a project that wouldn't contribute much his first year. He was a JUCO transfer and a one year starter at MSU and extremely raw in his route running ability. He was mostly used on screens and shallow crosses in college to get the ball in his hands (with the occasional go route thrown in). Most would have been shocked if he contributed his first year. On the other hand, his potential is off the charts. You don't see 6'2" 220 lb receivers that can run a 4.4 forty everyday, it's like having TO with significantly more speed. If Thomas had more college experience or was a more polished route runner he would have likely been a high 1st rounder. Kelly, who was expected to contribute, looked great at the start of camp last year and then got injured. There's not much he can do about that. If he can stay healthy he'll have a hell of a career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuchip703 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ok smarty pants, then why did Vinny Danny & Zorn say they would contribute RIGHT AWAY? go back and watch the post draft press conference, that was their reason for taking 3 pass catchers in the second round. Other WR's, even in their draft had GREAT first years, which shows it can happen, and I am sure that is what the FO thought of these two guys, but it obviously did not happen. . Let's look at all the other WR's taken in the second round last year (there were none taken in 1st Donnie Avery- 53 rec -674-3 Jordy Nelson- 33-366-2 James Hardy- 9-87-2 Eddie Royal - 91-980-5 Jerome Simpson- 1-2-0 (watch out) DeSean Jackson 62-912-2 Limas Sweed - 6-64-0 Dexter Jackson 0-0-0 he did play in 7 games. So, if you include Thomas and Kelly, that's one guy who had a "great" year in a very pass happy offense. two guys that had good years and the rest with pretty much the same type of years or worse than Thomas or Kelly. Im not trying to be a "smartypants", just stating the FACTS that you wanted. Does any front office come on after a draft and say...."oh we hope he can contribute in about 4 years or so....so we took him in the second round." No. To bring that up is pretty weak. We all hoped that they would contribute right away...Things just didn't work out. Hopefully they will follow the curve of some of the greats in the game today...and start to contribute like a lot of us hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 kelly was probably ready to go last year, his knee was just messed up. thomas, not so much. but im somewhat confident in these guys, as theyve shown legit flashes of being beast. thomas' reverse last year was the best play of the whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I think we should bump this thread every week but not to point out their flaws but rather to point out improvements. Then again this is extremeskins.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Let's look at all the other WR's taken in the second round last year (there were none taken in 1stDonnie Avery- 53 rec -674-3 Jordy Nelson- 33-366-2 James Hardy- 9-87-2 Eddie Royal - 91-980-5 Jerome Simpson- 1-2-0 (watch out) DeSean Jackson 62-912-2 Limas Sweed - 6-64-0 Dexter Jackson 0-0-0 he did play in 7 games. So, if you include Thomas and Kelly, that's one guy who had a "great" year in a very pass happy offense. two guys that had good years and the rest with pretty much the same type of years or worse than Thomas or Kelly. Im not trying to be a "smartypants", just stating the FACTS that you wanted. Does any front office come on after a draft and say...."oh we hope he can contribute in about 4 years or so....so we took him in the second round." No. To bring that up is pretty weak. We all hoped that they would contribute right away...Things just didn't work out. Hopefully they will follow the curve of some of the greats in the game today...and start to contribute like a lot of us hope to be fair, jackson and royal had extremely good rookie seasons. avery came on strong at the end, and nelson was ok. everyone else was pretty much nothing. WR do take some time to develop for sure, its just disheartening when one of the best WR to come out of the draft so far is on a division rival (jackson). so while some guys do take time, its not always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 kelly was probably ready to go last year, his knee was just messed up. thomas, not so much.but im somewhat confident in these guys, as theyve shown legit flashes of being beast. thomas' reverse last year was the best play of the whole season. 23 posts and 1 fact so far. Anyone else see why I am tired of hearing about the hype? it is over a 20:1 ratio for hype over performance. heck, if one of these guys actually catches a TD, I think there might be a push to retire their number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Hopefully Kelly isn't the next Taylor Jacobs. All we hear are great things. Then he breaks a nail and is out for the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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