WTOP: 19yr old killed by his own pit bulls

[Heisenberg]

That's really irrelevant to the problem

It's far more relevant than your views of Muslims or most anything else you've contributed to this thread.

At least if I'm arguing with GoSkins I know that he has some experiences he's basing his opinion off of - you've made at least 2-3 claims that I've easily proven false with a quick google search and yet you don't provide any evidence on what qualifies you to make your claims.

[Mickalino]

It's far more relevant than your views of Muslims or most anything else you've contributed to this thread.

At least if I'm arguing with GoSkins I know that he has some experiences he's basing his opinion off of - you've made at least 2-3 claims that I've easily proven false with a quick google search and yet you don't provide any evidence on what qualifies you to make your claims.

Then explain how it's relevant. Just because there's more good dogs than bad ones, it doesn't negate or solve the huge dilemna.

[Stricknn]

http://www.loudouni.com/news/2009-08-11/leesburg-police-investigating-apparent-fatal-dog-attack

[Heisenberg]

Then explain how it's relevant. Just because there's more good dogs than bad ones, it doesn't negate or solve the huge dilemna.

Explain how this is some huge dilemma?

From that statistics I've found - Pit Bulls are responsible for approximately 2.3 deaths per year.

Obviously, with this HUGE dilemma we have got to ban and execute every last one of these dogs NOW!!!

[Mickalino]

Explain how this is some huge dilemma?

From that statistics I've found - Pit Bulls are responsible for approximately 2.3 deaths per year.

Obviously, with this HUGE dilemma we have got to ban and execute every last one of these dogs NOW!!!

While accusing me of not contributing to the thread, you're not helping, when you stand there and act like I want to ban and execute every pit bull - which is nowhere near what I ever said.

[Heisenberg]

While accusing me of not contributing to the thread, you're not helping, when you stand there and act like I want to ban and execute every pit bull - which is nowhere near what I ever said.

The overexaggerating was to make a point.

Once you explain how an average of 2.5 deaths per year is a "huge dilemma" then I will try to figure out what major steps can be taken to solve this problem. Until then, I will contend that 99% of dogs that attack with intent to harm have irresponsible owners and/or extremely bad breeding lines.

[Enter Apotheosis]

While accusing me of not contributing to the thread, you're not helping, when you stand there and act like I want to ban and execute every pit bull - which is nowhere near what I ever said.

What in the hell are you arguing, then? All you've made is drive-by comments without once making a solid case for whatever it is that you actually believe.

[GoSkins561]

Again, the fault was directly or indirectly with the humans.

I don't agree with this, otherwise experts wouldn't comment on dogs being alpha females, males etc. Some dogs are always going to think they are the dominant dog and will usually try to show thier dominance over another dog in one way or another. These traits have nothing to do with the owner and are very hard to break.

[Drop]

That's idiotic. How about people using the park share it, that means don't threaten or attack other people minding their own business.

Is it too much to ask not to have a dog charge at you?

Should they be OK with me charging at them snarling.

Nope it's certainly not too much to ask. But if it happens frequently enough, do something else. Instead of whinning about sharing the park, just take yourself out of the situation so that you don't have to worry about ANY dogs. Surely the park isn't the only place you can jog. Dog owners have just as much right to the park as you. And they have an animal with them that instictively gets aggressive around unknowns. Newsflash, you're an unknown to these animals. And who knows, maybe there's something about you that dogs just don't like, LOL. I mean if you're drawing TONS of dogs snarling at you when you're jogging, you're either running with T-Bones in your shorts, or there's something about you that doesn't sit well with them. Just sayin'.

I'm running and an animal runs toward me snarling. I should ignore it and hope it doesn't attack? Why should I have to take evasive action because someone doesn't control their dog. Should I only be offended when the dog actually draws blood?

Ignore it? No, not completely. But freaking out over it obviously does a whole lot of good doesn't it? You can be conscious of what's going on around you without throwing a hissy fit. Are these dogs running up to you on leashes? Are they even getting close enough to bite you before you start wigging out at the dog and the owner? Come on, put the situation in persepective.

I shouldn't go into a park because dog owners can't control their animals? No, me like other runners have had enough and many now carry mace or other ways to protect themselves from irresponsible dog owners and their animals.

Again, if you don't want to have to carry mace of be fearful for your safety on a jog....jog somewhere else. Simple as that. Otherwise, man up and don't be so nancyfied everytime a dog comes around. But to insist on using the park, only to whine about what you have to up with when you use it, is absurd and bullheaded.

Geez, what is it people don't get? Dogs are ANIMALS with instincts that tie back to their ancestors prior to the domestication of canines.

