Should Skins' release Todd Collins?

[Thinking Skins]

Colt Brennan isn't ready to face first team NFL defenses.

...

Brennan in the view of most people I have read that see both at practice say has little chance of unseating Collins in 2009.

Brennan is a bit like Tony Romo sits to pee was 3-4 years ago. He doesn't have ideal size, but has good mobility and can make some plays on the run. He is better now at playing sandlot ball than in a disciplined attack.

Thats the wording I've been looking to describe Brennan. He seems better suited (right now) to play sandlot ball than actually execute an offense.

Giving Brennan credit for Year 1 in 2008 that to me says if the team keeps the current system and Zorn remains the coach that perhaps Brennan would be ready in late 2010 or 2011 to play at this level.

And that's assuming that Jason Campbell washes out.

If Campbell blossoms and gets a long-term contract Brennan will be buried on the bench for most of the next 2-3 seasons until he is a free agent.

Yeah, wouldn't it be interesting if this turns out to be similar to a Gus Ferotte/Trent Green or a Drew Brees/Philip Rivers (dare I mention a Drew Bledsoe/Tom Brady) type situation. I think you probably said it best with the Drew Bledsoe/Tony Romo sits to pee thing in Dallas though.

[SirClintonPortis]

SCP- who is this Flynn you speak of and who does he play for now? I have heard his name mentioned lots of times and would like to see him play. Do you think he would be better than anyone we currently have?

He's Aaron Rodgers' backup, had a sharp performance last week. He actually beat out Brohm, the Packers' second-round pick last year, last year, which tells me that he actually may have some ability. The commentators in the Packer game said that he has improved his mechanics this year(no more overstriding or a too high front shoulder), so his 'arm strength', which was considered a weakness of his, has improved. He has a little mobility to help him out as well. I think he can compete with Collins better than Colt.

[modazfuk]

"He is better now at playing sandlot ball than in a disciplined attack"

There are many things to describe Zorn's offense, but "attack" certainly is not something that comes to mind. It must be frustrating as hell [for Campbell too] to be expected to run a plodding offense in a disciplined manner.

[ironman]

are some people blind. collins thru to all the recievers against ravins and he looked sharp and has led a team to the playoffs 1 long pass from camball to moss in 3 years . when collins came in for camball 2 years ago it was like night and day so u blind redskins fans get glasses

[Hooper]

Based on Jim Zorn's interview today on 980 there is 0% chance of this happening. espn980.com It's probably in the audio vault if you want to listen for yourself.

I've been saying it for a while.

There is a better chance of Collins beating out JC than Colt or Chase beating out Collins.

Once Collins got the offense down, Zorn started to see all the things Saunders and eventually Gibbs and Williams did.

He will not hesitate to make a switch to the old man this year. Zorn just wants to win -- it doesn't matter who the qb is. Because if the Skins don't win, it's Mike Shanahan time.

[modazfuk]

If the dude with butter fingers hangs on to that gimme from Collins, nobody would be pumping him up to be starter.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

People seem to forget the leverage a young 2nd string QB with perceived talent can reap in the NFL trade market. Assuming all things are equal, hell, lets even assume Collins is a notch or two better than Colt, should we all not take pause for a moment and ponder these ghosts of the past:

- Scott Mitchell

- Rob Johnson

- Matt Cassell

Let us also not forget the retardation of Chase Daniels' development if Collins remains on the roster, not to mention his vulnerability to the free agent market if they tab him for the practice squad.

Bottom line is, Colt & Chase are value assets with growth potential, like a cheap mutual fund. Collins is a depreciating asset, like a relaible old car with 200k miles. He may still get you from A to B, but his value will NEVER increase from this very moment.

Cut him.

[Gregpeck99]

You have it all wrong ... I like TC, CB and CD in that order. Campbell the "Lame Duck" is the one to go.

[wvtbred]

He also was statistically the best QB in our most recent preseason game, and has done nothing to lose the job to Brennan yet. And you ALWAYS have to have 1 veteran backup.

He is also statistically the best QB on the team in what counts, win percentage.

[jayneal7]

you have it all wrong ... I like tc, cb and cd in that order. Campbell the "lame duck" is the one to go.

+1

[Thinking Skins]

http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm

We have almost $5 in cap room. If we release Collins this year, with no cap in place as of yet for next year, we take his entire cap hit this year.

Unless I'm reading their spreadsheet wrong, Collins is making $2.5 million this year, and it would cost us $2.5 million to cut him. That's a net gain of 0. So releasing Collins would do nothing financially to improve our O-line.

I've been wondering what our cap situation was. So we do have the money to bring in a vet in the instance that somebody gets hurt. Thats good to know.

People seem to forget the leverage a young 2nd string QB with perceived talent can reap in the NFL trade market. Assuming all things are equal, hell, lets even assume Collins is a notch or two better than Colt, should we all not take pause for a moment and ponder these ghosts of the past:

- Scott Mitchell

- Rob Johnson

- Matt Cassell

Let us also not forget the retardation of Chase Daniels' development if Collins remains on the roster, not to mention his vulnerability to the free agent market if they tab him for the practice squad.

