Kelly & Thomas: Show Me-the fact threadUPDATE w/STATS

[gortiz]

Here's another fact. This message board already has such an exorbitant amount of cynics, pompous know-it-alls and chicken littles that I'm beginning to think it's an appropriate sample of the entire fanbase.

I'll save you the suspense ...

IT IS

[Mooka]

Fact, Malcolm Kelly is HUGE.

At the combine he was listed at 6'4" and 218. He's listed anywhere from 220 - 225 now.

That's as big as Marques Colston. That's bigger then Adrian Wilson.

Here's him towering over Antwan.

[artmonkforHOF]

Fact, Malcolm Kelly is HUGE.

At the combine he was listed at 6'4" and 218. He's listed anywhere from 220 - 225 now.

That's as big as Marques Colston. That's bigger then Adrian Wilson.

Here's him towering over Antwan.

FACT: tall WR who do not get on the field can not help you win football games. Mike Williams (USC 05 draft) was 6'5" 230 lbs., and he is no longer in football. Height and weight alone do not make a good NFL WR.

Now 50 posts, 1 fact of Thomas' great reverse. I will credit Thomas with being fast, being able to make moves in space, which is great for a RB, but as a WR can he a) get open run good routes c) make catches while being covered & d) help block in the running game.

[RedskinsTime]

What is the point of this thread

[Old Bay]

Now 50 posts, 1 fact of Thomas' great reverse. I will credit Thomas with being fast, being able to make moves in space, which is great for a RB, but as a WR can he a) get open run good routes c) make catches while being covered & d) help block in the running game.

That sounds like 'potential' talk to me.

[Mooka]

FACT: tall WR who do not get on the field can not help you win football games. Mike Williams (USC 05 draft) was 6'5" 230 lbs., and he is no longer in football. Height and weight alone do not make a good NFL WR.

And Mike Williams was a miserable pro football player. He didn't work in the off-season, showed up out of shape and out of touch. He couldn't crack the Lions active roster for peets sake.

Kelly at least works hard in the off-season and practices well. Sadly, Mike Williams has accomplished much more then both Malcolm and Devin. :doh:

Now 50 posts, 1 fact of Thomas' great reverse. I will credit Thomas with being fast, being able to make moves in space, which is great for a RB, but as a WR can he a) get open run good routes c) make catches while being covered & d) help block in the running game.

Yea well, Kelly hardly saw the field last season. He was only on the field for a few games. Devin, was mostly invisible.

Your thread is premature for NFL accomplishments.

[paloffs]

Fact: This thread was created 26 days before the Redskin's season opener.

Opinion: Too early... too early.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Facts -

- Jackson, Royal, and Avery were thrust into starting roles because of injuries and suspensions (Curtis in Philly, Marshall in Denver, etc)

- The below all had "Poor" first years as a 2nd or 3rd round draft choice:

Player Receptions Yards TDs

Jordy Nelson 33 366 2

James Hardy 9 87 2

Jerome Simpson 1 2 0

Limas Sweed 6 64 0

Dexter Jackson 0 0 0

Earl Bennett 0 0 0

Early Doucet 14 90 0

Harry Douglas 23 320 1

Mario Manningham 4 26 0

Andre Caldwell 11 78 0

Fact: Thread fails

lol, so when youre forced into a starting role, thats why you succeed? thats maybe the dumbest thing ive ever heard.

"he was only productive because he had to start!" LOL

[ALLWORLD]

Here's a fact. They've played one year.

Here's another fact. Some players take longer than others to develop.

Here's another fact. This message board already has such an exorbitant amount of cynics, pompous know-it-alls and chicken littles that I'm beginning to think it's an appropriate sample of the entire fanbase.

Which consistently applies to anyone the Skins get... It will always "take some time"...

[Justsomeguy]

yeah, people talking about potential when discussing 2nd year players, what's up with that?

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[superozman]

lol, so when youre forced into a starting role, thats why you succeed? thats maybe the dumbest thing ive ever heard.

"he was only productive because he had to start!" LOL

Samsonite, you were WAY off. They were ABLE to be productive because they were ON THE FIELD MORE. It all goes back to what’s been said. Can’t be productive from the sideline. So those 3 were able to get onto the field more, forced into a starting role, and since they were on the field more – you now have stats.