[Heisenberg]

I don't agree with this, otherwise experts wouldn't comment on dogs being alpha females, males etc. Some dogs are always going to think they are the dominant dog and will usually try to show thier dominance over another dog in one way or another. These traits have nothing to do with the owner and are very hard to break.

Many terrier breeds have difficulty getting along with other dogs.

There's a simple solution for this problem - keep your dog on a leash and don't let them run freely with other dogs.

Just because they don't get along with other dogs (which many bull terriers do anyway) doesn't mean they can't be a great family dog. Dog aggression and people aggression is totally different and is hardly a reason to ban the breed.

It's also the owner's responsibility to ensure that he/she is the "alpha" to the dog(s) in the household - otherwise you are going to have problems regardless of the breed.

[NeckBone]

I don't have the fight in me today to go in depth, but I have been breeding 100% American Pit Bull Terriers for over 10 yrs.

First they are not for the novice dog owner. They are very powerful, engineered animals. Gnereation after generation bred for "specific" reasons. However, in recent years the poor genetic traits have become desirable in some circles. Simply pick up a book or do an internet search into the history of these dogs. Any dog that was to show human aggression was IMMEDIATELY put down. No second thoughts.

Now couple years of line breeding with inadequate or misguided ownership and you get the horrow stories. I stand by this breed with proper training and the utmost ownership.

I am a young white male living in a very affluent part of this country. I have seen the gawks, whispers, watching people walk to the other side of the road when I come down the street with my two "Pit Bulls". The thing is they are the sweetest things you will ever come across. Licks for days. Love children and in general people. They sleep in bed with us. When my daughter was afraid to go to sleep at night we put Neko my male to snuggle with her.

This did not happen overnight though. Hours and hours of training went into acheiving the dogs we have now. I have them trained on snaps and whistles. I am to the point now where their cages are folded up and in a closet. Its been 7 years now I have had these two and I can't imagine life without them.

I am sorry for the loss of life here in this story. But something has gone wrong along the way. I do not wish to point fingers, however, whether ownership or faulty breeding. Breaking up a dogfight is not an excuse either. I have broken up many a pit fight. Its not fun and always scary. But like I stated earlier-if human aggression is shown, the dog is of poor standard. Example: The year is '99, and I am in college in North Carolina. Dog fighting is prevelant even is such a well-to-do area. My roommates had rescued our first pit after all the hurricanes and had just gotten a black brindle female pit. There was a "well known" gentleman at the end of our neighborhood (four blocks from campus) who had an identical black brindle male pit. Now, said male was game bread-I will call him "Tom" for now, roughly 85lbs and while I never attended any of his "matches" there was video on him making the rounds in our circles. "Tom" was so good at what he did that the two litters he sired in our neighborhood, every single last one of the 18 puppies was stolen. My theories were that it was an inside job that smelled of dog fighting rings. Bare with me b/c I want to give you the full experience of this Sunday morning. We had been up all night partying but you we were young so waking up early wasn't out of the question. My girlfriend woke before I at around 8:30am, and we lived in the front room right next to the door opening into the front yard. She got up to let the puppy out and I could hear her through the window talking to our neighbor directly across the street who was letting out his three month old adopted half-lab/half-mutt runt. They couldn't have been conversating for more the 20 secs when I hear her say, "There's "Tom" I wonder where his owner is?" I jumped up b/c i knew this was not the norm, and by the time I was at the front door, "Tom" had began to maul the 25lb runt from across the street. I am not even awake, hungover like a **** and I hear the most blood-curldling scream come from this puppy. I could have counted the number of times I had been around "Tom" on one hand but my instincts kicked in. As my girlfriend broke down in front of me and my neighbor in shambles I jumped in and grabbed "Tom" with two hands by the skin on his back and threw him as far as I could. At this point it would have been very easy for him to barrel role into me as I grabbed him but he didn't even flinch. "Tom" covered that eight feet distance in the blink of an eye and was on top of that puppy again, this time going for the head. This time I jumped in and snatched up "Tom" and carried him into the house to avoid further such attacks. The puppy survived losing an eye, but being so little grew up a healthy normal life. We had discovered that "Tom" had hopped the 6ft privacy fence surrounding their yard only to roam the neighborhood and do what he had been taught to do-attack dogs.

I am firmly against dog fighting, especially after witnessing such a horrifying incident first hand. And believe you me I censored most of the blood and gore (how do you think that dog lost its eye?).

The thing is my dogs are my children. I treated them like my children. They are like toddlers from start to beginning. You cannot expect things not to happen, you have to plan for them not to. That means training, not leaving things around. I don't got to dog parks anymore b/c my male was attack by a St. Bernard and now he is very leary of those situations as am I.