Bottom line is, Colt & Chase are value assets with growth potential, like a cheap mutual fund. Collins is a depreciating asset, like a relaible old car with 200k miles. He may still get you from A to B, but his value will NEVER increase from this very moment.

Cut him.

Colt and Chase are not nearly as valuable as say the backups in GB or the guys you mentioned at their peaks (or dude in ATL who went to Houston? Schaub?)

Lets remember that Chase is an UDFA. I could see if he was a hot commodity coming into camp. But if we cut him, there probably won't be many teams eager to get him. He'd probably become vulnerable if teams suffer injuries, but even then, I'd think they'd turn to veterans before an UDFA.

If you're talking about keeping them to be developed in the instance of an injury to Cambell, or to mentor like Bledsoe did to Romo sits to pee, then thats a heck of a risk to be taking, especially when we've got a veteran backup who's proven in real time that he can get it done under fire.

[Mickalino]

Did Garcia ever get picked up or is he on the retired list? Sorry for the sidetrack but thats the only way I see Collins going anywhere we replace a vet with a vet, its a little late now though and like was mentioned the cap hit we would take makes its impossible.

Garcia is a Raider

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

I've been wondering what our cap situation was. So we do have the money to bring in a vet in the instance that somebody gets hurt. Thats good to know.

Colt and Chase are not nearly as valuable as say the backups in GB or the guys you mentioned at their peaks (or dude in ATL who went to Houston? Schaub?) .

Of course they aren't (yet)............b/c neither has yet to play a snap in this league. Remember for a moment, how fleeting perception is in this league. ONE good game from /colt off the bench, and he'll be "a real up and comer." same goes for Chase. Memories come with short term leases in this game, and nobody ever seems to learn from their mistakes (Scott Mitchell, Rob Johnson, et al).

[Thinking Skins]

Of course they aren't (yet)............b/c neither has yet to play a snap in this league. Remember for a moment, how fleeting perception is in this league. ONE good game from /colt off the bench, and he'll be "a real up and comer." same goes for Chase. Memories come with short term leases in this game, and nobody ever seems to learn from their mistakes (Scott Mitchell, Rob Johnson, et al).

Yeah, but you're assuming that they'll be that good based on teh one good game. Colt may have shown you stuff in preseason last year, but what has Chase shown you? And are you really willing to let what Colt did in preseason a year ago be enough to get him into a game above a proven vet?

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

Yeah, but you're assuming that they'll be that good based on teh one good game. Colt may have shown you stuff in preseason last year, but what has Chase shown you? And are you really willing to let what Colt did in preseason a year ago be enough to get him into a game above a proven vet?

yes, if for nothing else than the fact that you have to take chances in this league to get ahead.

Meanwhile, we conservatively hold on to veterans that are provem "Mediocre's" in Randle El, Cartwright, Betts, Collins et al.

You never know what Colt might bring to this team, and you never know if Collins didn't catch lightening in a bottle in 2007 after ST passed.

[MustangSteve]

You just earned yourself a spot in the thread, the dumbest thing you heard a fan say.

[Thinking Skins]

yes, if for nothing else than the fact that you have to take chances in this league to get ahead.

Meanwhile, we conservatively hold on to veterans that are provem "Mediocre's" in Randle El, Cartwright, Betts, Collins et al.

You never know what Colt might bring to this team, and you never know if Collins didn't catch lightening in a bottle in 2007 after ST passed.

You're saying that Collins may have caught lightning in a bottle, but Colt hasn't even gotten that. You want us to take a risk on an unproven Colt instead of at least going with a guy with veteran experience in REAL games?

Then you talk about sticking to mediocre players? Its called competition. You keep the best players. Why would we cut ARE? Who's gonna take his place? Thrash? Lloyd? What about Rock? We gonna bring back Brian Mitchell? Chad Morton? I know - give it to an unproven rookie like Mason who fumbled in his opportunities last year. Take the risk that the younger player who lost to the better player in the preseason will actually get better?

Do you realize how idiotic that sounds. Let me apologize cause I don't want to seem like I'm calling you an idiot, but thats just not logical. We're supposed to keep the best players on the team. If a player beats somebody out, then cool. But we shouldn't just give up roster spots to guys because they're young. Thats no better than Gibbs's philosophy of giving roster spots to guys because they're old.

[GhostofSparta]

I've been wondering what our cap situation was. So we do have the money to bring in a vet in the instance that somebody gets hurt. Thats good to know.

I've had that site bookmarked for over a year. It drove me crazy all summer because they didn't update it from April 27-August 6.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

You're saying that Collins may have caught lightning in a bottle, but Colt hasn't even gotten that. You want us to take a risk on an unproven Colt instead of at least going with a guy with veteran experience in REAL games?

Then you talk about sticking to mediocre players? Its called competition. You keep the best players. Why would we cut ARE? Who's gonna take his place? Thrash? Lloyd? What about Rock? We gonna bring back Brian Mitchell? Chad Morton? I know - give it to an unproven rookie like Mason who fumbled in his opportunities last year. Take the risk that the younger player who lost to the better player in the preseason will actually get better?