Everyone on Extreme Skins then says stuff like “We should have drafted Jackson or Royal” because they see numbers. What they don’t see is better QB’s throwing their way or the fact at the time they were the teams #2 reciever for portions of the year. In Washington they had a lot of 2 wide out sets, and when their was a 3rd wide out set, it was Thrash, the Vet.

[ALLWORLD]

Fact, Malcolm Kelly is HUGE.

At the combine he was listed at 6'4" and 218. He's listed anywhere from 220 - 225 now.

That's as big as Marques Colston. That's bigger then Adrian Wilson.

Here's him towering over Antwan.

who DOESNT tower of ARE?? :hysterical:

[ALLWORLD]

What they don’t see is better QB’s throwing their way or the fact at the time they were the teams #2 reciever for portions of the year. In Washington they had a lot of 2 wide out sets, and when their was a 3rd wide out set, it was Thrash, the Vet.

That's pretty much it, which is also another reason a lot of fans are irritated with the lack of playing time our guys get. Rather it's injuries, playbook, or whatever they are just excuses and UNTIL they screw up ON THE FIELD it will continue to annoy a lot of fans.

Give them a chance to fail instead of being so "cautious".. Like not just taking deep shots in preseason, what's it going to hurt?

[superozman]

Fact: Malcomb Kelly has caught almost everything thrown his way in Training Camp.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Samsonite, you were WAY off. They were ABLE to be productive because they were ON THE FIELD MORE. It all goes back to what’s been said. Can’t be productive from the sideline. So those 3 were able to get onto the field more, forced into a starting role, and since they were on the field more – you now have stats.

Everyone on Extreme Skins then says stuff like “We should have drafted Jackson or Royal” because they see numbers. What they don’t see is better QB’s throwing their way or the fact at the time they were the teams #2 reciever for portions of the year. In Washington they had a lot of 2 wide out sets, and when their was a 3rd wide out set, it was Thrash, the Vet.

i definitely see better QBs (lol) throwing to them, but just to say that they succeeded cause they got more reps is definitely not true. that means if thomas had started every game like jackson he'd have put up 900 yards or something close. i disagree because last year it was clear he wasnt up to game speed, he failed the conditioning test in TC, and he had trouble with the playbook. royal and jackson were clearly ahead of the curve, and it showed in the regular season.

and they STAYED on the field because they produced. if thomas had produced anything like those two in his short time period you better believe he would have played more. however, he didnt, and therefore he didnt play.

now give me that extra pair of gloves. were in the rockies!?!

[Santana_89]

Here's a novel concept..let's let the season play out BEFORE we call anybody a bust:)

[TheItalianStallion]

i definitely see better QBs (lol) throwing to them, but just to say that they succeeded cause they got more reps is definitely not true. that means if thomas had started every game like jackson he'd have put up 900 yards or something close. i disagree because last year it was clear he wasnt up to game speed, he failed the conditioning test in TC, and he had trouble with the playbook. royal and jackson were clearly ahead of the curve, and it showed in the regular season.

and they STAYED on the field because they produced. if thomas had produced anything like those two in his short time period you better believe he would have played more. however, he didnt, and therefore he didnt play.

True about Thomas, but from what I've heard, Kelly was performing well in camp, and likely would've been an immediate contributor had it not been for his injuries. Maybe not as much as Royal or Jackson, but who knows.

[superozman]

i definitely see better QBs (lol) throwing to them, but just to say that they succeeded cause they got more reps is definitely not true. that means if thomas had started every game like jackson he'd have put up 900 yards or something close. i disagree because last year it was clear he wasnt up to game speed, he failed the conditioning test in TC, and he had trouble with the playbook. royal and jackson were clearly ahead of the curve, and it showed in the regular season.

and they STAYED on the field because they produced. if thomas had produced anything like those two in his short time period you better believe he would have played more. however, he didnt, and therefore he didnt play.

now give me that extra pair of gloves. were in the rockies!?!

Yea, I do agree – the fact of the matter is, they got a rare opportunity, and ALL 3 of them had success. And your right, if Thomas was Royal, and failed those 2 games, he wouldn’t have seen the field much after that until he got a better feel, but this goes back to the injury bug they had last year. Both were behind the curve because of injuries, and your afformentioned conditioning issues.