There is not a universal answer here but I wanted to share my view.

[Mickalino]

What in the hell are you arguing, then? All you've made is drive-by comments without once making a solid case for whatever it is that you actually believe.

I've been wondering the same thing about you guys - what are you all trying to argue, other than to continue with "it's not the dog's fault" ?

I get it - you don't believe it's the dog's fault.

But continuing to proclaim that, doesn't help the problem.

So what do you propose we do about the deaths that continue to result from them ?

[GoSkins561]

Neck bone, Tom the pit snappedd and basically was next to impossible to stop?

This is exactly my problem with Pits, they are to strong, and when they attack, unlike most dogs, they can easily kill if not severely injure most humans.

[GoSkins561]

I've been wondering the same thing about you guys - what are you all trying to argue, other than to continue with "it's not the dog's fault" ?

I get it - you don't believe it's the dog's fault.

But continuing to proclaim that, doesn't help the problem.

So what do you propose we do about the deaths that continue to result from them ?

Blame the left wing media agenda and it will all go away.

[ljs]

In your view was the police officer part of the 1% or the 99%?

if you can't secure your dog- then there is an issue.

When my dog dug out under the fence once and got out- my fault, I own that. Same should go for anyone whose dog runs loose, for whatever reason. Thankfully when my Pit dug out of the fence and took off- a lady found her in the middle of a main road (late at night, not much traffic). She opened the door and my dog jumped right into her car- licking her. No attack, just kisses. When I tracked her down the next day and we met up- my dog wasn't sure she wanted to come back home, lol...and the lady was all ready to keep her. However, if my dog did something bad when she was out- it would have been my total responsibility.

[Heisenberg]

I've been wondering the same thing about you guys - what are you all trying to argue, other than to continue with "it's not the dog's fault" ?

I get it - you don't believe it's the dog's fault.

But continuing to proclaim that, doesn't help the problem.

So what do you propose we do about the deaths that continue to result from them ?

Many of us have said it multiple times.

Better ownership - whether it requires *gasp* regulation or whatever it needs to be done.

Better breeding - see above.

You're going to have more problems with all breeds of dogs until you address the top two up there.

Also, keep cracking down on illegal dogfighting rings would help as there would be less demand for aggressive lines of the breed.

These things have been said multiple times in the thread but you just choose to ignore them.

[InsaneBoost]

Sure you can blame the owner but well treated family pets sometimes go nuts and, let's be clear, these breeds of dogs were created for the purpose of attacking and maiming.

I am often approached aggressively by dogs while minding my own business running in a public park. Sometimes the dog owners are apologetic but most often their first reaction is to proclaim that the dog "doesn't normally behave like this". I don't give a **** about what the dog normally does. The owners usually get offended when I request that they keep their ****ing dog under control. In their view it's excusable to threaten someone with an animal but not to have some one swear at them as a result.

Dog owners often refuse to accept responsibility too when their animal attacks. My wife was bitten by a dog while running and the owners ran away with the dog leaving her bleeding. Another runner I know who was bitten actually had the dog owner claim that the runner must have behaved in a threatening manner.

So to dog owners out there, I'll decide what threatening behavior is and next time I experience it from your dog the knife on my key chain will be employed.

I would consider them idiots with dogs, not dog owners. I hope you understand what I mean.

[Heisenberg]

Neck bone, Tom the pit snappedd and basically was next to impossible to stop?

This is exactly my problem with Pits, they are to strong, and when they attack, unlike most dogs, they can easily kill if not severely injure most humans.

Based on the story - I wouldnt say he "snapped". He was bred and trained to be a fighter and that's what he did.

It's no myth that pit bulls ignore pain when their mind is intent on performing a particular task. (Attacking or something else)

You can easily say the same thing about Rotts, German Shepherds, Dobermans, Mastiffs, and the rest.

[Mickalino]

Many of us have said it multiple times.

Better ownership - whether it requires *gasp* regulation or whatever it needs to be done.

Better breeding - see above.

You're going to have more problems with all breeds of dogs until you address the top two up there.

Also, keep cracking down on illegal dogfighting rings would help as there would be less demand for aggressive lines of the breed.

These things have been said multiple times in the thread but you just choose to ignore them.

I'm not ignoring anything - but your response is insufficient.

It's obvious there needs to be better ownership and breeding, but how is that going to be enforced ?

There needs to be a legal intervention, beyond a few people casually standing on the sidelines, just saying "Oh, those people just need to be better dog owners."

That won't change a thing. Meanwhile people are dying.