Do you realize how idiotic that sounds. Let me apologize cause I don't want to seem like I'm calling you an idiot, but thats just not logical. We're supposed to keep the best players on the team. If a player beats somebody out, then cool. But we shouldn't just give up roster spots to guys because they're young. Thats no better than Gibbs's philosophy of giving roster spots to guys because they're old.

- Lightnening in a bottle was the passing of ST. i.e., the ENTIRE team playing above it's normal capabilities. duh.

- You're suggesting guys who are retired and out of the league as suitable replacements, yet my post was idiotic. good lord.........what do we know about ARE? that he will dance from side to side and call fair catch A LOT. genius move keeping him in there. I'd have Hall, Moss, and maybe Tryon split the punt returning duties. ARE's pass catching contributions are completely irrelevant to this team.

- Like it or not, and don't blame me here; but that's how sports works. If you're not getting any better with the guys you have, and you weren't that good to begin with, then you make changes and go with youth. Please reference every single other mediocre aging team in the history of sports.

No offense, but your entire post WAS idiotic, just sayin.....

[Hooper]

I'm pretty sure Colt started this thread after another bad practice.

I kid, I kid.

[alwaysaskin]

The Cult of Colt at it again, why cut Collins? if Campbell goes down- and given Rabach and Heyer he probably will do you want Colt or Chase starting? 3-13 here we come if that happens! For example, Heyer or as I will now refer to him: the lesser of three evils, should be pushed by someone in camp. Right now Colt is not close to beating Todd out and if Campbell goes down, I'd feel a whole hell of a lot better seeing Collins jogging onto the field than Colt or Chase

[Thinking Skins]

- Lightnening in a bottle was the passing of ST. i.e., the ENTIRE team playing above it's normal capabilities. duh.

So I'll say again. You're more willing to chance Collins being lightning in a bottle, but Colt hasn't even shown that. What are you basing this "Colt is the future" type mentality on? Last year's preseason. I mean, what Collins did 2 years ago could have been all inspired by #21's death. In fact, I was arguing just that 2 years ago. But guess what, it might not have been. And the truth is he did what he did. Its on video. We've got the stats to back it up. And we've got him on the roster right now.

Now what you're saying to do is to cut him for a player that hasn't beat him out and probably won't beat him out - a guy who's shown nothing in a real NFL game because you think he could become a rising star. But guess what, there's a good chance that he won't. Then what? Do we just say "eff it we took a chance"?

- You're suggesting guys who are retired and out of the league as suitable replacements, yet my post was idiotic. good lord.........what do we know about ARE? that he will dance from side to side and call fair catch A LOT. genius move keeping him in there. I'd have Hall, Moss, and maybe Tryon split the punt returning duties. ARE's pass catching contributions are completely irrelevant to this team.

I'm pointing out the lack of logic in your post. You want us to cut all these guys, but these are the guys who are WINNING the battles in training camp. ARE is the #2 WR on the team right now. Last year, I would have loved for Kelly or Thomas to beat him out, but they didn't. And he quietly had one of his most productive seasons as a WR last year. But I guess you just want to cut him for the sake of getting younger. And Moss, Hall and Tyron can't be the number 2 WR (at least not if Moss is the #1 WR).

If ARE, Rock, Betts, Collins loses the battle in camp and gets cut, then hey, thats the way the bow breaks. But if they win the battle to a point where its not even close (like most of them did last year and like Collins is doing this year) and we still cut them, then its just a bad move by the front office.

- Like it or not, and don't blame me here; but that's how sports works. If you're not getting any better with the guys you have, and you weren't that good to begin with, then you make changes and go with youth. Please reference every single other mediocre aging team in the history of sports.

Nah the way I remember sports working is players COMPETING for roster spots. If you think that the job always goes to the rookie, then why are other teams keeping veterans then? Why do you think we signed D.J.Hackett? I'm not inside Zorn's head, but I'd guess its so that we can have somebody dependable at the number 5 WR in case one of the rookies doesn't work out.

But its cool that you don't think this way. I'm confident enough in our front office to know that they don't think like you.

[SoCalSkins]

That is the way JC has been coddled the past 4 years. So why not continue? By releasing QB's who have proven to be better, JC climbs the depth chart without competition and can maintain his position without being challenged, which is exactly what he wants. Let's give the baby his bottle. We have already wasted 3 years on the guy, what's another in the grand scheme of the disaster that has been his career so far.

[Newera]

Collins is still the best quarterback on the team until proven otherwise.

[Madison Redskin]

That is the way JC has been coddled the past 4 years. So why not continue? By releasing QB's who have proven to be better, JC climbs the depth chart without competition and can maintain his position without being challenged, which is exactly what he wants. Let's give the baby his bottle. We have already wasted 3 years on the guy, what's another in the grand scheme of the disaster that has been his career so far.

The team tried to trade for Jay Cutler. The team tried to trade up to draft Sanchez. But, yeah, Jason Campbell has been coddled. There's a conspiracy to keep Brennan and Daniels from lighting up the league.