I have not had an extra pair of gloves this whole time! But I have worms! So quit bugging me Swim, or Swammi, or Slippy, or Slappy, or Swenson, or Swanson or whatever your name is.

[Mooka]

who DOESNT tower of ARE?? :hysterical:

Easy.

[Xero21]

Off the top of my head, WRs who developed slow (feel free to add more):

Rookie Year Stats

Chad Ochocinco: 28 catches, 329 yards, 1 TD

Steve Smith: 10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD

Roddy White: 29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD

TJ Houshmandzadeh: 21 catches, 228 yards, 0 TD

Donald Drvier: 3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD

Brandon Marshall: 20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD

Vincent Jackson: 3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD

I tried to go with all Pro Bowlers. As it has been said ad nasuem, WRs develop slow, just like D-linemen. FACT.

Edit: There are exceptions to the rule. But that is why they are called exceptions. Hoping you hit and draft an exception is not a very smart strategy, just as throwing away promising young players because they did not meet initial expectations (depending on if you are realistic or not) is dumb as well.

Wow, Donald Driver is such a bust.

[Braxford]

The NFL does not work like Madden, you can't just draft a player and play him some and he becomes a 99 overall player. Development takes time for most players plus you have to look at the players around them. Eddie Royal, had Cutler throwing him the ball. DeSean Jackson had Donovan McNabb. The fact is that Thomas and Kelly both have the physical tools to peform very well at the NFL level. Playing time, injuries and dedication are the real variables ( as well as QB play).

[TRUBLUFAN]

I am sick of reading articles or threads about how great Kelly & Thomas WILL be, or how much POTENTIAL they have, or how they will contribute this year, or how hungry they are to prove themselves this year.

It is time to put up or shut up, so I request a moratorium on Thomas & Kelly threads, and ask that all supporters post FACTS ONLY in this thread.

that means, post their stats (when they start getting some). Now, not everything in football can be measured by stats, so feel free to posts video's, articles etc about the great block one of them makes to spring Portis for a nice run, or how either one of them commands enough respect from the defense that teams can no longer slide a safety over to help cover Moss.

No more pre season or training camp hype, no media spin on how IF one of these guys can come along, how great it would make the offense, or how they MIGHT help let Moss get more open.

This thread is for what these guys actually do on the field during the regular season to help this team win games because that is what they where brought in here to do, not help fill sports column pages with tales of potential. Remember, these two where suppose to be SO good, that they where going to help the team "right away" (quote from Danny, Zorn & Vinny's post draft press conference).

I would love for one of these 2 guys to turn into a stud WR, but I don't want to hear "wait for it" anymore, if they where that good it would be showing up somehow by now. So please use this thread to show just exactly how these guys are contributing.

Boy is your clock fast! This is essentially thier 1st full season in a new offense and the NFL. I don't think that its put up or shut up time just yet....

I know your as frustrated as I am as a fan but, the blame lies up top not with these guys. Just imagine how high-powered this offense would be if after Joe Gibbs' departure Daniel Snyder did the most sensible thing, which would have been to promote Greg Williams or Al Saunders to head coach. Al Saunders' offense is complex, but it is more than proven in this league as one of the most efficient and high scoring offenses league wide. This would be year 4 in that system and combined with our D! WOW

Ohhhhhhh. What could have been...

HAIL

[RedskinDan0557]

Here's another fact. This message board already has such an exorbitant amount of cynics, pompous know-it-alls and chicken littles that I'm beginning to think it's an appropriate sample of the entire fanbase.

Took the words right out of my mouth. One would think that with so many experts posting here that the NFL laid off all the scouts and coaches of every team.

[PhiAlpha]

I'm more worried about our offensive line and Campbell. Put one of these guys in New England or Indy. Probably studs.

[B.Rob]

My Spidey-Senses told me not to open this thread....I should have listened. It is not wrong to hold high hopes for someone. Any decent teacher will tell you that High Expectations leads to Higher Achievement, so let the coaches, fans, and players have high expectations of these guys.

Also every article acknowledges that they have yet to prove anything. If they start sucking it up in games or sit out multiple games for injuries, bash away. Until then give it a rest. It is not wrong to hold high hopes for someone.