[Corcaigh]

Nope it's certainly not too much to ask. But if it happens frequently enough, do something else.

Why? How about the owners control their dogs?

Come on, put the situation in persepective.

Runners are regularly attacked by dogs. My wife needed stitches after her attack. And you want to claim that it's on the runners to do something else. No-one has the right to own an animal that attacks others.

Again, if you don't want to have to carry mace of be fearful for your safety on a jog....jog somewhere else. Simple as that. Otherwise, man up and don't be so nancyfied everytime a dog comes around. But to insist on using the park, only to whine about what you have to up with when you use it, is absurd and bullheaded.

Geez, what is it people don't get? Dogs are ANIMALS with instincts that tie back to their ancestors prior to the domestication of canines.

I'm not fearful. If anything my forcefull reaction is to create some fear in the dog owner. Maybe they'lll keep out of the park where the crazy aggressive runner goes.

If I need to disable or kill their uncontrolled animal, then so be it.

[Mickalino]

The overexaggerating was to make a point.

Oh, so it's okay for you to "overexaggerate" by grossly distorting what I say, and put words in my mouth, just to "make a point", but yet, when I use a harmless Muslim situation as an ANALOGY to make it a point, you consider it stupid and anti-Muslim ?

Once you explain how an average of 2.5 deaths per year is a "huge dilemma" then I will try to figure out what major steps can be taken to solve this problem. Until then, I will contend that 99% of dogs that attack with intent to harm have irresponsible owners and/or extremely bad breeding lines

How about explain where you get your 2.5 deaths per year from ?

Statistics show that between January 2006 and September 2008, pit bulls have killed 46 Americans.

That's a LOT more than 2.5 deaths per year.

And in 2008, 65% of human fatalities from dogs, were by pit bulls.

And you're also ignoring the attacks that don't result in death.

Are we to not care about those ?

During that time, about 736,460 cases of pit bull attacks resulted in emergency room treatment.

That's a huge dilemna that you are ignoring.

[jnhay]

During that time, about 736,460 cases of pit bull attacks resulted in emergency room treatment.

That's a huge dilemna that you are ignoring.

That's a made up number. It may sound harsh, but that's also a minuscule amount of deaths.

[Mickalino]

http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pitbull-myths.htm

Pit bull myths ::

The black and white debate, "It's the owner, not the breed," has caused the pit bull problem to grow into a 25-year old problem. In 1987, Sports Illustrated wrote a cover story that can still be written today.

"The horror stories involving pit bulls are voluminous. Recent tragedies include the death of two-year-old James Soto, who was mauled in Morgan Hill, Calif., on June 13th by a neighbor's pit bull rendering the child "unrecognizable as a human being."1

1. "It's the owner not the breed"

Poor ownership of a pit bull may exacerbate aggressive tendencies, but the pit bull is still an innately aggressive breed. Pit bulls have been selectively bred since the 1800s for the purposes of fighting and continue to be bred for fighting today. US courts agree that the following breed characteristics of pit bulls are not in dispute: robust strength, unpredictability, tenaciousness (the refusal to give up a fight) and high pain tolerance.2

Perpetuators of this myth also cannot account for the many instances in which responsible pit bull owners are victimized by their dogs. In 2007, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 60% of attacks that led to fatality. Half of these attacks involved a family member and the family pit bull.3

[Heisenberg]

Oh, so it's okay for you to "overexaggerate" by grossly distorting what I say, and put words in my mouth, just to "make a point", but yet, when I use a simple harmless Muslim situation as an ANALOGY to make it a point, you consider it stupid and anti-Muslim ?

How about explain where you get your 2.5 deaths per year from ?

Statistics show that between January 2006 and September 2008, pit bulls have killed 46 Americans.

That's a LOT more than 2.5 deaths per year.

And in 2008, 65% of human fatalities from dogs, were by pit bulls.

And you're also ignoring the attacks that don't result in death.

Are we to not care about those ?

During that time, about 736,460 cases of pit bull attacks resulted in emergency room treatment.

That's a huge dilemna that you are ignoring.

http://www.la-spca.org/dedication/talk/t_judge.htm

Also, the fact that you can't see the stupidity in your Muslim statement and then wonder why someone would consider it "anti-Muslim" is the type of ignorance I can't even argue against.

Also, where are you getting those stats from?

[Mickalino]

http://www.la-spca.org/dedication/talk/t_judge.htm

Also, the fact that you can't see the stupidity in your Muslim statement and then wonder why someone would consider it "anti-Muslim" is the type of ignorance I can't even argue against.

You can't argue because you have no argument.

All I keep hearing is "stupid, stupid, stupid"